Hospital in Texas sacks staff who wouldn't take the jab

[henry d]

37 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Why will you be so glad to see the back of me for having a different view anyway? Would be rather boring if we all agreed.....In other words: Do you feel we've undergone a fundamental change in society as a result of this past 14months?

I just thought you wanted out of the UK, possibly because of the "establishment" and whatever they have done and nothing to do with your views at all.

Of course we have had change, but culture always eats strategy for breakfast, we will go back to something like we had before, but never exactly the same, apologies for another one liner but the past is a different country, they do different things there, it has always been so.

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, henry d said:

Of course we have had change, but culture always eats strategy for breakfast, we will go back to something like we had before, but never exactly the same, apologies for another one liner but the past is a different country, they do different things there, it has always been so.

“To the future or to the past, to a time when thought is free, when men are different from one another and do not live alone—to a time when truth exists and what is done cannot be undone: From the age of uniformity, from the age of solitude, from the age of Big Brother, from the age of doublethink—greetings!”

The general idea of a society or cultures success, is that it moves forward.

Forward as in more open, free and enlightened.

This cannot happen in the case of covid and the 'new normal' , as the disease and its effects are based on what are in effect, lies.
Making everyone have a vaccine, under pain of retribution is no way for a society to move forward.
The funny thing is , these fears of compulsory vaccinations have been around since the first mention of them, and how 'they' said they wouldnt be compulsory , BUT , you may not be able to do 'certain things' if you dont have them.

Dont get me wrong , I dont fear the jab , Ive had them, but making life difficult , or impossible , if you choose not to is a very dangerous precedent.
There are now countries threatening , amongst other punishments , jail , dismissal , and restricting healthcare.
Our own government are talking about letting double jabbers swerve isolation on return from foreign travel.

How long before general segregation for non vaxxers ?
More importantly , how will we mark these social lepers, and seeing as many non vaxxers are of ethnically diverse groups, how will they avoid the dreaded R word ?

[Vince Green]

6 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

 

If I could get a green card, I'd be off this Island like a shot, 

On what basis would you be applying for a green card? its very hard to get these days but I wouldn't swap here for life over there. 

[udderlyoffroad]

On 25/06/2021 at 16:43, Vince Green said:

On what basis would you be applying for a green card?

Being devilishly handsome and an asset to the community.

Modest too.

On 25/06/2021 at 16:43, Vince Green said:

but I wouldn't swap here for life over there. 

Having lived and worked in other countries, I'm very wary of the grass is always greener syndrome, as well as this weird phenomena expats develop about the old country, best described as the diametric opposite of rose-tinted spectacles.

But at this point, I'm beginning to wonder about what 'over here' you'd be giving up?  

Obviously, it's a vast country, and the experience of someone living in, say, Southern California is completely different to someone in the Carolinas.

But from the insights I have to my brother's life in Arizona, it's clear he lives an objectively better life, not least of which is the freedom to ***** his own risk with respect to a virus.

 

 

 

 

[Vince Green]

5 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Being devilishly handsome and an asset to the community.

Modest too.

Having lived and worked in other countries, I'm very wary of the grass is always greener syndrome, as well as this weird phenomena expats develop about the old country, best described as the diametric opposite of rose-tinted spectacles.

But at this point, I'm beginning to wonder about what 'over here' you'd be giving up?  

Obviously, it's a vast country, and the experience of someone living in, say, Southern California is completely different to someone in the Carolinas.

But from the insights I have to my brother's life in Arizona, it's clear he lives an objectively better life, not least of which is the freedom to ***** his own risk with respect to a virus.

 

 

 

 

When I lived in Upstate New York everybody used to say how good Canada was 

[udderlyoffroad]

3 hours ago, Vince Green said:

When I lived in Upstate New York everybody used to say how good Canada was 

Grass is greener, eh?

[Vince Green]

38 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Grass is greener, eh?

Well Canada was just across the other side of the lake from where we were, you could almost see it.. People used to cross over to shop. Both ways.

The general view was that the whole setup in Canada was better. Healthcare, education taxes etc.

America can be pretty brutal if you don't have pots of money. Lose your job and you lose your heathcare. then you really are in trouble. People over here have no comprehension, get sick and if you can't pay you will die. People do die of very treatable illnesses simply because they can't pay for treatment. My friend Steve did.

There is little in the way of help. Thats the true reason why so many Americans belong to churches.

 but I could never live there its far too cold in the winter. (and far too hot in summer) alright when you are younger

Edited June 29, 2021 by Vince Green

[udderlyoffroad]

22 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Canada was better but I could never live there its far too cold in the winter. (and far too hot in summer) alright when you are younger

Maybe it's my millennial hedonism, but I quite enjoy the more defined seasons.  And the cold is easier to take as it's far less 'damp cold', though again varies wildly by location in North America.

[Vince Green]

59 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Maybe it's my millennial hedonism, but I quite enjoy the more defined seasons.  And the cold is easier to take as it's far less 'damp cold', though again varies wildly by location in North America.

Oh Bloody Hell, you have never know cold like it. I was shocked first year but you do get to accept it.

[Mice!]

15 hours ago, Vince Green said:

America can be pretty brutal if you don't have pots of money. Lose your job and you lose your heathcare. then you really are in trouble. People over here have no comprehension, get sick and if you can't pay you will die. People do die of very treatable illnesses simply because they can't pay for treatment. My friend Steve did.

That's why comments slating the NHS bug me, America is in some ways an amazing country but nothing like the UK, I wouldn't like to be poor living in the states.

13 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Oh Bloody Hell, you have never know cold like it. I was shocked first year but you do get to accept it.

I always fancied going contracting in Canada,  until guys I spoke to told me how cold it was in winter, the idea of being house bound through winter didn't appeal. 

[12gauge82]

5 minutes ago, Mice! said:

That's why comments slating the NHS bug me, America is in some ways an amazing country but nothing like the UK, I wouldn't like to be poor living in the states.

I always fancied going contracting in Canada,  until guys I spoke to told me how cold it was in winter, the idea of being house bound through winter didn't appeal. 

The nhs is an absolute joke. 

[Mice!]

4 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

The nhs is an absolute joke. 

O look theres one now, I wonder how many people are being treated every day by the NHS,  and knowing you can just turn up without insurance or a fat bank account. 

Covid has obviously disrupted things but normally if you injure yourself its straight to A&E, something more long term then your GP, and you don't think for a minute can I afford to get this checked out. 

[udderlyoffroad]

The NHS vs USA is such a straw-man argument that I shouldn't even bother, but I will anyway, as some people genuinely believe this to be the case.

There is literally nobody advocating for the alternative to the NHS to be the US system.  It's a complete 'Hobson's Choice' to pretend otherwise

There are plenty of other countries, with better healthcare outcomes than us - look a little closer to home: France, Germany, Switzerland, Netherlands - who spend roughly the same or a bit more than the UK per capita.

Frankly, if you have a serious, but treatable illness in the UK it's little more than a lottery as to whether you will survive it.  That is a national disgrace.  NHS dentistry might as well be non-existant.

If you have 20mins or so, have a listen to this on iPlayer Radio, explains the issues quite well.

8 minutes ago, Mice! said:

if you injure yourself its straight to A&E, something more long term then your GP, and you don't think for a minute can I afford to get this checked out. 

GP's are paid just to exist in this country.  The government* turned each practice into a business that has no incentive to actually see or treat patients.  If the USSR had done that, we would mock their 'communist inefficiency' and make jokes about Ukranian tractor production quotas.

In any case, for something 'long term' you should be referred to a specialist not fobbed off with Aspirin for a treatable tumour!

As for A&E's for 'injuring yourself' - that's half the problem.  But let's just agree to add ridiculous wait times in A&E to the list of uniquely British problems shall we?

*Labour government, incidentally, but that's not important right now

 

[12gauge82]

46 minutes ago, Mice! said:

O look theres one now, I wonder how many people are being treated every day by the NHS,  and knowing you can just turn up without insurance or a fat bank account. 

Covid has obviously disrupted things but normally if you injure yourself its straight to A&E, something more long term then your GP, and you don't think for a minute can I afford to get this checked out. 

The nhs is responsible for the death of my best friend who I grew up with since before I could walk, I fully appreciate that you can't know that speaking to a random Internet person so I'm not having a rant at you. It might well irratate you when someone slates it. But I can assure you it angers me when people hold it up as if it's brilliant,because it's not, it's a pile of ****. 

[henry d]

30 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

GP's are paid just to exist in this country.  The government* turned each practice into a business that has no incentive to actually see or treat patients. 

That's pretty poor form, over the past 18 months I've been to a GP practice in both Scotland and England regarding the same issue, both were hugely professional in their treatment of me, their attention to detail regarding personal details online and hard copies, treating me as a person and not just an illness and worked seamlessly with the specialists in hospital.

[Vince Green]

Personally I would prefer the Irish system where charges are made for visits to A&E or GP. Not a big charge just enough to deter the time wasters.

[udderlyoffroad]

I'm not sure what your point is Henry, my point is there's no service level agreement with GP's with respect to actually treating patients.

They get paid whether they see people or not, which has become particularly acute during COVID.

So if you have a practice manager who has the attitude that "This place would run so much better if it weren't for patients" - then so be it, he can get away with that.  Doesn't mean they're all like that, but it's a criminal waste of public money that such a thing is countenanced.

Either you have GP's operating as proper businesses, in which case, see no patients, make no money, or you have them as the first point-of-contact for a massive lumbering health system, but they then are directly answerable to the DoH. 

Our current system (negotiated by the new labour Government at the end of the 90s) does neither.  The worst of all worlds.

The fact that your experience is positive doesn't fix the systemic issue that causes it to fail vast swathes of other less fortunate people.

 

[udderlyoffroad]

5 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Personally I would prefer the Irish system where charges are made for visits to A&E or GP. Not a big charge just enough to deter the time wasters.

Absolutely, and if you're there because of drug or alcohol related issues, expect the full bill in the post.

Would sort out a lot of the A&E capacity problems in fairly short order.

Also, you pay the first £2k of your maternity costs, regardless of income, in advance.  Contraception is free.  Can't find/save up 2k with say 6months notice?  Tough, you can't afford kids.

[Mice!]

40 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

The nhs is responsible for the death of my best friend who I grew up with since before I could walk, I fully appreciate that you can't know that speaking to a random Internet person so I'm not having a rant at you. It might well irratate you when someone slates it. But I can assure you it angers me when people hold it up as if it's brilliant,because it's not, it's a pile of ****. 

Obviously I couldn't but I can understand your point of view after reading your post, I often think how much harder things would be without the nhs., it could be better across a lot of areas, but I'm glad we have it.

15 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Personally I would prefer the Irish system where charges are made for visits to A&E or GP. Not a big charge just enough to deter the time wasters.

I nearly went there, but don't know enough to make a proper comment,  I've often thought you should have to pay a deposit to see your GP, to make sure the shirkers show up, if you don't arrive for a dental appointment you get charged. 

39 minutes ago, henry d said:

That's pretty poor form, over the past 18 months I've been to a GP practice in both Scotland and England regarding the same issue, both were hugely professional in their treatment of me, their attention to detail regarding personal details online and hard copies, treating me as a person and not just an illness and worked seamlessly with the specialists in hospital.

My point, you should start with your GP, and hopefully get the service you received. 

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

As for A&E's for 'injuring yourself' - that's half the problem.  But let's just agree to add ridiculous wait times in A&E to the list of uniquely British problems shall we?

Half the problem is people who treat A&E like their doctors,  but no appointment is needed.

[Vince Green]

2 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

I'm not sure what your point is Henry, my point is there's no service level agreement with GP's with respect to actually treating patients.

They get paid whether they see people or not, which has become particularly acute during COVID.

So if you have a practice manager who has the attitude that "This place would run so much better if it weren't for patients" - then so be it, he can get away with that.  Doesn't mean they're all like that, but it's a criminal waste of public money that such a thing is countenanced.

Either you have GP's operating as proper businesses, in which case, see no patients, make no money, or you have them as the first point-of-contact for a massive lumbering health system, but they then are directly answerable to the DoH. 

Our current system (negotiated by the new labour Government at the end of the 90s) does neither.  The worst of all worlds.

The fact that your experience is positive doesn't fix the systemic issue that causes it to fail vast swathes of other less fortunate people.

 

Also, doctors get paid to have a patient on their books, I think its about £160 a year for every patient.

So I would imagine some doctor is still raking in £160 every year for Andrea my mother's old cleaner who went back to Hungary about five years ago and never came back. I bet Andrea is still getting child benefit too

Or the Indian family that rented the flat below us for a year before moving to Amsterdam. They had a son too, I bet they are still getting child benefit.

[Cosmicblue]

Going back to the start of the thread....there is no comparison between employment law in Texas and the UK or even Europe for that matter.

I work for a Texas based company and know full well that an employer in TX can terminate, on the spot, an employee without even giving a reason, job security they don't have - none whatsoever.    An employee can go in, resign on the spot and leave immediately too so there is little concept of loyalty on either side. 

It breeds a climate of employee fear where people are acutely risk averse - threatening people with their jobs in order to get them to comply works really well as the ability to terminate is so easy, no tribunals, employee reps or hearings...instant gone, paid up to that day and finished...no notice period.

They think our employment laws are nuts btw!

Edited July 18, 2021 by Cosmicblue

[Vince Green]

On 18/07/2021 at 17:12, Cosmicblue said:

Going back to the start of the thread....there is no comparison between employment law in Texas and the UK or even Europe for that matter.

I work for a Texas based company and know full well that an employer in TX can terminate, on the spot, an employee without even giving a reason, job security they don't have - none whatsoever.    An employee can go in, resign on the spot and leave immediately too so there is little concept of loyalty on either side. 

It breeds a climate of employee fear where people are acutely risk averse - threatening people with their jobs in order to get them to comply works really well as the ability to terminate is so easy, no tribunals, employee reps or hearings...instant gone, paid up to that day and finished...no notice period.

They think our employment laws are nuts btw!

Its only a fairly small number of employees who have any REAL job security. Here we have the illusion of being protected from unfair dismissal but the reality is different.

It costs thousands of pounds to take an employer to court and the process can drag on for years. Very few people can afford to go down that road unless they are a member of a strong union with deep pocket.

Even if you win the compensation is hardly worth the time effort and stress. Employers know this 

[NoBodyImportant]

At least any side effects of the Vaccine will be covered under Work related incident and make the employer liable. My best friend and his wife are both losing their jobs in September as they both work for Novant Health.  My wife has to the end of the year at her hospital.  She will be putting in her notice.  

[NoBodyImportant]

On 30/06/2021 at 08:14, udderlyoffroad said:

The NHS vs USA is such a straw-man argument that I shouldn't even bother, but I will anyway, as some people genuinely believe this to be the case.

There is literally nobody advocating for the alternative to the NHS to be the US system.  It's a complete 'Hobson's Choice' to pretend otherwise

There are plenty of other countries, with better healthcare outcomes than us - look a little closer to home: France, Germany, Switzerland, Netherlands - who spend roughly the same or a bit more than the UK per capita.

Frankly, if you have a serious, but treatable illness in the UK it's little more than a lottery as to whether you will survive it.  That is a national disgrace.  NHS dentistry might as well be non-existant.

If you have 20mins or so, have a listen to this on iPlayer Radio, explains the issues quite well.

GP's are paid just to exist in this country.  The government* turned each practice into a business that has no incentive to actually see or treat patients.  If the USSR had done that, we would mock their 'communist inefficiency' and make jokes about Ukranian tractor production quotas.

In any case, for something 'long term' you should be referred to a specialist not fobbed off with Aspirin for a treatable tumour!

As for A&E's for 'injuring yourself' - that's half the problem.  But let's just agree to add ridiculous wait times in A&E to the list of uniquely British problems shall we?

*Labour government, incidentally, but that's not important right now

 

The US system isn’t really that bad for the working class.  I like what I have.  My family pays $600 an month for 90/10 wife, child, and myself. Insurance pays 90% and I pay 10% until I hit my maximum of $4000 then insurance pays 100%.   Now before the Affordable Healthcare Act We paid $120 an month but that’s a different argument.  The insurance actually cost $1200 an month but my employer pays half as do 99% of companies.  The complaints come from those who don’t work and had to pay the full amount.  Disabled and elderly don’t pay anything.  But theirs is 80/20 with a max out of pocket of 7k a year.  But my parents pay about $200 a month for a supplement policy that pays their 20%.  Now I know this isn’t free but If I can get same day doctors appointments and usually see a specialist within a week.  I live in Charlotte NC and worked a lot in the Medical Triangle and half the people you meet are health tourists from Canada or from Europe.  I have talked to Canadians that come down because of having to wait over a year to see specialist.  Because of the Affordable Health Care Act insurance has to cover pre existing conditions so Canadians will fly down, buy a good 90/10 policy and go straight to surgeon.  Then they fly back to Canada with a bill for their max out of pocket. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by NoBodyImportant

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, NoBodyImportant said:

 I live in Charlotte NC and worked a lot in the Medical Triangle and half the people you meet are health tourists from Canada or from Europe.  I have talked to Canadians that come down because of having to wait over a year to see specialist.  Because of the Affordable Health Care Act insurance has to cover pre existing conditions so Canadians will fly down, buy a good 90/10 policy and go straight to surgeon.  Then they fly back to Canada with a bill for their max out of pocke

We have health tourists here too, except they usually dont pay a penny.
Expectant mothers with complications in pregnancy , fly in for a 'holiday' as they cant afford the healthcare back home.
Supposedly HIV positive residents of places like Thailand or India, come over to see relatives, and cop a few months supply of HIV 'Pepsi' drugs worth tens of thousands  (Our NHS has a policy of not refusing anyone of these drugs) often to be sold back home, many make multiple visits a year.
Yes occasionally the NHS bills them , but you cant get blood from a stone.