Fuel situation.

[oowee]

2 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

We really don't need one, market forces will encourage companies to train and attract uk workers, I know loads of people looking into it who wouldn't have otherwise had the opportunity. It really is brilliant news. 

PPPPP.

I reckom we will get labour from India through our forthcoming trade deal They have a surplus of truck drivers. 

[Surfer]

Media announced shortages of fuel on end of month payday the same week as food shortages, really are most of the sheep in this country to thick to put it together?

plenty of lorries on the road and coming through ports from what I see on a daily basis, switch off to the stories pumped out by the bbc and msn and things will be fine 

[Vince Green]

1 hour ago, Tonka54 said:

.

I will no doubt hear from some, that drivers are being offered free training and put through their tests paid for by the companies they will be joining, some will even be offered a cash bonus for becoming a company driver, with promises of eventual salaries in the region of £500 to £600 per week, very appealing indeed.

But the reality of it is, they will be tied to the company for several years or face paying back the company's investment in their career and the £500 to £600 per week is based on the driver doing 55 to 60 hours instead of a 37.5 hours, that's a week and half's work by my calculations.    

 

The labour market is like a see saw. You are either on the top looking down or on the bottom looking up. Its all about who holds the upper hand. Most of the Eastern Europeans who had to go home did so because they did not have a job. They were  on contract at best and many were on agency which is even worse.

But they were ripping off nobody more than the British drivers. Same on the buildings, same on hospitality. Even our dustcarts were all manned by Eastern Europeans. That was one of the big gripes for me about Brexit. The remoaners couldn't see then (and it appears still cant see) the harm that was being done 

Paying a driver £200 a day to deliver a load is peanuts. The fuel is much more than that. Overall it probably costs many times that a day to keep a truck on the road and many loads are worth over a million

What ever happened to Knights of the road? 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Vince Green

[12gauge82]

3 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

The labour market is like a see saw. You are either on the top looking down or on the bottom looking up. Its all about who holds the upper hand. Most of the Eastern Europeans who had to go home did so because they did not have a job. They were  on contract at best and many were on agency which is even worse.

But they were ripping off nobody more than the British drivers. Same on the buildings, same on hospitality. Even our dustcarts were all manned by Eastern Europeans. That was one of the big gripes for me about Brexit. The remoaners couldn't see then (and it appears still cant see) the harm that was being done 

Paying a driver £200 a day to deliver a load is peanuts. The fuel is much more than that. Overall it probably costs many times that a day to keep a truck on the road and many loads are worth over a million

This is spot on and I think many of the remoaners who either couldn't see or didn't want to accept the fact that the foreign work force in this country supressed many uk workers wages, forcing them on to the breadline,because they were doing very well out of it all. 

26 minutes ago, oowee said:

PPPPP.

I reckom we will get labour from India through our forthcoming trade deal They have a surplus of truck drivers. 

I doubt it and hope not, what we need is uk companys to invest and train uk drivers and that will happen providing the government sticks to their guns, which I'm thankful to say they have done so far. 

Multiply this out across the work force and the UK worker should become substantially better off. Those in the top 0.1% will still be extremely wealthy instead of ridiculously wealthy. 

[Vince Green]

8 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

This is spot on and I think many of the remoaners who either couldn't see or didn't want to accept the fact that the foreign work force in this country supressed many uk workers wages, forcing them on to the breadline,because they were doing very well out of it all. 

They were creaming it because we were letting them 

My late mums carer was a teacher in Hungary. Her husband had to do some sort of National Service when he was about 18 but it was only part time because he was a student. However, just about every National Service Man in Hungary came out with an HGV licence valid through out Europe.

Coincidence? I doubt it

[bruno22rf]

So over the last year we have seen shortages of Food, Vaccines, Lorry Drivers, Blood Phials, Gas and now Petrol, I'm seriously worried that we are running out of shortages.

[Tonka54]

8 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

4 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

This is spot on and I think many of the remoaners who either couldn't see or didn't want to accept the fact that the foreign work force in this country supressed many uk workers wages, forcing them on to the breadline,because they were doing very well out of it all.

Paying a driver £200 a day to deliver a load is peanuts. The fuel is more than that. Overall it probably costs many times that a day to keep a truck on the road and many loads are worth over a million

You are both correct, these are just two of the many factors that have affected the wages of many UK born employees.

Another one is that the UK haulage industry has for many years now, stated that to be competitive they have had to cut their margins to the bone, and to increase wages would mean a catastrophic strain being put on their already tight running costs to profit margin ratio.

Whilst I can understand this being true for many smaller family run concerns, or indeed  small scale companies that are struggling to get established, it's much harder to swallow this line when you see the CEO's and upper echelons of the big transport companies liberally spread throughout the UK, swanning around in big fancy company cars wearing Omega or Rolex watches on their wrists.  

[clangerman]

1 minute ago, bruno22rf said:

So over the last year we have seen shortages of Food, Vaccines, Lorry Drivers, Blood Phials, Gas and now Petrol, I'm seriously worried that we are running out of shortages.

only thing they will run short of is scams to cause panics to make a profit 

[Vince Green]

29 minutes ago, Tonka54 said:

You are both correct, these are just two of the many factors that have affected the wages of many UK born employees.

Another one is that the UK haulage industry has for many years now, stated that to be competitive they have had to cut their margins to the bone, and to increase wages would mean a catastrophic strain being put on their already tight running costs to profit margin ratio.

Whilst I can understand this being true for many smaller family run concerns, or indeed  small scale companies that are struggling to get established, it's much harder to swallow this line when you see the CEO's and upper echelons of the big transport companies liberally spread throughout the UK, swanning around in big fancy company cars wearing Omega or Rolex watches on their wrists.  

Totally agree, whats an extra £100 a day for the driver in the grand scheme of things? small change?

Edited September 24, 2021 by Vince Green

[Old farrier]

10 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

So over the last year we have seen shortages of Food, Vaccines, Lorry Drivers, Blood Phials, Gas and now Petrol, I'm seriously worried that we are running out of shortages.

 

[Tonka54]

49 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

What ever happened to Knights of the road?

As far as I can remember they are still going strong, they are based at the side of the A14 at Kettering.😁  or is that Knights of old

Edited September 24, 2021 by Tonka54

[Vince Green]

18 minutes ago, Tonka54 said:

As far as I can remember they are still going strong, they are based at the side of the A14 at Kettering.😁  or is that Knights of old

Lorry driver was a prestige job at one time. A friend of ours Alan sadly died last year but he raised a family and lived in a lovely bungalow in Bournmouth. Retired on a comfortable pension.

He delivered cars on a transporter from Southampton docks

Edited September 24, 2021 by Vince Green

[Tonka54]

5 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Lorry driver was a prestige job at one time

Yes it was, back in the 70s if you were class one, could handle an Eaton Fuller gearbox and had the ability to rope and sheet you could pretty much right your own ticket. 

[Jaymo]

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

Totally agree, whats an extra £100 a day for the driver in the grand scheme of things? small change?

Ok, £100 per driver x 10000 drivers ( honestly don’t know how many there are) x 261 equals £261 million extra per year— who is going to pay that? Yes, we the consumer as these costs have to be passed on. 
Ever been a procurement agent or negotiation advisor for one of the major supermarkets? You will realise the implications of a haulier imposing these additional charges- you go elsewhere, you outsource overseas ( so much for having jobs for the UK) or accept the increase in costs and pass them on to your consumers. It’s a no win situation for all except your having drivers in the short term. Long term, the public resentment will prevail just as on here, to those who think that Sportsmen/Footballers/ CEO’s/ Politicians etc are overpaid and don’t deserve what they have. 
 

Im not saying this as an open ‘remoaner’, but from a realistic perspective. 
 

Oh, I know more scrappy’s, builders and car dealers who wear Rolex’s than I do CEO’s 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Jaymo

[WalkedUp]

You are missing a nought off the end of your calculation as the number of drivers is out by a considerable factor. 

[Jaymo]

24 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

You are missing a nought off the end of your calculation as the number of drivers is out by a considerable factor. 

That why I said I didn’t have a Scooby about the numbers.

If it’s 100k drives then we get this

The £264 mill becomes 2.64 billion. Still think the generals public are going to stand for that or be happy with an increase in prices.

RPI has rocketed even before all of this, the perfect storm has only just started brewing and yet people think that pushing prices up by artificially inflating wages is a good idea?

 

Just checked the ONS stats and it’s closer to 300,000 HGV drivers , so almost 8 billion pounds a year your thinking is acceptable increase in costs? Not peanuts, not small potatoes

[Tonka54]

37 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

That why I said I didn’t have a Scooby about the numbers.

If it’s 100k drives then we get this

The £264 mill becomes 2.64 billion. Still think the generals public are going to stand for that or be happy with an increase in prices.

RPI has rocketed even before all of this, the perfect storm has only just started brewing and yet people think that pushing prices up by artificially inflating wages is a good idea?

 

Just checked the ONS stats and it’s closer to 300,000 HGV drivers , so almost 8 billion pounds a year your thinking is acceptable increase in costs? Not peanuts, not small potatoes

No you are right, its not peanuts and its not small potatoes, and it not a cost that the haulage industry should bare on its own, but commercial drivers have the same rights to demand a fair days pay for a fair days work and a decent and safe working environment the same as every other UK employee.

It would not be the first time the government had stepped in to prop up a failing industry and it would not be the last. Yes we are talking big numbers but consider this, almost everything one can buy anywhere  in the UK has seen the bed of a truck at some stage.

Transportation companies and the haulage industry in general is the single most important industry In this country, and what we are seeing now is just the tip of the iceberg, something has to be done.  

[Jaymo]

10 minutes ago, Tonka54 said:

No you are right, its not peanuts and its not small potatoes, and it not a cost that the haulage industry should bare on its own, but commercial drivers have the same rights to demand a fair days pay for a fair days work and a decent and safe working environment the same as every other UK employee.

It would not be the first time the government had stepped in to prop up a failing industry and it would not be the last. Yes we are talking big numbers but consider this, almost everything one can buy anywhere  in the UK has seen the bed of a truck at some stage.

Transportation companies and the haulage industry in general is the single most important industry In this country, and what we are seeing now is just the tip of the iceberg, something has to be done.  

At what stage does a Government have to say ‘no’ to bail outs all the time and to private firms at that! Why should they? If you mismanage your finances, should they bail you out too? 
There is no magic money tree to ‘sub’ each and every industry without further tax and NI increases. That would be on top of the increases passed onto the consumers already.

Fair wage for a fair days pay, safe environment.

Your industry as is mine, is regulated but where there are regulation and limitations, there will always be those striving to make maximum efficiency and gains by working you to the max.

Many on here know my profession, we’re limited on hours per day. Depending on start times, then these limits vary.

But like you, it’s not just the actual time worked within the legal constraints, but the numerous days spent living out of a suitcase that goes with it.

We don’t particularly like that aspect, but it’s part of the job and we accept that as it was known before embarking on this career path.

Dont tell me that people entering the haulage industry didn’t expect long irregular hours and sleeping in the cab. 

[Dave-G]

Problem baling out firms is senior management keep getting their massive payments.

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by Dave-G

[12gauge82]

As with all industries, wages are driven by supply and demand. Truck drivers wages have been artificially supprresed for years due to foreign labour. The wage now needs to rebound if the country wants more drivers. 

[Nuke]

In another 10 years there will be autonomus delivery trucks everywhere so I doubt truck drivning is future proof.

/M

[WalkedUp]

7 hours ago, Jaymo said:

The £264 mill becomes 2.64 billion.

I accept that you caveated your figures, wasn’t trying to be snarky if that is how I came across - just add more impact to the reality. The updated estimate looks more realistic for the “£100 a day is peanuts”. £2.64bn is a decent chunk for GDP. If we then assume 30 million working people in the UK excluding the “benefit scroungers” (mainly being pensioners, ‘lay-abouts’, single mums, immigrants, disabled people and children), it gives £88 per person per year from take home pay with the effective tax rate (for working men) in the UK under Boris being about 35% (effective tax is the medley of income tax, NI, employer’s NI, VAT, corporation tax, CGT, stamp duty etc) to it gives £117 for each  man and woman who contributes to the UK’s economic output to find each year. I have many friends who are professional HGV drivers and would happily see their pay increase so it seems a reasonable sacrifice. But you need to do the same exercise for fruit pickers, slaughtermen, labourers etc which suddenly becomes a massive increase in the cost of living. That is fine, but we need to find some low hanging fruit for where the money comes from. The NHS? Or our welfare system? ... I know which big group of long term welfare scroungers I would be looking to target, these being the wealthiest most able to contribute group that get an insane amount of none-means-tested tax payer’s money each year.... I will keep quiet about this however as if said it would possibly be the most unpopular statement ever made on PW or possibly in politics. 🤣

The figures above are estimates from memory, so like Jaymo said they may be wrong. The bear-poking however is deliberate. The way we better fund our  country is to get more people into work. 

[mossy835]

im down at praa sands for the week. and all the garages are full with people filling up.because some said dont panic buy.

[12gauge82]

As lower and middle income earners get paid closer to what they should earn, the cost of products will go up, but those products will still be more affordable to those groups, not to mention housing, fuel, gas, electric, food and other essentials. In the long run, it'll be more money in the working masses pockets and less in the big corporations ceo off shore accounts. 

This is one of the many benefits I voted for with brexit. 

[WalkedUp]

15 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

those products will still be more affordable to those groups, not to mention housing, fuel, gas, electric, food and other essentials

True 👍