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New guns - not steel proofed?


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Whilst looking at new shotguns I noticed Yildiz selling a 12 bore specifically proofed for steel. Although it's not something I've thought much about I didn't realise than most new guns are not actually steel proofed (i.e. proofed for high performance steel). Is this correct?

If so, seems a little strange considering the move away from lead (and the often quoted fact other countries have stopped using lead). I am aware of the guidance for using steel in a non-steel proof gun but just assumed all brand new guns would be steel proofed.

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1) The UK marketplace is tiny. That in other countries outside the UK and EU is much larger.

2) In those countries they don't shoot "big bag" driven days which try to justify the excessive head of game shot by claiming all that is shot enters the food chain.

3) In those same countries they have organisations that don't organisations such as BASC that sell their members down the river to justify 2) above.

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5 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

1) The UK marketplace is tiny. That in other countries outside the UK and EU is much larger.

2) In those countries they don't shoot "big bag" driven days which try to justify the excessive head of game shot by claiming all that is shot enters the food chain.

3) In those same countries they have organisations that don't organisations such as BASC that sell their members down the river to justify 2) above.

Well said and straight to the point re No 2!! Appalling lack of empathy with it's members. 

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44 minutes ago, Windswept said:

Whilst looking at new shotguns I noticed Yildiz selling a 12 bore specifically proofed for steel. Although it's not something I've thought much about I didn't realise than most new guns are not actually steel proofed (i.e. proofed for high performance steel). Is this correct?

If so, seems a little strange considering the move away from lead (and the often quoted fact other countries have stopped using lead). I am aware of the guidance for using steel in a non-steel proof gun but just assumed all brand new guns would be steel proofed.

I think you would find that there are very few guns not steel proofed. All the big mane guns certainly are

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13 minutes ago, Stimo22 said:

I think you would find that there are very few guns not steel proofed. All the big mane guns certainly are

Thanks for the clarification. Looking again the the Yildiz is seems to be a steel action rather than alloy which has confused things.

So most new guns should be able to handle high performance steel, subject to the right choke?

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5 minutes ago, Windswept said:

Thanks for the clarification. Looking again the the Yildiz is seems to be a steel action rather than alloy which has confused things.

So most new guns should be able to handle high performance steel, subject to the right choke?

Tight factory bored fixed chokes can throw a wobbly here as did my Chapuis with one barrel at 3/4.

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35 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

 

2) In those countries they don't shoot "big bag" driven days which try to justify the excessive head of game shot by claiming all that is shot enters the food chain.

 

Here we go again! 
So tell me, in your opinion.

1. What is a ‘big bag? 
2. What is an ‘excessive head of game shot’? 
3. Why would shooters need to justify shooting game?

4. If these birds don’t enter the food chain, where do they go?

10 minutes ago, Windswept said:

 

So most new guns should be able to handle high performance steel, subject to the right choke?

Yes, just like most older guns. 

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1 hour ago, Windswept said:

Whilst looking at new shotguns I noticed Yildiz selling a 12 bore specifically proofed for steel. Although it's not something I've thought much about I didn't realise than most new guns are not actually steel proofed (i.e. proofed for high performance steel). Is this correct?

If so, seems a little strange considering the move away from lead (and the often quoted fact other countries have stopped using lead). I am aware of the guidance for using steel in a non-steel proof gun but just assumed all brand new guns would be steel proofed.

Hello, superior steel shot should only be used in guns with the Fleur de Lys ⚜️ stamp on barrel. Not all new guns are steel proofed and indeed some new fixed choke Mirokus are stamped lead only. Regards

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Hello, I have the light weight Yildiz, steel with alloy sides, and proofed for steel, I would only use the normal steel cartridge and the 28g 7.5s , improved and half, the Yildiz all steel action O/Us should be ok for all steel cartridges, will have a look for the markings eg Fleur de Lys , cheers

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1 hour ago, benbobailey said:

Hello, superior steel shot should only be used in guns with the Fleur de Lys ⚜️ stamp on barrel. Not all new guns are steel proofed and indeed some new fixed choke Mirokus are stamped lead only. Regards

I’ve heard of Mk 60 Mirokus labelled with a sticker stating they are not steel shot proofed, but not of any on which it is stamped ‘lead only’. 

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35 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’ve heard of Mk 60 Mirokus labelled with a sticker stating they are not steel shot proofed, but not of any on which it is stamped ‘lead only’.

My 2 had the stickers on, purely because they were choked Full and 3/4, and despite what the PigeonWatch steel aficionado say Browning DON'T recommend chokes tighter than 1/2. So peeled the stickers off, Teague choked, reproofed for Superior Steel as they have 3" chambers jobs a good un.

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3 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

My 2 had the stickers on, purely because they were choked Full and 3/4, and despite what the PigeonWatch steel aficionado say Browning DON'T recommend chokes tighter than 1/2. So peeled the stickers off, Teague choked, reproofed for Superior Steel as they have 3" chambers jobs a good un.

I have to ask. If Browning don’t recommend chokes tighter than 1/2, why you got it multi choked and steel proofed, rather than just having the chokes opened out to 1/2. 

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55 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’ve heard of Mk 60 Mirokus labelled with a sticker stating they are not steel shot proofed, but not of any on which it is stamped ‘lead only’. 

May only be sticker but definitely states lead shot only. I'm sure I've seen it stamped or told the same.image.png.fe72d070163e72b3f01909ac6a19b6b4.png

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1 minute ago, benbobailey said:

May only be sticker but definitely states lead shot only. I'm sure I've seen it stamped or told the same.image.png.fe72d070163e72b3f01909ac6a19b6b4.png

Well there you go. When the sticker comes off who’s to know? Maybe they aren’t too sure themselves! 🙂

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10 minutes ago, Scully said:

I have to ask. If Browning don’t recommend chokes tighter than 1/2, why you got it multi choked and steel proofed, rather than just having the chokes opened out to 1/2. 

I do go clay shooting now and again and prefer Full and 3/4 but can now be anything i like and hoprfully make them more saleable and as stated by yoursellf will need HP steel for long birds over 45yrd

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5 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

I do go clay shooting now and again and prefer Full and 3/4 but can now be anything i like and hoprfully make them more saleable and as stated by yoursellf will need HP steel for long birds over 45yrd

Fair enough, although I can’t recall saying you need HP steel for birds over 45yds. 

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21 minutes ago, Scully said:

Well there you go. When the sticker comes off who’s to know? Maybe they aren’t too sure themselves! 🙂

The manufacturer will know if there’s a issue caused by using steel shot there back is covered 

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22 minutes ago, benbobailey said:

May only be sticker but definitely states lead shot only. I'm sure I've seen it stamped or told the same.image.png.fe72d070163e72b3f01909ac6a19b6b4.png

Right you made me go and look and nowhere is it stamped lead shot only in either gun but on the righthand side of the chamber it says Special Steel chamber  2 3/4" and 3"

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2 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

The manufacturer will know if there’s a issue caused by using steel shot there back is covered 

Possibly. Depends what the issue is I suppose, and if they can tell it was caused by steel. 
It also depends if that sticker stays on for the life of the gun. Buyer beware! 🙂

2 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

Right you made me go and look and nowhere is it stamped lead shot only in either gun but on the righthand side of the chamber it says Special Steel chamber  2 3/4" and 3"

I’m not too sure what that means, but that in itself certainly doesn’t mean it’s steel shot proofed, unless it’s the gun you’ve had proofed for steel of course, and carries a fleur de lys. 

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3 hours ago, 8 shot said:

My 2 had the stickers on, purely because they were choked Full and 3/4, and despite what the PigeonWatch steel aficionado say Browning DON'T recommend chokes tighter than 1/2. So peeled the stickers off, Teague choked, reproofed for Superior Steel as they have 3" chambers jobs a good un.

 

So before it was proofed for superior steel it was dangeorus, but afterwards it was perfectly safe and fine... except it was the same gun before and after ... and they did nothing to the gun's construction to make it pass the test...

 

Could have saved a lot of money if you'd just used it as it was... 

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bought a Mossberg 535  sent through proof    here   standard steel as cheaper  cost to proof to imprter             however  in america 3.5"  high pressure high capacity shot charge   can be used in said gun        i load to over the pond steel recipes   sami  its chamber  pressure    go as fast as you like       cip is speed  restricted  not pressure   however using some lead powders the pressure is right up there      have other 3.5" guns  stamped fdl    or  superior steel           my older guns  are lead only       some modern guns  as many older guns     forcing cone   and choke taper is not at the right angle for steel        for the 535  i have much tighter than lead full   extended Carlson full choke steel compatible   a long taper and all constriction in the choke  is way passed the barrel  in the extended bit if it goes wrong a new choke needed no barrel damage  

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7 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

So before it was proofed for superior steel it was dangeorus, but afterwards it was perfectly safe and fine... except it was the same gun before and after ... and they did nothing to the gun's construction to make it pass the test...

You forget to factor in other countries rules as it's a world wide marketplace. Here in Sweden we do not need to proof any gun so why waste the money on doing it if it's sold here?

/Markus

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7 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

So before it was proofed for superior steel it was dangeorus, but afterwards it was perfectly safe and fine... except it was the same gun before and after ... and they did nothing to the gun's construction to make it pass the test...

 

Could have saved a lot of money if you'd just used it as it was... 

This is the point I’ve been trying to get across. Your nitro proofed guns can quite safely shoot steel. By all means have your gun steel shot proofed if you like, it can only enhance its resale value, but the fact people can and do have their nitro proofed guns steel shot proofed, means there is no need. 

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I'm aware of the arguments about what an owner can put through their gun at their own risk and didn't want to cover that old ground again.

What surprised me was the fact that is still seems not all new guns sold are guaranteed to handle all the steel cartridges in the UK. I suppose I can see why a clay gun doesn't need to handle large shot, I just assumed all new guns would be able to pass the higher proof pressures.

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