Fuel situation.

[Rewulf]

18 minutes ago, oowee said:

You can't simply remove upto a million from the labour force and not expect this sort of thing to happen.

Much like no one knew how many EU nationals were here before Brexit, estimates put it at x2 at least, no one really knows how many have left.
So the 1 million figure is really a stab in the dark ?

This is interesting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/56846637

"My suspicion is that a lot of people with pre-settled status may no longer be in the UK," says Madeleine Sumption, director of the Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford. "As the immigration statistics get better we should learn more, but not yet."

[Vince Green]

3 minutes ago, oowee said:

I dont doubt that these things like driver training retirement and recruitment together with poor conditions and pay add to the problem. 

 

Tanker drivers are not on poor terms and conditions. They are on the payroll and probably earn more than an MP.

Its true that the value of many jobs was brought down by an over abundance of cheap labour. To the point where it wasn't worth doing them

I would feel justified in saying one of the reasons we had to leave the EU was because we were being driven out of our own job markets.

So now the supermarkets have to step up their game, not just bleat about having no drivers. Pay the drivers a living wage, train them for their HGV and give them T &C that will make them want to stay.

not just say thats the job take it or leave it. If you don't want it step aside because there is a queue of Polish, Hungarian, Lithuanian blokes outside who will be happy to do it for less than you

[oowee]

5 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Tanker drivers are not on poor terms and conditions. They are on the payroll and probably earn more than an MP.

Its true that the value of many jobs was brought down by an over abundance of cheap labour. To the point where it wasn't worth doing them

I would feel justified in saying one of the reasons we had to leave the EU was because we were being driven out of our own job markets.

So now the supermarkets have to step up their game, not just bleat about having no drivers. Pay the drivers a living wage, train them for their HGV and give them T &C that will make them want to stay.

not just say thats the job take it or leave it. If you don't want it step aside because there is a queue of Polish, Hungarian, Lithuanian blokes outside who will be happy to do it for less than you

I am all for that but the effect will be a significant increase in living costs. We already have half the population saying they cannot survive now. Add in fuel price hikes and the truth of the situation starts to bite let alone the covid pay back costs. and the climate mitigation stuff. 

It all comes back to us living beyond our means. Living as though the world owes us. The rest of the world has moved on and we have stagnated. 

I say again, where is the plan? The current approach to decsions being made on a day to day basis is just not good enough. 

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, I don't understand this HGV shortage, why not use smaller lorries that can be driven on a full licence ? I drove one that could take quite a few pallets,

[12gauge82]

5 minutes ago, oowee said:

I am all for that but the effect will be a significant increase in living costs. We already have half the population saying they cannot survive now. Add in fuel price hikes and the truth of the situation starts to bite let alone the covid pay back costs. and the climate mitigation stuff. 

It all comes back to us living beyond our means. Living as though the world owes us. The rest of the world has moved on and we have stagnated. 

I say again, where is the plan? The current approach to decsions being made on a day to day basis is just not good enough. 

Capitalism. As living costs go up, so will wages and decent employment terms. 

We don't need a plan, market forces will drive everything just fine in the long run. 

[Vince Green]

20 minutes ago, oowee said:

I am all for that but the effect will be a significant increase in living costs. We already have half the population saying they cannot survive now. Add in fuel price hikes and the truth of the situation starts to bite let alone the covid pay back costs. and the climate mitigation stuff. 

It all comes back to us living beyond our means. Living as though the world owes us. The rest of the world has moved on and we have stagnated. 

I say again, where is the plan? The current approach to decsions being made on a day to day basis is just not good enough. 

Why should we subsidise the Polish economy by providing employment for their nationals while paying millions of our own people not to work?

Thats a plan 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Vince Green

[oowee]

9 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Capitalism. As living costs go up, so will wages and decent employment terms. 

We don't need a plan, market forces will drive everything just fine in the long run. 

😊 Ok. But that approach means we will forever be behind the curve. 

A few examples.

NHS predict a 5% increase in cancer services will only clear the patient backlog by 2033. There is no plan to provide even the 5% increase and some would say 2033 is in anycase too late.

We have a leveling up agenda for the regions whats the plan to do it? 

Fossil fuels for cars will be phased out 2030 where is the plan or process to provide the charging infrastructure? 

We need a plan.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Why should we subsidise the Polish economy while paying millions not to work? Thats a plan 

We shouldn't. The plan for free movement of labour is to have a leveling up agenda across the EU. Take it away by all means but you have to think about the consequences and put mitigation in place. 

What next allow EU drivers in on special licence( surely not), army drivers (it gets worse).

[old'un]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

 It has everything to do with Brexit. The country just lost a shed load of it's work force. The labour that remains shuffles round and something falls out the bottom. In this case drivers for tankers. 

If the shortage of lorry drivers in the UK is because of Brexit, why does Germany have a shortage of 45,000 lorry drivers?, they are still part of the EU.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

If being an HGV Driver was all it might be there would be no shortage of Drivers.

When the quality of the package rises to include good pay, good digs and good prospects, we will have to pay more but there will be no shortage of drivers.

I am allowing for all the tests cancelled during the lockdown

[243deer]

Would it be possible to start a panic buying rush on pork, we could do with higher wages in my industry

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 minute ago, 243deer said:

Would it be possible to start a panic buying rush on pork, we could do with higher wages in my industry

Anything is possible, I would be happy to eat more bacon sandwiches.

[clangerman]

19 minutes ago, 243deer said:

Would it be possible to start a panic buying rush on pork, we could do with higher wages in my industry

somebody’s making the money meat is so expensive now it spoils the taste I no longer buy any meat 

[Tonka54]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

It's excellent news, it's going to mean better pay, more jobs and driver training for British workers. For every European truck driver that's gone home, its one extra job for a British worker that may otherwise have been stuck on minimum wage. A little bit of short term disruption then a triple win. What's not to like? 

Well for instance the working environment of a commercial driver, there is a lot more to it than European drivers being forced to go home due to Brexit and would be commercial drivers waiting to take their tests. this is just the party line that the government would have the general public believe.

The reality of the situation is that for the skill, knowledge, responsibly and stress level attached to the average lot of a commercial driver, together with the appalling conditions and salary received has meant that a hell of a lot of drivers have took advantage of the furlough scheme to retrain as postmen, warehousemen and shop assistants and got the hell out of commercial driving whilst they could.

I will no doubt hear from some, that drivers are being offered free training and put through their tests paid for by the companies they will be joining, some will even be offered a cash bonus for becoming a company driver, with promises of eventual salaries in the region of £500 to £600 per week, very appealing indeed.

But the reality of it is, they will be tied to the company for several years or face paying back the company's investment in their career and the £500 to £600 per week is based on the driver doing 55 to 60 hours instead of a 37.5 hours, that's a week and half's work by my calculations.    

 

[Dougy]

It should be a bit quieter at the shooting show then tomorrow. 

[Tonka54]

1 minute ago, Dougy said:

It should be a bit quieter at the shooting show then tomorrow. 

🤣 True

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

😊 Ok. But that approach means we will forever be behind the curve. 

A few examples.

NHS predict a 5% increase in cancer services will only clear the patient backlog by 2033. There is no plan to provide even the 5% increase and some would say 2033 is in anycase too late.

We have a leveling up agenda for the regions whats the plan to do it? 

Fossil fuels for cars will be phased out 2030 where is the plan or process to provide the charging infrastructure? 

We need a plan.

 

 

We shouldn't. The plan for free movement of labour is to have a leveling up agenda across the EU. Take it away by all means but you have to think about the consequences and put mitigation in place. 

What next allow EU drivers in on special licence( surely not), army drivers (it gets worse).

This was about the fuel situation and your now going into areas of other government policy, obviously they do need planning for which is why we have a government. 

If there are certain skilled sectors we need immediate labour for we can make limited exemptions. But we ultimately need our own lorry drivers. 

[ordnance]

I remember people complaining their were no jobs, now some are complaining their are to many jobs. Maybe after the cheap labour has gone the transport hospitality etc, industry's will have to pay decent wages.

Edited September 24, 2021 by ordnance

[Scully]

Not a problem around here. Our local garage always gives preference to regular customers, and as a Landrover owner I’m up there at the top with the others! 😂

[oowee]

19 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

This was about the fuel situation and your now going into areas of other government policy, obviously they do need planning for which is why we have a government. 

If there are certain skilled sectors we need immediate labour for we can make limited exemptions. But we ultimately need our own lorry drivers. 

Yeeeeesssssss we do need our own drivers and lots of other skilled workers. So whats the plan? I am hearing temporary licences for the eu, and troops doing the driving. This is not the answer. Everything we are doing is short term sticky plaster stuff. 

 

6 minutes ago, ordnance said:

I remember people complaining their were no jobs, now some are complaining their are to many jobs. Maybe after the cheap labour has gone the transport hospitality etc, industry's will have to pay decent wages.

I have just come back from Brixham. Restaurants were shut because there was no staff. Breakfast was not being served because of no staff. The bus company had a sign appologising for the service as they were also short of staff. Even the Marina was short of cleaners and they pay very well indeed. Do we have enough people to go around? Is it just the salries that are the issue?

[Imperfection]

Local BP is shut, Shell nearby has a dwindling supply and huge queues, Esso has long queues. Cannot comment about Morrisons as i didnt look.

Funny thing i am forced to use BP as i have their fuel card with work van for diesel.

[clangerman]

same idiots queing who are stuck with 200 loo rolls for listening to the media last time obviously slow learners 

[Scully]

1 minute ago, clangerman said:

same idiots queing who are stuck with 200 loo rolls for listening to the media last time obviously slow learners 

Stuck? 🤔

[243deer]

Filled up at my local rural garage this evening, as I do every Friday, no q, no shortage. The garage is there because locals support it despite them having to charge a penny or two more per litre than the supermarkets, like Scully, my ancient L200 makes me a good customer

[Tonka54]

9 minutes ago, ordnance said:

I remember people complaining their were no jobs, now some are complaining their are to many jobs. Maybe after the cheap labour has gone the transport hospitality etc, industry's will have to pay decent wages.

You have squarely hit the nail on the head sir.

Well before Brexit or Covid companies involved in haulage positively encouraged European drivers to come over to the UK and work for them, safe in the knowledge that the poor wages they were paying UK drivers would seem like a fortune compared to what European drivers could earn back home, They could also use this situation to hold UK drivers to ransom, saying " that's the job and that's the wage, take it or leave it, there's plenty of Polish and Croatian drivers out there that would be glad of the job" .

Now millions of UK driver have indeed decided to "Leave it", the Euro's have gone home and these companies are now royally in the brown stuff.

As you say the solution to this situation is simple, treat UK pro drivers with respect, improve their working conditions and pay them a decent living wage and they will return.  

[12gauge82]

35 minutes ago, oowee said:

Yeeeeesssssss we do need our own drivers and lots of other skilled workers. So whats the plan? I am hearing temporary licences for the eu, and troops doing the driving. This is not the answer. Everything we are doing is short term sticky plaster stuff. 

 

I have just come back from Brixham. Restaurants were shut because there was no staff. Breakfast was not being served because of no staff. The bus company had a sign appologising for the service as they were also short of staff. Even the Marina was short of cleaners and they pay very well indeed. Do we have enough people to go around? Is it just the salries that are the issue?

We really don't need one, market forces will encourage companies to train and attract uk workers, I know loads of people looking into it who wouldn't have otherwise had the opportunity. It really is brilliant news.