Afghanistan

[NoBodyImportant]

As an American taxpayer I feel like I should have gotten more for the 2 trillion I spent in that country.  I guess the Taliban has some pretty nice bridges to drive their Armored vehicles across.  I can almost guarantee the the  400 modern schools I paid for will be turned into terror camps and rape centers.  Not to mention the military bases/ prisons/ hospitals/ housing I also paid for.   

[oowee]

14 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

As an American taxpayer I feel like I should have gotten more for the 2 trillion I spent in that country.  I guess the Taliban has some pretty nice bridges to drive their Armored vehicles across.  I can almost guarantee the the  400 modern schools I paid for will be turned into terror camps and rape centers.  Not to mention the military bases/ prisons/ hospitals/ housing I also paid for.   

Cost of 911 was 2 trillion. 

[Jim Neal]

I've been holding my breath on this one, hoping that the "withdrawal" of western forces was actually a clever ruse to trick the Taliban out from under their rock, and then BANG we'd squish them once and for all.

But it doesn't seem that way now 😕

I hope this isn't the beginning of Gulf War 3

[Rob85]

I called it right when I was talking to my missus the other day about it. The president of Afghanistan has bolted out if the country and left them all to it. Corrupt Cowards the bloody lot of them

[Rob85]

9 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

I've been holding my breath on this one, hoping that the "withdrawal" of western forces was actually a clever ruse to trick the Taliban out from under their rock, and then BANG we'd squish them once and for all.

But it doesn't seem that way now 😕

I hope this isn't the beginning of Gulf War 3

I doubt they will go back in the way they first did. All the countries that didn't really pull their weight in the first place won't even bother to turn up to play.

If they do fully take over as expected I am expecting the Americans to put in place some sort of campaign to destroy the more modern equipment like radar and missile stations they gave to the ANA to prevent the taliban using it 

[Mungler]

8 minutes ago, Rob85 said:

I called it right when I was talking to my missus the other day about it. The president of Afghanistan has bolted out if the country and left them all to it. Corrupt Cowards the bloody lot of them

 
Unbelievable isn’t it. 

You expect conscripts to run but when it’s your own country, family and friends at stake you would have thought the army (and the rest of the country) might have dug a little deeper especially with their new ‘free’ way of life at risk. 

And to think we sent our own men and women over there to die for ‘this’.

Unbelievable.  

[Newbie to this]

This problem requires a whole world solution. The whole world together, either needs to deal with the taliban and Isis, or the whole world needs to just accept they are here, and let them get on with it.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Newbie to this

[Vince Green]

A few observations

First  the taliban leaders don't venture into Afghanistan very often, they hide in Pakistan where they are given shelter and support. Their bases, training camps and money is in Pakistan 

Let's not disregard Pakistan's role in all of this.

Second let's not disregard the huge amount of involvement the taliban have in the drugs trade and the hige amounts of money they earn from it. They terrorise farmers to grow poppies for them.

Third. Biden didn't listen to warnings about what would happen if he pulled out all the troops

He believed the Afghan army would be "just fine" on their own. He was the only one who did.

Incompetence?  Senility?  What ever? He didn't have a grasp of the facts. That doesn't look good for a man in his job

Edited August 16, 2021 by Vince Green

[Rob85]

6 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

This problem requires a whole world solution. The whole world either needs to deal with the taliban and Isis together, or the whole world needs to just accept they are here, and let them get on with it.

Wonder how long it will be til all the bleeding hearts are out wanting to house all the refugees in the south coast of England. Nice easy way for the taliban/Al Quaeda to smuggle some revenge attacks into the country.

With some luck all the main taliban leaders in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia will come to party in the presidential Palace and Biden can send a MOAB for a state visit

2 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

A few observations

First the taliban leaders don't venture into Afghanistan very often, they hide in Pakistan where they are given shelter and support. Their bases, training camps and money is in Pakistan 

Let's not disregard Pakistan's role in all of this.

Second let's not disregard the huge amount of involvement they have in the drugs trade and the money they earn from it. They terrorise farmers to grow poppies for them.

Third. Biden didn't listen to warnings about what would happen if he pulled out all the troops

He believed the Afghan army would be "just fine" on their own. He was the only one who did.

Incompetence?  Senility?  What ever? He didn't have a grasp of the facts. That doesn't look good for a man in his job

Remember this troop withdrawal was agreed under the trump administration, biden just hurried it along by a few months. This was always on the cards.

[WalkedUp]

31 minutes ago, Rob85 said:

I called it right when I was talking to my missus the other day about it. The president of Afghanistan has bolted out if the country and left them all to it. Corrupt Cowards the bloody lot of them

Anyone think BoJo would stick it out in a similar situation? I am sure the Queen would go down with the ship but not the likes of Boris and his seven wives. 

[12gauge82]

7 minutes ago, Rob85 said:

 

Remember this troop withdrawal was agreed under the trump administration, biden just hurried it along by a few months. This was always on the cards.

It's the way Biden did it that has caused all of this. He literally pulled the rug from underneath the afgan army. 

Biden and his administration is solely responsible for that part of this saga. 

[Rob85]

5 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

It's the way Biden did it that has caused all of this. He literally pulled the rug from underneath the afgan army. 

Biden and his administration is solely responsible for that part of this saga. 

Pulled the rug from under them??? The Americans have trained and equipped them for 20 YEARS! They have gave them modern equipment like attack helicopters, armoured vehicles etc 20 years worth of training and equipping to defend against one enemy and they surrender quicker than the French in 1940. I don't think this is Biden fault.

[12gauge82]

Just now, Rob85 said:

Pulled the rug from under them??? The Americans have trained and equipped them for 20 YEARS! They have gave them modern equipment like attack helicopters, armoured vehicles etc 20 years worth of training and equipping to defend against one enemy and they surrender quicker than the French in 1940. I don't think this is Biden fault.

That's exactly my point. The west has shed blood and sweat over there, helped install a form of democracy and freedom. Equipped, trained and provided huge amounts of money, the least Biden could have done is a sagged withdrawal, with support where necessary and I fully accept it still would likely have collapsed, but at least the afgan would have been given every opportunity to have supported themselves, instead Biden pulled out suddenly, only informing the afgan government after the vast majority were already left or leaving. Why after 20 years of blood, money and effort would anyone in their right mind do that? I'm no fan of trump but Biden has just managed to in one go slip even lower! 

[Mice!]

3 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Why after 20 years of blood, money and effort would anyone in their right mind do that? I'm no fan of trump but Biden has just managed to in one go slip even lower! 

Maybe because they realised it was all a waste of time, men and money?

The fact things have gone wrong so fast shows how little has actually changed.

9 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

I've been holding my breath on this one, hoping that the "withdrawal" of western forces was actually a clever ruse to trick the Taliban out from under their rock, and then BANG we'd squish them once and for all.

But it doesn't seem that way now 😕

I hope this isn't the beginning of Gulf War 3

Could still happen,  the American's could come storming back in to save the day, I doubt most of the world even realised they were still there.

1 hour ago, Rob85 said:

I called it right when I was talking to my missus the other day about it. The president of Afghanistan has bolted out if the country and left them all to it. Corrupt Cowards the bloody lot of them

Proves what a waste of time the Afghan government was.

[Grandalf]

34 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

That's exactly my point. The west has shed blood and sweat over there, helped install a form of democracy and freedom. Equipped, trained and provided huge amounts of money, the least Biden could have done is a sagged withdrawal, with support where necessary and I fully accept it still would likely have collapsed, but at least the afgan would have been given every opportunity to have supported themselves, instead Biden pulled out suddenly, only informing the afgan government after the vast majority were already left or leaving. Why after 20 years of blood, money and effort would anyone in their right mind do that? I'm no fan of trump but Biden has just managed to in one go slip even lower! 

America, Pakistan and the British supplied and trained the Taliban for the twenty years that the Russian army was in Afghanistan.    In those days they were the good guys and were known as the Mujahideen.   Then they morfed into the Taliban, still supported by Pakistan, and became the bad guys and the Afghan army became the goodguys.   But due to the Afghan tribal system it is forgotten that these are all the same guys.   In Afghanistan changing sides is considered to be just a political move that might save your life.   There is no shame attached to it.   It's considered to be common sense not to be on the loosing side when the final whistle blows.  Yesterday and over the last few weeks a lot of Afghans changed sides - That's all.   Been going on for hundreds of years.

[Vince Green]

1 hour ago, Rob85 said:

 

Remember this troop withdrawal was agreed under the trump administration, biden just hurried it along by a few months. This was always on the cards.

You could never tell with Trump he was so unpredictable but he didn't actually do it and we will never know how he planned to do it.

Biden on the other hand had said for years he would pull the troops out and he did it in a way that left the Afghan army with little option but to run.

I don't think there is much doubt around the world that biden destabilised the country

[bruno22rf]

1 hour ago, WalkedUp said:

Anyone think BoJo would stick it out in a similar situation? I am sure the Queen would go down with the ship but not the likes of Boris and his seven wives. 

There were plans in place during WW2 to evacuate the entire Royal family if the Germans invaded, the rest of the country would have to face the music.

[Grandalf]

3 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

There were plans in place during WW2 to evacuate the entire Royal family if the Germans invaded, the rest of the country would have to face the music.

That was so that the country could not be held to ransome when the Royal Family became hostages.

[ditchman]

sitting in front of the t.v OPEN MOUTHED.............the scenes at Kabul airport are truly astounding ...chaotic....worrying

people climbing ...(100's of them) all over moving /taxing heavy lift cargo planes...............jeesus what an utter mess ..

[mel b3]

1 minute ago, ditchman said:

sitting in front of the t.v OPEN MOUTHED.............the scenes at Kabul airport are truly astounding ...chaotic....worrying

people climbing ...(100's of them) all over moving /taxing heavy lift cargo planes...............jeesus what an utter mess ..

I've just been watching it . Truly awful.

[Newbie to this]

49 minutes ago, ditchman said:

sitting in front of the t.v OPEN MOUTHED.............the scenes at Kabul airport are truly astounding ...chaotic....worrying

people climbing ...(100's of them) all over moving /taxing heavy lift cargo planes...............jeesus what an utter mess ..

I've just read that people are literally falling from the sky after clinging onto the planes during take off.

There needs to be a task forced formed, be it UN/NATO/some other alliance and they need to be put to bed once and for all. If that means invading Pakistan etc., then so be it.

[ditchman]

9 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

I've just read that people are literally falling from the sky after clinging onto the planes during take off.

There needs to be a task forced formed, be it UN/NATO/some other alliance and they need to be put to bed once and for all. If that means invading Pakistan etc., then so be it.

there in lays the problem ...them 2 words

1. ...U.N.
2. ...N.A.T.O.

...........................whilst im at it you can add W.H.O.

Edited August 16, 2021 by ditchman

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, ditchman said:

there in lays the problem ...them 2 words

1. ...U.N.
2. ...N.A.T.O.

...........................whilst im at it you can add W.H.O.

Bang on the money there ditchman 

[12gauge82]

4 hours ago, Mice! said:

Maybe because they realised it was all a waste of time, men and money?

The fact things have gone wrong so fast shows how little has actually changed.

 

I absolutely agree, the afgan people are ultimately responsible for their own destiny and the west is not responsible for that. However with all that in mind and the efforts the west but particularly the soldiers put (including their own bodies and lives) into securing Afghanistan, the very least Biden could do was give the Afgans every chance of success, he chose to do the exact opposite and has caused a mess not seen since Vietnam (I'd put it as an even bigger failure) or the Suez crisis. 

 

I never thought I'd hear myself say it but bring back trump, all is forgiven! 

[chrisjpainter]

40 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I absolutely agree, the afgan people are ultimately responsible for their own destiny and the west is not responsible for that. However with all that in mind and the efforts the west but particularly the soldiers put (including their own bodies and lives) into securing Afghanistan, the very least Biden could do was give the Afgans every chance of success, he chose to do the exact opposite and has caused a mess not seen since Vietnam (I'd put it as an even bigger failure) or the Suez crisis. 

 

I never thought I'd hear myself say it but bring back trump, all is forgiven! 

It was Trump's idea to get out of Afghanistan. It was his promise and he'd started it before Biden took office. Biden only continued what Trump had started.