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How crazy is our Government !!!!! Latin in State Schools !!!!


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We did Latin for 2 years, can't say it hurt, I could read,write add subtract,multiply and understood algebra. 

Thing was I wasn't brought up in a world were the tail wagged the dog.

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Where I am all the kids have to learn Welsh which is 0 use outside of Wales (maybe a job on a government website excluded)

But I have a nomination for a teacher - Mark Drakeford - and we can finally get rid of him from Wales :D

 

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On 31/07/2021 at 20:40, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, I had a Victor Meldrew moment, I don't believe it , !!!, It is estimated 1000s of our young children cannot do written English, Basic Maths and spelling and Boris and gang want to spend millions on the above, I bet any money it's not even liked by Private School pupils, perhaps Boris could say where Latin is required , Tesco !!!!!!!, Any thoughts PW members ??

Medicine,Botany,Pharmacy,Horticulture, Biology etc etc all still use Latin terms and names.!  Nil Illegitimi non carborundum !

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2 minutes ago, fallowbuck said:

Medicine,Botany,Pharmacy,Horticulture, Biology etc etc all still use Latin terms and names.!  Nil Illegitimi non carborundum !

True...but I say it's probably more important to be able to spell the words medicine, botany, pharmacy, horticulture, biology etc... before worrying about spelling the medulla oblongata. And before making up Latin.

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22 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

True...but I say it's probably more important to be able to spell the words medicine, botany, pharmacy, horticulture, biology etc... before worrying about spelling the medulla oblongata. And before making up Latin.

I studied Latin for six years in a good old fashioned Grammar School.You have to improvise as the Romans never  really knew how to swear!🤗

Edited by fallowbuck
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32 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

True...but I say it's probably more important to be able to spell the words medicine, botany, pharmacy, horticulture, biology etc... before worrying about spelling the medulla oblongata. And before making up Latin.

Spot on! The general standard of written and spoken English in this country is appalling, thanks in large part to the ideological bigotry that abolished the grammar schools and replaced them with educational mediocrity. Whatever anyone's personal view of the value of Latin, the grammar schools were by far the greatest enablers of social mobility this country has ever had. The irony is that with a very few exceptions, they were destroyed by the very party that claims to champion social mobility!

Latin, along with other classical languages such as ancient Greek, was of course a factor in engendering the hated "Elitism" label the socialist loonies applied to the grammar schools. Judging by the opening post such attitudes still exist.

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On 31/07/2021 at 20:40, oldypigeonpopper said:

It is estimated 1000s of our young children cannot do written English, Basic Maths and spelling  

That may be true but they are also taught drama, art and RE. Are those subjects any more or less relevant than Latin?? 

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2 minutes ago, toontastic said:

That may be true but they are also taught drama, art and RE. Are those subjects any more or less relevant than Latin?? 

Depends what you mean by relevant. How many employers ask for drama, art or RE qualifications in preference to English and Maths?

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6 minutes ago, Westward said:

Depends what you mean by relevant. How many employers ask for drama, art or RE qualifications in preference to English and Maths?

Wasn't comparing Latin to English and maths but to art drama RE 

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44 minutes ago, Westward said:

Okay fair enough. It was the text you quoted that cause me to infer otherwise.

No probs, the point I was trying to  make was that people complain children being offered the chance to learn Latin, when 1000s can't even read and write. But they don't complain about the same children who can't read or write learning drama, art and RE. 

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5 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

In America we are dealing with drag queen story time and you all are complaining about Latin 😂 

B07E8B2D-CD32-461E-AD8A-BF0D0834D5E1.jpeg

You look pretty good in that wig though dude 👍👍👍👄👅

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6 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

In America we are dealing with drag queen story time and you all are complaining about Latin 😂 

B07E8B2D-CD32-461E-AD8A-BF0D0834D5E1.jpeg

Could be worse it/he/she could be doing story time in latin

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9 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

In America we are dealing with drag queen story time and you all are complaining about Latin 😂 

B07E8B2D-CD32-461E-AD8A-BF0D0834D5E1.jpeg

Oh, we're fighting against that here, don't you worry. A few lovely incidents of sexualised behaviour in front of children for a start. The Redbridge Library likes a drag act story time, along with the famous rainbow monkey with cock:

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/07/13/the-rainbow-dildo-butt-monkey-is-no-laughing-matter/

Putting sexualised content in front of children and saying it's normal is GROOMING. 

2 hours ago, toontastic said:

That may be true but they are also taught drama, art and RE. Are those subjects any more or less relevant than Latin?? 

The thing about learning is that children do better at the core subjects if they have a variety of other subjects: art, music, drama, PE, craft and technology. They increase the ability of the child to learn, even if the child leaves school without remembering how to play cricket or sing a round. Cutting back on all these just reduces the ability of those who don't have access to them outside school, leaving them even further behind. 

I suspect the Latin thing is "All the successful chaps learned Latin, therefore learning Latin makes you successful." I would have loved the opportunity to learn Latin in the 90s. It's the icing on the educational cake, arts or sciences. Got to have a decently made cake to make it worthwhile though. 

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2 hours ago, Westward said:

Spot on! The general standard of written and spoken English in this country is appalling, thanks in large part to the ideological bigotry that abolished the grammar schools and replaced them with educational mediocrity. Whatever anyone's personal view of the value of Latin, the grammar schools were by far the greatest enablers of social mobility this country has ever had. The irony is that with a very few exceptions, they were destroyed by the very party that claims to champion social mobility!

Latin, along with other classical languages such as ancient Greek, was of course a factor in engendering the hated "Elitism" label the socialist loonies applied to the grammar schools. Judging by the opening post such attitudes still exist.

+1

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I did Latin for 4 years until "O" level. You could only take 9 "O" levels and I had to chose between Latin and Physics. I was top of the class in Latin and felt a bit miffed when I dropped it for Physics. It robbed me of another "O" level. Looking back, it made no difference to my life whatsoever. I have used the odd bit of Latin, but would have preferred a subject with more practical usage, in later life.

Edited by Gordon R
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I learnt Latin at a state school. For two years then gave it up as soon as I could. I was awful at all languages but Latin was dreadful for me. I have nothing against those who enjoy it or want others to enjoy it. 

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2 hours ago, Westward said:

Whatever anyone's personal view of the value of Latin, the grammar schools were by far the greatest enablers of social mobility this country has ever had. The irony is that with a very few exceptions, they were destroyed by the very party that claims to champion social mobility!

Very true. I live in a borough that maintained grammar schools. I went to a state school in Birkenhead as the 4th of 5 children in a single parent family. I achieved 5 As at A-Level, my eldest sister only achieved AAB but is a solicitor and partner at PriceWaterhouseCooper. The two neighbouring boroughs abolished grammar schools and so it is a choice between private education, a very expensive house in a good catchment area, or a poor comprehensive. 

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18 minutes ago, fallowbuck said:

Don’t you think texting and Social Media are far more responsible for poor grammar and atrocious spelling than poor schooling?! 

 

 

 

It certainly won't help.

But the foundation work should already have been done by then.

Many kids still barely read, certainly not at home so they aren't used to seeing and using correct language and sentences. 

(I really hope I've made no mistakes ☺☺)

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