Jump to content

Cartridges for Pigeons


Recommended Posts

7 hours ago, Old Boggy said:

I see that you try the time honoured way of checking for choke MM. Finger down the end of the barrel. Love it. I too admit to have done the same.

When I first started with a 12 bore after the old single barreled .410, Eley Grand Prix 5 shot seemed to be the default cartridge along with those `bang` or `phhht` Sellior & Bellot in packs of ten. However, the cost was prohibitive for me, so I loaded my own with an old rolled turnover machine and de & recapper. Nothing very technical, just copied the powder and shot load from a Grand Prix 6 shot and away I went. Seem to recall I hit my fair share of pigeons and walked up grey partridges with the single barrel full choke BSA Snipe and duck out on the marshes. Knew very little at that time of the effect of chokes, shot sizes etc and so long as I held the gun straight, stuff used to be bagged accordingly including rabbits, all the waders and the very occasional pheasant if I was lucky enough to see one. Grey partridges were common place then and far more regularly encountered than pheasants.

These days I`m a little bit more au fait with shot sizes, chokes etc but tend to stick with fixed chokes (between IC to 1/2) and 6 shot. I think that confidence in a particular cartridge plays a major part and once the gun is seen to pattern well with a certain cartridge, any inconsistency is down to user error. In my 20 bore Macnab Highlander I find that 28 grm RC Sipe No.6s do the job so long as I do my bit. I`m currently using Eley 28 grm VIP 6s and again cannot fault them. 

OB

 

When it came to buying guns we were like master gunmakers when it came to  how we inspected the gun that we were thinking about buying , we were up our boatshed one day when an old boi from a well known wildfowling family called in and asked if we knew anyone who might be interested in a couple of old hammer s x s guns , at that time we were shooting a lot of Starlings up the allotment for practise and was thinking about leaving an old gun up their as sometimes while attending the garden you would get the odd duck dropping into one of the many dykes that border the allotments , anyhow , we said we might be interested if they aint a lot of money , having said that he went outside and untied a couple of old canvas gun sleeves that contained these two hammer guns , he laid them on our bench and the first thing we done was pushed the top lever open and looked down the barrels , a fair bit of pitting but we couldn't see any daylight not like some we had looked at , we then pulled the hammers to full cock and held them while pulling the trigger , so far so good , after it passed the first two tests the old finger test came into play , fair old bit of choke in them barrels Billy , yea their been good killers ,( a phrase we heard a lot back then ) then the last test was made before any money changed hands and that was holding it by the barrels and give it a good old shake , apart from a little rattle it wasn't that bad , so now it was the tern of the other one , apart from a louder rattle and a bit more pitting it was o k for a stand by , as for proof marks all we knew was they were nitro proof and could take 2 1/2 cartridges , that was good enough for us , now the nitty gritty , how much are you looking for Billy boy ? , well I was looking for £10 but I would be looking for the rest of my life to get that off you , you certainly would Billy and maybe a bit longer than that , I said what about a fiver for the two ?, eight , no a fiver and that's it , six quid and they are yours , cor your a hard man Billy , six quid then , we gave him a couple of quid and told him I would drop the rest round after tea , he was happy and was going to have a quick pint before he made his way home .

We were never really that interested in who made what and if they were worth anything , we left them up the gardens and used them until nowadays they would be classed as a danger to your life and they ended their days in bits scattered around various peoples houses .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, marsh man said:

When it came to buying guns we were like master gunmakers when it came to  how we inspected the gun that we were thinking about buying , we were up our boatshed one day when an old boi from a well known wildfowling family called in and asked if we knew anyone who might be interested in a couple of old hammer s x s guns , at that time we were shooting a lot of Starlings up the allotment for practise and was thinking about leaving an old gun up their as sometimes while attending the garden you would get the odd duck dropping into one of the many dykes that border the allotments , anyhow , we said we might be interested if they aint a lot of money , having said that he went outside and untied a couple of old canvas gun sleeves that contained these two hammer guns , he laid them on our bench and the first thing we done was pushed the top lever open and looked down the barrels , a fair bit of pitting but we couldn't see any daylight not like some we had looked at , we then pulled the hammers to full cock and held them while pulling the trigger , so far so good , after it passed the first two tests the old finger test came into play , fair old bit of choke in them barrels Billy , yea their been good killers ,( a phrase we heard a lot back then ) then the last test was made before any money changed hands and that was holding it by the barrels and give it a good old shake , apart from a little rattle it wasn't that bad , so now it was the tern of the other one , apart from a louder rattle and a bit more pitting it was o k for a stand by , as for proof marks all we knew was they were nitro proof and could take 2 1/2 cartridges , that was good enough for us , now the nitty gritty , how much are you looking for Billy boy ? , well I was looking for £10 but I would be looking for the rest of my life to get that off you , you certainly would Billy and maybe a bit longer than that , I said what about a fiver for the two ?, eight , no a fiver and that's it , six quid and they are yours , cor your a hard man Billy , six quid then , we gave him a couple of quid and told him I would drop the rest round after tea , he was happy and was going to have a quick pint before he made his way home .

We were never really that interested in who made what and if they were worth anything , we left them up the gardens and used them until nowadays they would be classed as a danger to your life and they ended their days in bits scattered around various peoples houses .

Lovely story there John. Those were the days. My first double barrelled gun was an old hammer gun that my Dad bought off a gamekeeper for £3.00 and I got it for my 12 th. birthday. It was Belgian made and on firing it used to break open, but still got used on the numerous rabbits and pigeons. It probably didn`t have a lot of choke in either barrel and was well worn and had pitting, but the hammers worked so that was the most important thing. Danger and risk did not form part of our vocabulary in those days. How times change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, Old Boggy said:

Lovely story there John. Those were the days. My first double barrelled gun was an old hammer gun that my Dad bought off a gamekeeper for £3.00 and I got it for my 12 th. birthday. It was Belgian made and on firing it used to break open, but still got used on the numerous rabbits and pigeons. It probably didn`t have a lot of choke in either barrel and was well worn and had pitting, but the hammers worked so that was the most important thing. Danger and risk did not form part of our vocabulary in those days. How times change.

Brilliant , Three quid seem to be the standard asking price , we got our two a little cheaper as we bought in bulk :lol:

As for safety , it's a wonder were still hear to talk about the early days , hammer guns were not the safest of guns and were the cause of many accidents , the below photo is not of me but a local fowler who wasn't that concerned he had a few bits of fingers missing , life carried on and he was known as Pintail Thomas

SAMSUNG-CAMERA-PICTURES.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, marsh man said:

Brilliant , Three quid seem to be the standard asking price , we got our two a little cheaper as we bought in bulk 

As for safety , it's a wonder were still hear to talk about the early days , hammer guns were not the safest of guns and were the cause of many accidents , the below photo is not of me but a local fowler who wasn't that concerned he had a few bits of fingers missing , life carried on and he was known as Pintail Thomas

SAMSUNG-CAMERA-PICTURES.jpg

A bit more about Little Pintail Thomas:

" Wildfowlers and Poachers, first published 90 years ago as he reflected on half-a-century along Norfolk's east coast, catches the smell of salt flats, the sight of vast, vaulting skies, clouds of wildfowl and the bustling self-absorbed village life of the late Victorian period.

Rough but endearing characters abound, most of them engaged in a ceaseless warfare between gunners nabbing rare birds to sell to collectors and "The Watcher", first warden appointed when the Close Seasons Act came into force.

Little Pintail Thomas, for example, roamed the marshes for avocets or spoonbills but returned from each foray apparently empty-handed. Then the little rascal would collect Mrs Pintail from the Bowling Green Inn, row her upstream for a spot of fresh air and then back again under the eye of "The Watcher".

However, on that return journey the inside of her petticoats would be laden with Pintail's feathered spoils. Just to keep the cold out, presumably".

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 19/09/2021 at 11:08, Whitebridges said:

In days of old I shot a lot of pigeon with Winchester Trap 100 when the were and ounce and an eighth of 7 1/2 shot. Mainly because this cartridge was used by everyone and was widely available.  Yes i've tried 28g trap loads and they work OK but there are other types that do a better job  IMO.       

Winchester trap 100- excellent cartridge back in the day - I remember an old head keeper who would buckle high pheasant with these.

Trap loads through the right choke combination will sort pigeons over decoys-I have at least convinced myself of this.

Hitman 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Whitebridges said:

A bit more about Little Pintail Thomas:

" Wildfowlers and Poachers, first published 90 years ago as he reflected on half-a-century along Norfolk's east coast, catches the smell of salt flats, the sight of vast, vaulting skies, clouds of wildfowl and the bustling self-absorbed village life of the late Victorian period.

Rough but endearing characters abound, most of them engaged in a ceaseless warfare between gunners nabbing rare birds to sell to collectors and "The Watcher", first warden appointed when the Close Seasons Act came into force.

Little Pintail Thomas, for example, roamed the marshes for avocets or spoonbills but returned from each foray apparently empty-handed. Then the little rascal would collect Mrs Pintail from the Bowling Green Inn, row her upstream for a spot of fresh air and then back again under the eye of "The Watcher".

However, on that return journey the inside of her petticoats would be laden with Pintail's feathered spoils. Just to keep the cold out, presumably".

 

One of my cherished books is a first edition of Wildfowlers and Poachers , we had one of the boatsheds on the other side of the river from where the Bowling Green pub stood , our first gun punt belonged to Diamond Allen who was mentioned in the book and was said to be one of the fastest punts on the estuary , the stakes from where the warden had his houseboat can still be seen in the Ship drain , it was certainly a hard life and I am pretty sure if I had been born 50 years earlier I would have loved to had been in their gang and been one of the Breydon Pirates .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I started shooting woodpigeons 70 years ago as soon as I was big enough to use my grandfathers 12 gauge. Back then there was a lot of ex wd Homeguard stuff about and so most of my early shooting probably incled 3s as well as 4s and 5s and pigeons seemed to fall out of the sky. Then we started to get some Impax 7s and amazingly pigeons still fell out of the sky as well as partridge and pheasant, in fact Impax 7s back then where the go too game cartridge.  Today I shoot #7s in my 410 and with full choke in both barrels kill most winged game out to 40yrds no problem, IF they are in my judgement further than that then I let them go by for another day.  

Put it in the pattern.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, the hitman said:

Winchester trap 100- excellent cartridge back in the day - I remember an old head keeper who would buckle high pheasant with these.

Trap loads through the right choke combination will sort pigeons over decoys-I have at least convinced myself of this.

Hitman 

 

A very capable cartridge, commonly used on game back then.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, marsh man said:

One of my cherished books is a first edition of Wildfowlers and Poachers , we had one of the boatsheds on the other side of the river from where the Bowling Green pub stood , our first gun punt belonged to Diamond Allen who was mentioned in the book and was said to be one of the fastest punts on the estuary , the stakes from where the warden had his houseboat can still be seen in the Ship drain , it was certainly a hard life and I am pretty sure if I had been born 50 years earlier I would have loved to had been in their gang and been one of the Breydon Pirates .

Whereabouts was the Bowling Green pub? Anywhere near the Berney Arms? 

It always amazes me what these old boys used to get up to. The stories of the "gentlemen gunners" in North Norfolk told a tale of how things were back in the day. As you will know they used to go out on the marshes and shoot the rare birds and have them stuffed and mounted.  Some of which are on display in the Norwich castle museum.            

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Whitebridges said:

Whereabouts was the Bowling Green pub? Anywhere near the Berney Arms? 

It always amazes me what these old boys used to get up to. The stories of the "gentlemen gunners" in North Norfolk told a tale of how things were back in the day. As you will know they used to go out on the marshes and shoot the rare birds and have them stuffed and mounted.  Some of which are on display in the Norwich castle museum.            

Hi Whitebridges .. The Bowling Green pub was along the North Quay , it was near the entrance of the river Bure , on the other side of the river where Asda now stand , the road is still called Bowling Green Way .

I often wonder how much of the cargo that was loaded up on the Wherries at Yarmouth was still on the boat when the Wherry got to it's destination with the different ports of call on the on the way ?

The market gunners would know when the warden came into town for provisions , while waiting for the tide to flood he would pop into the Bowling Green pub to catch up on the gossip and have a pint this would be when the trophy hunters would make there move , if a spoonbill had been sited they would have known where that would be as a lot of the estuary would be to deep for it to wallow about in the water , the fear of going to court didn't mean a thing to these rough old diamonds as it mentioned in the book that a rairity could fetch as much as a pound and the fine might only be ten shillings so they were still quids in , if that make sense :lol:  and the ten bob profit would buy a lot of beer and baccy ,   

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 21/09/2021 at 14:37, marsh man said:

Hi Whitebridges .. The Bowling Green pub was along the North Quay , it was near the entrance of the river Bure , on the other side of the river where Asda now stand , the road is still called Bowling Green Way .

I often wonder how much of the cargo that was loaded up on the Wherries at Yarmouth was still on the boat when the Wherry got to it's destination with the different ports of call on the on the way ?

The market gunners would know when the warden came into town for provisions , while waiting for the tide to flood he would pop into the Bowling Green pub to catch up on the gossip and have a pint this would be when the trophy hunters would make there move , if a spoonbill had been sited they would have known where that would be as a lot of the estuary would be to deep for it to wallow about in the water , the fear of going to court didn't mean a thing to these rough old diamonds as it mentioned in the book that a rairity could fetch as much as a pound and the fine might only be ten shillings so they were still quids in , if that make sense   and the ten bob profit would buy a lot of beer and baccy ,   

 

 

Thanks Marsh Man , I know where you mean. 
I’m not sure how often Spoonbill visit Brendon today. I can’t recall hearing of many (any) they seem to be concentrated in North Norfolk. Ten shillings would have been a big prize all those years ago especially for the good folk who hardly had a penny to rub together.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...