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Directline Refuse to Insure Pickup due to Ammo


Sprucey
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Hi all, 

Had my renewal docs come through today, phoned Directline who I've been with for 5 years.

During the conversation they asked if any hazardous goods are transported etc, Stupid me says...cartridges etc

They then refused to insure me. as this is classed as an Explosive according to them.

 Some will say 'why mention it' well they advised that if a cartridge was found in the car after an accident they wouldn't pay out.... Food for thought.

 

So, my question, ...

 

Has anyone been in this situation before? and if so how did you resolve? 

 

Only got 4 days to get sorted.

 

Thanks in Advance

 

Tom

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I've been trying to sort something similar out with the NFU for years. There does seem to be a reason to limit the carriage of certain items but I don't think the insurance people understand what they are doing.

To answer the OP, I don't know what policy you have but looking at the policy booklet online does not show any exclusions for cartridges or explosives so I would go back to them and ask them to point out where the exclusion is documented.

NFU used to exclude more than 2,000 bullets/cartridges unless you asked to carry more. Now they've changed the wording yet again it it does not make sense.

Their current policy now states "WE will not pay for any claim if YOUR CAR or TRAILER is being used for the transportation of high explosives such as nitro-glycerine, dynamite or other similar explosive. This does not apply to the carriage of live shotgun cartridges for FIELD SPORT ACTIVITIES".

As far as I understand cartridges, bullets and reloading powders can be described as explosive but not high explosive so I can carry them. Which makes the reference to 'live shotgun cartridges' pointless.

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From memory, the two you mention are explosives like black powder?

Cartridges and loaded bullets contain a propellant that gives power from expansion of the burning powder?

Not much help anyway, probably?

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I've never been asked that question before and there is a wide level of risks. small print and arguments with insurance companies, as a wise old owl once said. . . . . 

' I'm cover to work on any height of roof as a builder but non if I fall off '

I have a pal who is from the inner circle as an ex manager of the Royal so I'll ask him and if he can shine any light, I'll report back to this thread with his pearls of wisdom

Good luck in the meantime

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19 minutes ago, Windswept said:

It doesn't like he has been refused cover, they will just not cover the carriage of shotgun cartridges which, if correct, would apply to all Direct Line customers and possibly many other companies.

The details in the small print, he says " They refused to insure me " .....

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2 minutes ago, ninjaferret said:

The details in the small print, he says " They refused to insure me " .....

I know, but there's a difference between what someone says off the cuff and a legal definition. Most, if not all, insurance companies will exclude things (such as racing) but that doesn't mean they refuse cover.

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15 minutes ago, Windswept said:

I know, but there's a difference between what someone says off the cuff and a legal definition. Most, if not all, insurance companies will exclude things (such as racing) but that doesn't mean they refuse cover.

I'm not a mind reader, BUT He says, THEY REFUSED TO INSURE ME . And later says, ONLY 4 DAYS TO GET IT SORTED.

So unless you know different to what he says ? 

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There is an infamous film called 'Finding Forrester' staring Sean Connery

It may take some of our members a few viewings and time to absorb the content, but one of the punchy lines from the great man goes like this. . . . 

Writers write so readers can read. . . . just because you can write it doesn't mean you can read

Remember we have a solid legal system in this country because English can be interpreted in many ways

it's just like using polish but not even changing a single letter nor order it becomes something completely different if you capitalise it; Polish

Let's hope the OP gets it sorted as it 'could' effect us all and posts the result's in 4 days time, in the meantime I'm off for a gin

Edited by mgsontour
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9 minutes ago, mgsontour said:

Writers write so readers can read. . . . just because you can write it doesn't mean you can read

I don't know if you're agreeing with me or having a go. 🤣

To clarify my point. I know what @Sprucey wrote but I'm querying did he actually mean 'refused' in a legal, insurance, meaning? I.e. will DL still insure the vehicle if cartridges are not carried?

I will also add, did the call centre person mean what they said? More than once I've been told the wrong thing so I would ask to speak to a manager or underwriter to clarify exactly what is covered.

There may also be confusion over words such as 'transported' as they may think you're delivering cartridges as opposed to personal use.

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2 minutes ago, Windswept said:

I don't know if you're agreeing with me or having a go. 🤣

To clarify my point. I know what @Sprucey wrote but I'm querying did he actually mean 'refused' in a legal, insurance, meaning? I.e. will DL still insure the vehicle if cartridges are not carried?

I will also add, did the call centre person mean what they said? More than once I've been told the wrong thing so I would ask to speak to a manager or underwriter to clarify exactly what is covered.

There may also be confusion over words such as 'transported' as they may think you're delivering cartridges as opposed to personal use.

Sprucey, sort this have you been REFUSED  as you say or not ?

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I would think you only have to disclose the carriage of "hazardous goods", if this was the main purpose of owning the vehicle.
The occasional carriage of something that might be considered "hazardous" should not be relevant.

The next question is what is considered "hazardous", a slab of 250 shotgun cartridges is only hazardous if you drop it on your foot.
I have seen shotgun cartridges in a fire and nothing happened.
My understanding is that without a barrel to direct and confine the pressure, the load/bullet goes nowhere.

Aerosols carried in a car could be considered much more "hazardous" than loaded ammunition.
 

 

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16 hours ago, Cranfield said:

I would think you only have to disclose the carriage of "hazardous goods", if this was the main purpose of owning the vehicle.
The occasional carriage of something that might be considered "hazardous" should not be relevant.

The next question is what is considered "hazardous", a slab of 250 shotgun cartridges is only hazardous if you drop it on your foot.
I have seen shotgun cartridges in a fire and nothing happened.
My understanding is that without a barrel to direct and confine the pressure, the load/bullet goes nowhere.

Aerosols carried in a car could be considered much more "hazardous" than loaded ammunition.
 

 

and scuba tanks for filling pcp's. how long before we can't transport our own guns?

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Hi Everyone, 

Many thanks for your replies. 

 

To help clarify, They said they are willing to insure me if I remove the lock box from the car, also they said if a ammo was found in the car after an accident they wouldn't pay out. 

The supervisor I spoke with said her husband was a Clay shooter so she fully understood the situation. (I did ask who he's insured with but she couldn't disclose that info).

I will give NFU a call now and see what they say. 

I am currently still insured with Directline until the 22nd Aug so I to confirm I haven't been refused or had insurance cancelled. 

 

I will report back with NFU advice.

 

 

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On 18/08/2021 at 18:23, mgsontour said:

Just spoke to my man for you and he says it tricky as you have admitted carrying carts, petrol, camping gas etc but to find resolve he suggests you try:

Adrian Flux | Modified Car Insurance

These peeps are used to the variables of life

Hope it helps, good luck

My Land Rover is insured with Adrian Flux. Very efficient company....so far.

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4 years ago last april our local postie drove into my old xtrail head on and wrote it off on a single carraigeway back road. at the time i was on my way home from clay shooting and had my shotgun and half a slab of cartridges in the car. Admiral insurance never asked me about the contents of the car, and after a haggle about value they paid me for the written off car.  If I was transporting class A drugs I could see they may not want to insure me, or if I was people trafficking, or anything else illegal. quote-" They said they are willing to insure me if I remove the lock box from the car, also they said if a ammo was found in the car after an accident they wouldn't pay out. "   My car was recovered to the local garage and then I emptied all my personal stuff out before it was taken away by the insurance a few days later, they wouldn't know what had been in the car at the time of the accident anyway.

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I have come across this question before and the problem only arose if you were carrying or storing enough cartridges to exceed the weight limit of powder to be declared an explosive hazard, this is about 10,000 28gm cartridges.

Vic.

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