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When does a shotgun become style over substance?


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I saw this question posed on a Youtube comment on one of the TGS reviews. 

"Is there a point at which guns become style over substance? There must be a point at which the price charged for a gun with nicer looking wood and different engraving is no different to its cheaper alternative which is the same gun underneath the clothing."

One of the answers was that around the £2500 - £3000 mark is when the change happens, beyond that it's simply up to you how much you want to pay for fancy engraving and better wood. 

What do you think? 

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 All shotguns are only three things. A piece of wood, a spring loaded action that releases a hammer when you pull a trigger, and two tubes of steel. So a recently purchased Yildiz is no different to my 1906 Dickson. With modern machining you can produce that to a high quality in large numbers relatively cheaply

To me what you really pay for is hand finish, custom fit etc. The price point for that in a new gun is very much higher.

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I agree with the OP. Maybe a little cheaper, which is why there will be more silver pigeons Miroku MKs and browning 3/4/5/725 in use than any other shotgun (UK wise and probably much of the rest of the world). 
 

but it also comes down to the human desire for nice things, if I won the lottery I’d have a pair of boss ordered the next day (when my handover clears) as well as one of those Lamborghini SUV.  

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26 minutes ago, Dave at kelton said:

 All shotguns are only three things. A piece of wood, a spring loaded action that releases a hammer when you pull a trigger, and two tubes of steel. So a recently purchased Yildiz is no different to my 1906 Dickson. With modern machining you can produce that to a high quality in large numbers relatively cheaply

To me what you really pay for is hand finish, custom fit etc. The price point for that in a new gun is very much higher.

Nail on head, sir.

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49 minutes ago, Shadowchaser said:

I saw this question posed on a Youtube comment on one of the TGS reviews. 

"Is there a point at which guns become style over substance? There must be a point at which the price charged for a gun with nicer looking wood and different engraving is no different to its cheaper alternative which is the same gun underneath the clothing."

One of the answers was that around the £2500 - £3000 mark is when the change happens, beyond that it's simply up to you how much you want to pay for fancy engraving and better wood. 

What do you think? 

There is not a definitive answer. The same question can be applied to most commodities.  Is a top of range Mecedes car worth the extra over a Dacia basic model? They both have the same basic components to enable all driving requirements albeit with different comfort and refinement levels. I know the one I can afford, but unfortunately it isn't the one I would prefer! Same for guns, they all go bang but not many people would swap a  Boss, Purdey, Dickson etc for a Baikal. Why is that I wonder? A House of Hardy fly rod or a Aldi special, they both cast a fly. You pays your money............  Regards

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The best shooting, handling, balanced gun I ever owned was a Baikal o/u. I paid £129 for it new in 1976. from Chubbs in Edgeware. 

I've had many other makes and models, several very expensive ones (trying to buy success) but deeply regret selling that Baikal. It just fitted me like a glove

Edited by Vince Green
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59 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

The best shooting, handling, balanced gun I ever owned was a Baikal o/u. I paid £129 for it new in 1976. from Chubbs in Edgeware. 

I've had many other makes and models, several very expensive ones (trying to buy success) but deeply regret selling that Baikal. It just fitted me like a glove

It's an interesting topic.   The gun I've posted my highest scores in sporting clays is my Winchester SX3.  I paid just under a grand for it brand new.  Some of the more expensive guns I've owned (circa 3k) I've come nowhere close.  Mind you it's probably the fact they didn't fit me properly.  I also went through a phase of thinking if I buy a "better gun" ie more expensive, I'll shoot better. 

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People are different, I have friends that blow cash for the thrill/desire. . . .  I but things that have value to me, either a nice piece of fish for dinner or a car that someone has already taken the hit. They can't work me out and neither I can work their ethos 

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12 hours ago, Vince Green said:

The best shooting, handling, balanced gun I ever owned was a Baikal o/u. I paid £129 for it new in 1976. from Chubbs in Edgeware. 

I've had many other makes and models, several very expensive ones (trying to buy success) but deeply regret selling that Baikal. It just fitted me like a glove

I have the same Glove 🙂

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there is also the question of the ammunition you put through your highly expensive shotgun to do it justice.

When I used to help out in my mate's shop the commonest question we got asked was always whats cheapest? Never ever whats best?

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2 hours ago, Scully said:

As soon as you include something which only adds to its appearance rather than improves its function, I suppose? 

Agree totally.   Certainly a Yildiz or Baikal will feel very different from a Dickson or a Purdy, because of major differences in design and in the quality of workmanship.

But when considering modern guns from the major manufacturers, is there any functional difference between the Browning Grade 6 and Grade 1, or between a Beretta EELL and a Silver Pigeon?

If handling guns with eyes shut and wearing gloves (therefore unable to see or feel the engraving and chequering), how many people could tell the up-market version from the basic model?

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15 minutes ago, McSpredder said:

But when considering modern guns from the major manufacturers, is there any functional difference between the Browning Grade 6 and Grade 1

Yes, better workmanship on the inside makes a higher grade a more reliable gun.

/Markus

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27 minutes ago, Nuke said:

Yes, better workmanship on the inside makes a higher grade a more reliable gun.

/Markus

The most unreliable car I ever had cost me the most money, 75k. This was pre divorce, when I had lots of cash on the hip. Now I drive a 13k special which has not put a foot wrong. The most unreliable air rifle I ever owned cost the most and the same goes for watches I have owned. My 3k Bremont is +2 second per week, my Daytona was +2 mins per week. I have learned over the years that apart from more VAT spent and looks, more money does not genuinely mean more reliable.

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59 minutes ago, McSpredder said:

Agree totally.   Certainly a Yildiz or Baikal will feel very different from a Dickson or a Purdy, because of major differences in design and in the quality of workmanship.

But when considering modern guns from the major manufacturers, is there any functional difference between the Browning Grade 6 and Grade 1, or between a Beretta EELL and a Silver Pigeon?

If handling guns with eyes shut and wearing gloves (therefore unable to see or feel the engraving and chequering), how many people could tell the up-market version from the basic model?

I can definitely tell the difference between my low grade eell and my high grade SO6 with my eyes shut and gloves on and certainly when shooting them the different is noticeable 

the problem with a thread on these lines is that most of the comments will inevitably come from people that shoot entry level guns and haven’t had the joy of shooting a few thousand shots through a high grade gun or a higher top end gun 

 

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22 minutes ago, Taileron said:

The most unreliable car I ever had cost me the most money, 75k. This was pre divorce, when I had lots of cash on the hip. Now I drive a 13k special which has not put a foot wrong. The most unreliable air rifle I ever owned cost the most and the same goes for watches I have owned. My 3k Bremont is +2 second per week, my Daytona was +2 mins per week. I have learned over the years that apart from more VAT spent and looks, more money does not genuinely mean more reliable.

What has this got to do with my post? I answeed a question regarding different grades of the same weapon model.

/M

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4 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

I can definitely tell the difference between my low grade eell and my high grade SO6 with my eyes shut and gloves on and certainly when shooting them the different is noticeable 

the problem with a thread on these lines is that most of the comments will inevitably come from people that shoot entry level guns and haven’t had the joy of shooting a few thousand shots through a high grade gun or a higher top end gun 

 

We aren’t worthy of you… simple minions

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