Have your say on a possible fur trade ban

[Saltings]

23 hours ago, Old farrier said:

But ok for eggs chicken salmon?

remembering that most food animals are kept in field or barn with supplementary feeding technically a cage 

along  with our kennelled dogs 

where do we stop 

far to many rules being made to generate votes 

we can all make a decision not to buy something thereby reducing the demand and no more sales equals no more business 

 

i am a farmers son we never did intensive anything   and i agree with you    we produced quality not quantity  some 40 + years ago           pissy pork   yellow eggs    rubber meat    flavourless chicken   rotten veg in two days  the big four have made  **** produce    acceptable   not to mention fish farmed where ever  fish called Scottish inc Aberdeen angus beef  they are a rare breed       we dont have that many in the country its  BS          i hunt     i kill    but i would not inflect suffering  on  anything          or want a substandard product imported  from overseas packaged in norfilk  for xmas  with the red tractor symbol               a farmers market local produce seasonal produce  with foraging or an allotment you can live like a king       wool is a bi product  leather the same   animals are kept for their value     and a lot of ground cant support anything other than animal    the soil is not good enough      and scar felt pike does not lend itself to arable produce   so farmers have to diversify to live         criticise   when you live the life   and walk in their shoes        two pay checks a year    **** or bust      when you get one every week or month       a regular  pay check  determines a lot you can have holidays  meals out  have jollies follow the football overseas           this cant be done on a farm       family security  food and education        if i am wrong and  im not      try farming try working with supermarkets         i lived the life inc subsistence living      a regular paycheck is a godsend       farmers have to diversified a couple of years ago bambi farming / ostrage  farming / alpaca farming /     milk produced for less than cost    as prics held down to 11p a litre      the butter  the cream taken off     and low fat milk £1.30 for 2 pints about a liter    we called  white water  worth nout       buttermilk had a value we made bread with it  soda bread / brown bread           dont knock any food supplier  blame the supermarkets      any Asian community  will sell meat or veg  fresh cheaper  than any supermarket  and home grown          i now shop there for a better produce quality  most of the lamb is irish   veg home grown          if i have gone off on one forgive me  i like good food   i dont like someone ******* on my back and tell me im sweating   green foods from overseas under a heat lamp for colour and in the bin within two days rotten 40years ago we didnt have this problem   food lasted weeks without fridge or freeser we had neither 

Edited June 14, 2021 by Saltings

[islandgun]

15 hours ago, Saltings said:

i am a farmers son we never did intensive anything   and i agree with you    we produced quality not quantity  some 40 + years ago           y pork   yellow eggs    rubber meat    flavourless chicken   rotten veg in two days  the big four have made  **** produce    acceptable   not to mention fish farmed where ever  fish called Scottish inc Aberdeen angus beef  they are a rare breed       we dont have that many in the country its  BS          i hunt     i kill    but i would not inflect suffering  on  anything          or want a substandard product imported  from overseas packaged in norfilk  for xmas  with the red tractor symbol               a farmers market local produce seasonal produce  with foraging or an allotment you can live like a king       wool is a bi product  leather the same   animals are kept for their value     and a lot of ground cant support anything other than animal    the soil is not good enough      and scar felt pike does not lend itself to arable produce   so farmers have to diversify to live         criticise   when you live the life   and walk in their shoes        two pay checks a year    **** or bust      when you get one every week or month       a regular  pay check  determines a lot you can have holidays  meals out  have jollies follow the football overseas           this cant be done on a farm       family security  food and education        if i am wrong and  im not      try farming try working with supermarkets         i lived the life inc subsistence living      a regular paycheck is a godsend       farmers have to diversified a couple of years ago bambi farming / ostrage  farming / alpaca farming /     milk produced for less than cost    as prics held down to 11p a litre      the butter  the cream taken off     and low fat milk £1.30 for 2 pints about a liter    we called  white water  worth nout       buttermilk had a value we made bread with it  soda bread / brown bread           dont knock any food supplier  blame the supermarkets      any Asian community  will sell meat or veg  fresh cheaper  than any supermarket  and home grown          i now shop there for a better produce quality  most of the lamb is irish   veg home grown          if i have gone off on one forgive me  i like good food   i dont like someone ******* on my back and tell me im sweating   green foods from overseas under a heat lamp for colour and in the bin within two days rotten 40years ago we didnt have this problem   food lasted weeks without fridge or freeser we had neither 

Very true

[12gauge82]

15 hours ago, Saltings said:

i am a farmers son we never did intensive anything   and i agree with you    we produced quality not quantity  some 40 + years ago           ork   yellow eggs    rubber meat    flavourless chicken   rotten veg in two days  the big four have made  **** produce    acceptable   not to mention fish farmed where ever  fish called Scottish inc Aberdeen angus beef  they are a rare breed       we dont have that many in the country its  BS          i hunt     i kill    but i would not inflect suffering  on  anything          or want a substandard product imported  from overseas packaged in norfilk  for xmas  with the red tractor symbol               a farmers market local produce seasonal produce  with foraging or an allotment you can live like a king       wool is a bi product  leather the same   animals are kept for their value     and a lot of ground cant support anything other than animal    the soil is not good enough      and scar felt pike does not lend itself to arable produce   so farmers have to diversify to live         criticise   when you live the life   and walk in their shoes        two pay checks a year    **** or bust      when you get one every week or month       a regular  pay check  determines a lot you can have holidays  meals out  have jollies follow the football overseas           this cant be done on a farm       family security  food and education        if i am wrong and  im not      try farming try working with supermarkets         i lived the life inc subsistence living      a regular paycheck is a godsend       farmers have to diversified a couple of years ago bambi farming / ostrage  farming / alpaca farming /     milk produced for less than cost    as prics held down to 11p a litre      the butter  the cream taken off     and low fat milk £1.30 for 2 pints about a liter    we called  white water  worth nout       buttermilk had a value we made bread with it  soda bread / brown bread           dont knock any food supplier  blame the supermarkets      any Asian community  will sell meat or veg  fresh cheaper  than any supermarket  and home grown          i now shop there for a better produce quality  most of the lamb is irish   veg home grown          if i have gone off on one forgive me  i like good food   i dont like someone ******* on my back and tell me im sweating   green foods from overseas under a heat lamp for colour and in the bin within two days rotten 40years ago we didnt have this problem   food lasted weeks without fridge or freeser we had neither 

Good post. 

[Old farrier]

15 hours ago, Saltings said:

i am a farmers son we never did intensive anything   and i agree with you    we produced quality not quantity  some 40 + years ago           pork   yellow eggs    rubber meat    flavourless chicken   rotten veg in two days  the big four have made  **** produce    acceptable   not to mention fish farmed where ever  fish called Scottish inc Aberdeen angus beef  they are a rare breed       we dont have that many in the country its  BS          i hunt     i kill    but i would not inflect suffering  on  anything          or want a substandard product imported  from overseas packaged in norfilk  for xmas  with the red tractor symbol               a farmers market local produce seasonal produce  with foraging or an allotment you can live like a king       wool is a bi product  leather the same   animals are kept for their value     and a lot of ground cant support anything other than animal    the soil is not good enough      and scar felt pike does not lend itself to arable produce   so farmers have to diversify to live         criticise   when you live the life   and walk in their shoes        two pay checks a year    **** or bust      when you get one every week or month       a regular  pay check  determines a lot you can have holidays  meals out  have jollies follow the football overseas           this cant be done on a farm       family security  food and education        if i am wrong and  im not      try farming try working with supermarkets         i lived the life inc subsistence living      a regular paycheck is a godsend       farmers have to diversified a couple of years ago bambi farming / ostrage  farming / alpaca farming /     milk produced for less than cost    as prics held down to 11p a litre      the butter  the cream taken off     and low fat milk £1.30 for 2 pints about a liter    we called  white water  worth nout       buttermilk had a value we made bread with it  soda bread / brown bread           dont knock any food supplier  blame the supermarkets      any Asian community  will sell meat or veg  fresh cheaper  than any supermarket  and home grown          i now shop there for a better produce quality  most of the lamb is irish   veg home grown          if i have gone off on one forgive me  i like good food   i dont like someone ******* on my back and tell me im sweating   green foods from overseas under a heat lamp for colour and in the bin within two days rotten 40years ago we didnt have this problem   food lasted weeks without fridge or freeser we had neither 

I’m also a farmers sone and still try and produce good quality food so I do know 

however the ant brigades arnt and trying not to be looking at this from one side I feel as soon as they ban rearing for fur they will keep on going it’s a roller coaster 

 

[bruno22rf]

Rearing for food is one thing and is justifiably essential ,farming for fashion is another and, in my mind and in this age, is indefensable.

[Yellow Bear]

5 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

Rearing for food is one thing and is justifiably essential ,farming for fashion is another and, in my mind and in this age, is indefensible.

This exactly

[Scully]

1 hour ago, bruno22rf said:

Rearing for food is one thing and is justifiably essential ,farming for fashion is another and, in my mind and in this age, is indefensable.

I understand where you’re coming from, and agree, but killing for entertainment is in the same catergory these days. 

[bruno22rf]

19 minutes ago, Scully said:

I understand where you’re coming from, and agree, but killing for entertainment is in the same catergory these days. 

As time goes on the way forward is surely to incorporate Game into the food chain, BTW, I dont kill for entertainment, never have nor will. Game could surely be introduced into various foodstuffs and is healthy additive to Mince etc, we need to educate not legislate but IMHO putting our weight behind the Fur trade is suicidal.

[Scully]

34 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

As time goes on the way forward is surely to incorporate Game into the food chain, BTW, I dont kill for entertainment, never have nor will. Game could surely be introduced into various foodstuffs and is healthy additive to Mince etc, we need to educate not legislate but IMHO putting our weight behind the Fur trade is suicidal.

Unless you’re a professional pest controller or you do your own pest control on your own land, you’re killing for entertainment. 

[clangerman]

if it ever becomes entertainment over making them land i will seek medical help unless instructed to hit them hard more are allowed to fly on than i shoot 

[Scully]

13 minutes ago, clangerman said:

if it ever becomes entertainment over making them land i will seek medical help unless instructed to hit them hard more are allowed to fly on than i shoot 

Oh please! Are you a professional pest controller? Do you just shoot pests on your own land? If you’ve answered no to either of these questions then you’re shooting for entertainment, and if you’re ‘allowing’ any to fly on then it’s not pest control either. 
Are you a professional pest controller? 

[clangerman]

9 minutes ago, Scully said:

Oh please! Are you a professional pest controller? Do you just shoot pests on your own land? If you’ve answered no to either of these questions then you’re shooting for entertainment, and if you’re ‘allowing’ any to fly on then it’s not pest control either. 
Are you a professional pest controller? 

making them land is my thing not shooting them or i would not be allowing birds to fly on if killing birds becomes the entertainment part will find another hobby even my shooting partner does not see it as entertainment and he shoots every pigeon coming in range if it’s a case of keeping them of 

[Scully]

6 minutes ago, clangerman said:

making them land is my thing not shooting them or i would not be allowing birds to fly on if killing birds becomes the entertainment part will find another hobby even my shooting partner does not see it as entertainment and he shoots every pigeon coming in range if it’s a case of keeping them of 

Are you a professional pest controller? 

[bruno22rf]

2 hours ago, Scully said:

Unless you’re a professional pest controller or you do your own pest control on your own land, you’re killing for entertainment. 

Wrong, I shoot vermin on parkland that belongs to a charity, I get no pleasure whatsoever from the act of killing, the "entertainment" (I would say challenge) is in being able to outwit my quarry and then despatch it without it ever knowing I was there.TBH, some of my best days out shooting I have not fired a shot.

[Scully]

7 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

Wrong, I shoot vermin on parkland that belongs to a charity, I get no pleasure whatsoever from the act of killing, the "entertainment" (I would say challenge) is in being able to outwit my quarry and then despatch it without it ever knowing I was there.TBH, some of my best days out shooting I have not fired a shot.

Unless you’re a professional pest controller you’re doing it for your own entertainment. 
I get no pleasure from actually killing either, but if I didn’t enjoy shooting live quarry then I wouldn’t do it, and I really really do enjoy it, it’s my passion. 
You can deny it all you like, but if you weren’t enjoying yourself then you wouldn’t do it. None of us would. 

[islandgun]

5 hours ago, Scully said:

Unless you’re a professional pest controller you’re doing it for your own entertainment. 
I get no pleasure from actually killing either, but if I didn’t enjoy shooting live quarry then I wouldn’t do it, and I really really do enjoy it, it’s my passion. 
You can deny it all you like, but if you weren’t enjoying yourself then you wouldn’t do it. None of us would. 

Hard to disagree that we all find some level of enjoyment from shooting, how many I wonder feel compelled in some way to shoot, its could be in their blood hunter gatherer/ forager,  a desire to collect meat/food without a visit to the butcher. in my case i found myself 20 odd years ago surrounded by large numbers of wild geese and rabbits and restart a pastime i enjoyed as a youth [also then surrounded by large numbers of pigeon] given that i am surrounded by Geese and Rabbits it seemed churlish to ignore this wild harvest given my belief that wild meat is preferable to factory farming [hen e.g] I also raise meat and catch fish for my own table and have built a business on serving others with this wild meat/fish harvest. however that doesn't explain why i roam the hills with my spaniel to shoot the occasional woodcock or wait for hours beside a freezing splash at night for a rare duck. both of those i do because i enjoy it.........for many many reasons 

Edited June 14, 2021 by islandgun

[Benthejockey]

1 hour ago, islandgun said:

Hard to disagree that we all find some level of enjoyment from shooting, how many I wonder feel compelled in some way to shoot, its could be in their blood hunter gatherer/ forager,  a desire to collect meat/food without a visit to the butcher. in my case i found myself 20 odd years ago surrounded by large numbers of wild geese and rabbits and restart a pastime i enjoyed as a youth [also then surrounded by large numbers of pigeon] given that i am surrounded by Geese and Rabbits it seemed churlish to ignore this wild harvest given my belief that wild meat is preferable to factory farming [hen e.g] I also raise meat and fish for my own table and have built a business on serving others with this wild meat/fish harvest. however that doesn't explain why i roam the hills with my spaniel to shoot the occasional woodcock or wait for hours beside a freezing splash at night for a rare duck. both of those i do because i enjoy it.........for many many reasons 

Definitely. I dont do anything I don't enjoy on the whole and I thoroughly enjoy shooting. The whole process from start to finish. I shoot for pest control and I shoot to fill the freezer, we live on venison and lamb, occasionally an unlucky duck, goose, rabbit or hare.

It's the same with the home kill lambs I do, I take huge pride in the fact I've  pulled out or witnessed the birth of these little slimy *******, looked after and reared them to weight and then walked them into my shed, given them a handful of feed and they're dead before they've even finished their first mouthful oblivious to everything. And to see them on the hook in my big fridge and then butchered makes them taste even sweeter. 

 

[Vince Green]

Shooting for entertainment is ££££ and the farmers aren't shy.

I know a loose group of friends, six to maybe ten at my North London club who venture out thinking nothing of £200 each for a day out on pigeons. £3-400 for wildfowling or thousands for stalking in Scotland.

Geese in Denmark, Boar in Germany, machine guns in Bulgaria. All acompanied by boozy nights in the hotels and a few ladies of the night.

Frankly I'm just jealous 

[12gauge82]

4 hours ago, islandgun said:

Hard to disagree that we all find some level of enjoyment from shooting, how many I wonder feel compelled in some way to shoot, its could be in their blood hunter gatherer/ forager,  a desire to collect meat/food without a visit to the butcher. in my case i found myself 20 odd years ago surrounded by large numbers of wild geese and rabbits and restart a pastime i enjoyed as a youth [also then surrounded by large numbers of pigeon] given that i am surrounded by Geese and Rabbits it seemed churlish to ignore this wild harvest given my belief that wild meat is preferable to factory farming [hen e.g] I also raise meat and catch fish for my own table and have built a business on serving others with this wild meat/fish harvest. however that doesn't explain why i roam the hills with my spaniel to shoot the occasional woodcock or wait for hours beside a freezing splash at night for a rare duck. both of those i do because i enjoy it.........for many many reasons 

What Scully says is right. I enjoy the hunt and the excuse it gives me to be in nature. It would be very silly of any of us to deny we do what we do and enjoyment not being one of them. 

On a tangent, I have found myself shooting less and less the older I've got and I only shoot something that genuinely needs shooting these days. I prefer working my dogs for other people if I'm honest, maybe I'm just getting soft in my old age. 

[joejoe]

I do like my possum fur hat I bought on the Ray Mears website. Wear it for dog walking and for most things in the winter. It’s warm, light rain resistant  but breaths (too well if it’s windy and cold). Might get another before anything comes in. Can’t see the difference between wool and leather.
 

On my second now as my Labrador puppy at the time decided to make my original in to a scarf by chewing the top off.  That is still used too. 
 

[steve s×s]

It's yet again someone imposing their will on others and not letting individuals choose, the animals went in two by two so they could breed and be used for protein and Clothing, and we were all created equal But some are more equal than others 😇