Coals to Newcastle, elephants to Kenya

[McSpredder]

How long would zoo-bred elephants from Kent survive when let loose in Kenya among the predators and poachers?

Flying large animals around the world is not exactly carbon-neutral.   It might be better for the environment if Mrs Johnson's favourite charity arranged for the Kentish elephants to be converted into dog meat, and a wodge of cash sent to help the local conservationists in Kenya.  But maybe the project has more to do with virtue-signalling

than conservation?

[Scully]

🤷‍♂️ 

[Good shot?]

Boris Johnson wife is promoting moving said animals from Kent to Africa.

copied from the Mail.

Carrie Johnson's charity will fly a herd of elephants from a Kent wildlife park to Kenya in a 'world first' rewilding project.

The Aspinall Foundation announced it will transport a total of thirteen elephants - weighing 25 tonnes - more than 4,000 miles on a Boeing 747 to a secret location in Kenya in a 'ground-breaking step for this country and the conservation movement'.

I hope the project keeps her very busy for some considerable time.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Good shot?

[bavarianbrit]

Hanibal Boris could march them across Europe then use the empty rubber boats to pass them down onto Libya. 

[bottletopbill]

I thought the elephant's were just poached for the ivory did not know until a few  months ago they are killed for the meat.

So are they going to killed and eat by local's  nice to help.

But for over fifty five years and blue peter they have been asking for water wells'

By now every home should have one or two

[chrisjpainter]

44 minutes ago, McSpredder said:

How long would zoo-bred elephants from Kent survive when let loose in Kenya among the predators and poachers?

 

 

 

Flying large animals around the world is not exactly carbon-neutral.   It might be better for the environment if Mrs Johnson's favourite charity arranged for the Kentish elephants to be converted into dog meat, and a wodge of cash sent to help the local conservationists in Kenya.  But maybe the project has more to do with virtue-signalling

 

than conservation?

It should work. I've got a school friend who's involved in this and it has everything to do with conservation; releasing animals back into the wild has always been at the core of the Aspinall Foundation's work. It's a world first and could help set a blueprint for elephants that have been raised in captivity being released into the wild. They've picked 13 elephants from two family groups, including calves, to be released as one herd and they'll fly conscious.  They'll spend 6 months in a soft release site to let them acclimatise to the terrain and diet and to act as quarantine for any pathogens to be removed from their system. They will then be released into an area that has low density of elephants but the potential to support far more and where poaching is more under control. 10 of the 13 are already beyond the age where predators are a realistic threat and because they're in a functioning family structure, predation is unlikely to be an issue, particularly given the abundance of easier prey species for lions. Given that they are captive bred and reared, they will be able to expand the shrinking gene pool of the local elephant metapopulation, so if it works, the model can then be used to help prevent population bottlenecks being created, both in Savannah Elephants and other species.

Family bonded animals are easier to reintroduce than single animals and there is precedent with mountain gorillas, but it's never been tried with something as big as elephants or over such long distances, but if it works, it will prove that distance doesn't need to be a hindrance in putting animals into their natural environment. Whilst there are areas of Africa where there are too many Savannah elephants, Kenya's not got that problem and populations are fast declining, so it's worth giving it a go. Other species beyond Savannah elephants could benefit in the long run. 

[Sussexboy]

It’s an interesting topic that’s for sure. Personally I think it’s great that these different gene pools are being used for the reason they were set up for. Surely a logistical headache though, how do you transport something as large as a full grown elephant safely, especially when conscious? Safely as in safe for both elephants and handlers and the aircraft. How do elephants cope with turbulence? Given that elephants are incredibly intelligent will the UK born animals “speak” differently to the native bred ones? Will they communicate effectively with the natives once released from observation into the wild? So many questions, some of them probably nonsense!

[Benthejockey]

A better option would be to move some of the animals from countries on the same continent would it not? Ah but they couldn't do that because the countries where there is a dearth of Loxodonta are the countries where they're legally hunted and to relocate some of those would be tantamount to admitting that the trophy hunting business is key to conservation. 

[chrisjpainter]

14 minutes ago, Benthejockey said:

A better option would be to move some of the animals from countries on the same continent would it not? Ah but they couldn't do that because the countries where there is a dearth of Loxodonta are the countries where they're legally hunted and to relocate some of those would be tantamount to admitting that the trophy hunting business is key to conservation. 

That makes no sense? If a country allows hunting, but has a low population of the animal being hunted, surely that would prove they shouldn't really be shooting them? If they weren't shooting them, perhaps they wouldn't have a dearth in the population...

Also why would you take elephants out of an area of low population simply to move them to another area of low population? You're making a problem worse in one area to make it better in another. 

Edited July 6, 2021 by chrisjpainter

[London Best]

It would be a much better idea if Carrie Johnson stayed with them, permanently.

[Benthejockey]

6 hours ago, chrisjpainter said:

That makes no sense? If a country allows hunting, but has a low population of the animal being hunted, surely that would prove they shouldn't really be shooting them? If they weren't shooting them, perhaps they wouldn't have a dearth in the population...

Also why would you take elephants out of an area of low population simply to move them to another area of low population? You're making a problem worse in one area to make it better in another. 

The countries in South Africa where they're hunted have large elephant populations. They're only "endangered" in the African countries where they're not hunted. The villagers can't eat photographs. In the countries that hunt animals like elephant and lion there's actually really healthy populations because they have a financial value to the locals. The industry surrounding hunting provides jobs and money for them as well as meat for them to eat. 

[Benthejockey]

 

[chrisjpainter]

10 minutes ago, Benthejockey said:

The countries in South Africa where they're hunted have large elephant populations. They're only "endangered" in the African countries where they're not hunted. The villagers can't eat photographs. In the countries that hunt animals like elephant and lion there's actually really healthy populations because they have a financial value to the locals. The industry surrounding hunting provides jobs and money for them as well as meat for them to eat. 

That's the exact opposite of what you said though...

[Benthejockey]

2 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

That's the exact opposite of what you said though...

🙈 yes it is! I definitely didnt write dearth! And definitely didn't mean dearth! Bloody phone!

[Pushandpull]

Just check out the twitter feeds (just use google - you don't have to join) from serious conservationists such as Prof Adam Hart or Amy Dickman at the moment.

[chrisjpainter]

12 minutes ago, Pushandpull said:

Just check out the twitter feeds (just use google - you don't have to join) from serious conservationists such as Prof Adam Hart or Amy Dickman at the moment.

I agree it's controversial and definitely not without its risks. And they do love riding a publicity wave, for sure! But personally, I'd rather see the elephants in Africa than in Kent and I'd like to see it succeed so that a model can be recreated for situations that can make serious contributions to reintroductions.  They've had success before with lowland gorillas (although that wasn't without its controversies) and they were the first organisation to release captive bred cheetahs, so they have form. 

Obviously they need to avoid to black rhino disaster the other year...

Being able to introduce captive bred animals could be game changing for a whole host of endangered species. My guess is we're a year away from it actually happening. No site has been confirmed, although if the rumours are right in saying it'll be Tsavo (odd choice), then I suspect they'll aim for the end of the rainy season and beginning of the dry season. The coolest temps are during the dry season, and food most abundant towards the end of the rainy season, so that makes it April/May/June. 

We'll see.  

[McSpredder]

12 hours ago, chrisjpainter said:

They will then be released into an area that has low density of elephants but the potential to support far more and where poaching is more under control.

 "low density" and "potential to support far more" suggest to me that perhaps poaching is NOT under control.    Also, I wonder whether zoo elephants might have lost any natural suspicion of humans, and be particularly vulnerable to poaching.

12 hours ago, chrisjpainter said:

It's a world first and could help set a blueprint for elephants that have been raised in captivity being released into the wild .......... it will prove that distance doesn't need to be a hindrance in putting animals into their natural environment .......... so it's worth giving it a go. Other species beyond Savannah elephants could benefit in the long run. 

In other words, somebody hopes that the millions poured into this project can be used to justify spending a lot more money on similar exercises in future.   Please forgive my scepticism, but I suspect the main beneficiaries might be the "conservation professionals" rather than the elephants.

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, any news of the Elephant Cher re homed ?

[Vince Green]

14 hours ago, McSpredder said:

How long would zoo-bred elephants from Kent survive when let loose in Kenya among the predators and poachers?

 

 

 

Flying large animals around the world is not exactly carbon-neutral.   It might be better for the environment if Mrs Johnson's favourite charity arranged for the Kentish elephants to be converted into dog meat, and a wodge of cash sent to help the local conservationists in Kenya.  But maybe the project has more to do with virtue-signalling

 

than conservation?

If we let the SAS (etc) train by going to places like Kenya tracing and intercepting poachers it would be a win -win. 

[enfieldspares]

15 hours ago, London Best said:

It would be a much better idea if Carrie Johnson stayed with them, permanently.

Yes. And her useless husband alongside. 

[Pushandpull]

Despite those "goodbye old friend" adverts, savannah elephants are not going extinct any time soon. Kenya, at the last count in 2018, had 34,000 and rising so dumping 13 more from Kent is of no consequence in conservation terms. It ranks with the same outfit's moving two cheetahs from Canada to live in an enclosure in Kenya. The biggest problem is competition for space and thus habitat between the big and dangerous game and the burgeoning human populations. The Ol Pejeta Diaries series on Sky Nature gives some idea of this : it is a socio-economic problem which affects all of the range states to some degree. No doubt eventually the big stuff will finally be behind expensive fences or dead but not for a long time yet.

Poaching is an ongoing problem but the word, as in UK, has many aspects ranging from "one for the pot" antelope snaring to rhinoceros horn exports. It's hard to see what the SAS (that universal solution) might achieve in these sovereign states over vast areas. You have to get the locals onside as it's their country and they don't want too many white saviours giving advice. There are many highly educated black people running parks and conservancies. Africa is a huge place and away from tourist honeypots can be pretty empty. MMBA (miles and miles of b...... a.......) does not make great TV. A simple example of the scale is the Kruger NP which looks rather small on a map but is in fact about the size of Wales.

[bavarianbrit]

Five dead keepers are on this foundations headstone and perhaps Lord Lucan fed the tigers.