Ducks vanishing - is it a fox or something else?

[Shadowchaser]

Not sure if this is the correct section but I'd like it to receive as much response as possible from those with experience of this sort of thing.

A brief history first of all.  Myself and some friends run a small rough shoot on my land.  Since 2009 we've put ducks on one of the ponds and shot them during the season. 

We did it intermittently for a few years, but have certainly done it for the past five consecutively.

Normally we get the ducks in July (as we did this year), feed them up and usually begin shooting in October.  We bought 36 ducks this year, the same as recent years.  We might have a slight attrition rate before shooting but are usually left with a good number, plus wild ducks flighting in (some of which I believe to be ducks from previous years).

About four years ago we did have a bad year in which after the first shoot, hardly any came back but this so far has been a one off. 

This year however we appear to have met with disaster.  Of the 36 ducks we put on the pond in July, today there are only 8.  Yesterday 15 and the day before 19. 

One of the shoot members thinks they've just flown off, but I'm not convinced they can fly all that well yet.  In previous years when they start flying, they'll circle overhead (probably to get used to flying and get their bearings). All I've seen them do is flutter, a bit like hens down when they fly.

I've set up a camera on a post to see if anything is about at night.

Obviously we have foxes in the area. I think one of our hens was nabbed a couple of weeks ago by a fox on a quiet afternoon. I have indeed seen foxes around in daylight hours.  In fact one year we lost 3 hens and the cockerel.  The fox had come on a bright summers evening and must've nabbed them one at a time before our dog barked and scared it off.  When I went into the field I found the 3 hens and cock all in a line about five yards apart in the rushes.  I couldn't believe it, having had no prior experience of what they're capable of.  My thinking at the time was that they just nab the odd hen on occasion if they're really hungry or if they get into the hen house at night.  

The thing is we have 3 theories. Foxes, they've flown off or someone is stealing them. 

What do the good folks of pigeon watch think?  Would a fox manage to take 7 ducks in one night? (I know that's a naïve question based on the hen story).  Surely they'd escape to the water, depending on where they spend the night.  There is a small island in the pond that can hold maybe a dozen ducks. 

I also think I need to see if anything is flighting in at night, but considering there was food left over this morning, I doubt it. 

It's just totally stunned and stumped me. 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[London Best]

Of course a fox can/will take seven duck in one night. 
I was once called to deal with a fox which had got into some tame ducks in a shed where you would not have believed even a rat could squeeze in. It killed eighteen, I think, with two or three others mauled.

But there is usually (not always) evidence such as clumps of feathers around. If you can find a carcass, leave it where it is and wait for the fox.

[Ultrastu]

Think I will let the photo do the talking. 

42 chickens 1 night  

[Shadowchaser]

London Best - thanks.  I found two clumps of feathers on Sunday afternoon (though both sites looked to be a few days old, no blood or debris, just feathers but very similar to what it looks like when a hen has been nabbed). Yesterday I found another clump which appeared fresher but was further away from the pond. 

One problem is that the area around is thick with vegetation, thistles, nettles, brambles and long grass. So searching is difficult. I can see plenty of badger runs. 

I have flattened out a strip of land next to the pond where I've put a post in and set up my camera.  Hopefully I'll get a better idea of what's happening.  

[Ultrastu]

Following night .

[Shadowchaser]

Just now, Ultrastu said:

Think I will let the photo do the talking. 

42 chickens 1 night  

Ouch, that must be sickening. I feel sorry for you or whoever the owner is.

Would a fox manage to nab several ducks out in the wild though?  I'm trying to imagine how it works. 

Say the ducks are resting/sleeping on the side of the pond, fox comes up grabs one, it's going to make a racket, the others panic, most jump or run into the pond. So how can seven get taken in one night? 

[Vince Green]

The ducks in our local park were disappearing over a long period of time and then one was seen swimming around with a crossbow bolt sticking out of its back which rather settled the question of where they were going.

People will steal ducks except they often dont regard it as stealing, they just see it as wild food, Same as collecting mushrooms or blackberries in the woods .

Lots of them round these parts go after the crayfish

Edited August 24, 2021 by Vince Green

[islandgun]

I lost a Duck a night to an Otter, also Mink might be worth considering they will kill as many as they can drag away

[Medic1281]

11 minutes ago, islandgun said:

I lost a Duck a night to an Otter, also Mink might be worth considering they will kill as many as they can drag away

This was going to be my suggestion 

[Free range Rob]

You know foxes can swim very well don’t you ?

[snow white]

Lost 18 hens in couple hours was in garden about 6 in evening went to lock them up at 8 all gone found few dead ones over next field 

[London Best]

A now deceased farmer friend had cctv footage of a badger carrying off his turkey cock.

[Fellside]

21 hours ago, Shadowchaser said:

Ouch, that must be sickening. I feel sorry for you or whoever the owner is.

Would a fox manage to nab several ducks out in the wild though?  I'm trying to imagine how it works. 

Say the ducks are resting/sleeping on the side of the pond, fox comes up grabs one, it's going to make a racket, the others panic, most jump or run into the pond. So how can seven get taken in one night? 

Shadowchaser, sorry to hear about your vanishing ducks. 

How it usually works - is that the fox grabs a duck and the stronger ones panic and fly off. It will keep going back of course - causing more panic until your left with the weaker flyers sitting on the water. 
 

Even if the ducks aren’t flying far, and dropping in to near by fields, they are unlikely to return. Usually they fly about and find a more secure duck hotel somewhere else. 
 

If you’re finding clumps of feathers here and there it’s highly likely to be a fox. Only one solution really. 

[Shadowchaser]

19 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Shadowchaser, sorry to hear about your vanishing ducks. 

How it usually works - is that the fox grabs a duck and the stronger ones panic and fly off. It will keep going back of course - causing more panic until your left with the weaker flyers sitting on the water. 
 

Even if the ducks aren’t flying far, and dropping in to near by fields, they are unlikely to return. Usually they fly about and find a more secure duck hotel somewhere else. 
 

If you’re finding clumps of feathers here and there it’s highly likely to be a fox. Only one solution really. 

I set up my camera last night and did capture a fox walking to the pond and then away about three minutes later - not sure if it had caught anything as the image wasn't the best.  This morning I counted 7 ducks down from 8 last night, but this afternoon I counted 9.  Maybe the odd one is hiding in the reeds or they were a couple that had flown in from elsewhere. 

I hadn't considered the strong/weak flyer aspect.  That may explain why so many have disappeared pretty quickly. 

But why would they not return when it's a fox, but often do when they've been shot at? 

I guess the ducks could've flown towards the town and be sat relaxing in one of the parks right now. 

 

[Fellside]

18 minutes ago, Shadowchaser said:

I set up my camera last night and did capture a fox walking to the pond and then away about three minutes later - not sure if it had caught anything as the image wasn't the best.  This morning I counted 7 ducks down from 8 last night, but this afternoon I counted 9.  Maybe the odd one is hiding in the reeds or they were a couple that had flown in from elsewhere. 

I hadn't considered the strong/weak flyer aspect.  That may explain why so many have disappeared pretty quickly. 

But why would they not return when it's a fox, but often do when they've been shot at? 

I guess the ducks could've flown towards the town and be sat relaxing in one of the parks right now. 

 

I can only speak from experience, as I don’t honestly know for certain why they return after shooting, but not after fox attacks. I just know they clear off long term from Mr fox. If I was to give a ‘best guess’, it is possible that they associate the shooting danger with where they are shot at, i.e the gun stands round and about, and not the pond. The fox danger is directly associated with their pond. Animals do develop these place based associations. A little speculation there…….. but that’s the best I can do. 
 

Incidentally, you’ll be surprised how many little flight ponds there are dotted about, where fleeing ducks can settle. If they’re fed and secure they tend to stick around. 
 

Good luck in sorting your fox!

[Vince Green]

Just thinking out loud for a moment, a duck wouldn't understand being shot at was a mortal threat because its beyond its comprehension what being shot at means. Its just a noise but nothing happened other than a noise,

Now a face to face with a fox, thats much more real. Thats in their DNA 

[mgsontour]

Just as a curve ball, it's not unheard of for them to be stolen

[Fellside]

On 24/08/2021 at 20:18, Vince Green said:

The ducks in our local park were disappearing over a long period of time and then one was seen swimming around with a crossbow bolt sticking out of its back which rather settled the question of where they were going.

People will steal ducks except they often dont regard it as stealing, they just see it as wild food, Same as collecting mushrooms or blackberries in the woods .

Lots of them round these parts go after the crayfish

Interesting Vince. Yes they may not associate gun shots with mortal danger. Although we do know that birds get very stressed seeing another one of their kind being killed. Perhaps if a lousy shot makes a lot of noise for nothing - the ducks might not feel threatened….. 😆. 

[Vince Green]

10 hours ago, Fellside said:

Interesting Vince. Yes they may not associate gun shots with mortal danger. Although we do know that birds get very stressed seeing another one of their kind being killed. Perhaps if a lousy shot makes a lot of noise for nothing - the ducks might not feel threatened….. 😆. 

Even if they see another duck get shot it just folds and drops out of the sky. Would they associate that with sudden death? Probably not in the same way as witnessing one of their group getting ripped apart by a fox, and carried off?

[Fellside]

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

Even if they see another duck get shot it just folds and drops out of the sky. Would they associate that with sudden death? Probably not in the same way as witnessing one of their group getting ripped apart by a fox, and carried off?

I’m sure your right - they wouldn’t be as traumatised by shooting as by a natural predator. I think they have probably co-evolved with predators and have an acute awareness - and evasion strategies etc. 
 

Do they associate gun report with one of their kind tumbling out of the Skye - who could ever know for sure? 

[Shadowchaser]

It is an interesting thing to consider. 

It reminds me of that riddle.  If there are 10 pigeons sat on a branch and a farmer shoots one with a shotgun, how many will be left on the branch?  The answer is none.  The others would be frightened off by the sound of the gun.  

But I do wonder if they associate the noise of a gun with death? Probably not. It's just the loud noise that frightens them, just as loud unexpected noises can make humans jump. 

 

[Wymondley]

13 hours ago, Shadowchaser said:

It is an interesting thing to consider. 

It reminds me of that riddle.  If there are 10 pigeons sat on a branch and a farmer shoots one with a shotgun, how many will be left on the branch?  The answer is none.  The others would be frightened off by the sound of the gun.  

But I do wonder if they associate the noise of a gun with death? Probably not. It's just the loud noise that frightens them, just as loud unexpected noises can make humans jump. 

 

I've shot clays at Redbournbury shoot, some stands are across the fishing lakes.

The ducks ignore the gunfire, we're literally shooting over their heads and they aren't at all bothered.

There's a lake full of Ducks a quarter of a mile from my house, there's often a few pairs that choose to live on the green outside, so they do stray.

[ditchman]

if there was foul play...i think you would see more evidence..............it is always a risky buisness putting ducks out onto a splash or flight pond....as when established / wild duck come in and join the new ones ....it sometimes happens that the new ducks want to join their gang....and bit by bit they dissapear

just to add ...this can work the otherway around...you put a few ducks out and end up with a shed load...

[Bigbob]

I take ityou didnt put electric fencing etc round the ducks ?.  

[Shadowchaser]

5 hours ago, Bigbob said:

I take ityou didnt put electric fencing etc round the ducks ?.  

No we've never bothered.  Putting something up before next season might be an idea.  However as ditchman has said above it could also be that they strayed off with some wild ducks.  There were about six wild ducks on the pond the day we put the new ones on.