2 Million households will go into Heating Fuel Poverty this Winter, and about the same going to Food Banks, 21st Century Poverty

[12gauge82]

4 minutes ago, clangerman said:

of coarse not and vouchers would certainly help stamp out scammers my problem is painting dirt bags after a house with 80 grand in the bank (my little clanger busted her) from those who are in real trouble 

Thanks, my post just looked awful after I posted it and read yours above it, was worried you'd think it was aimed at your daughter. 

Your right and it's what makes me angry, people taking help away from those genuinely in need. Imagine what could be done to help genuine people, if we could somehow eliminate those that don't need it. 

[Mice!]

11 minutes ago, oowee said:

Absoloutely. But... what do you do about it. Taking benefits will result in higher state costs through prison populations and dealing with social fall out. 

You have to provide an alternative carrot and stick but also a pathway out of poverty. Otherwise you get what we have now chaos, political splits, left and right swinging policy direction, rich and poor and a slow wind down to the back of the que. 

I would start with compulsory community work,  orange overalls 6hrs a day litter picking or such like, rather than being able to sit at home doing as they like.

That at least would would make the next generation think differently, hopefully make them realise it would be better to work.

[clangerman]

1 minute ago, 12gauge82 said:

Thanks, my post just looked awful after I posted it and read yours above it, was worried you'd think it was aimed at your daughter. 

Your right and it's what makes me angry, people taking help away from those genuinely in need. Imagine what could be done to help genuine people, if we could somehow eliminate those that don't need it. 

must admit list after houses dropped real sharp since she  took control one of those check check and check again types but other side is how grateful the genuine are many women write letters of thanks just for being safe again not a way for anyone to live 

[oowee]

15 hours ago, Mice! said:

I would start with compulsory community work,  orange overalls 6hrs a day litter picking or such like, rather than being able to sit at home doing as they like.

That at least would would make the next generation think differently, hopefully make them realise it would be better to work.

And unfortunately its that attitude if trying poenalise those less fortunate than the average that results in the rest continuing to pay. Rather than work through the problem its far to easy to exacerbate the situation by blaming the victims. 

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

And unfortunately its that attitude if trying poenalise those less fortunate than the average that results in the rest continuing to pay. Rather than work through the problem its far to easy to exacerbate the situation by blaming the victims. 

Many aren't victims though, they are happily sitting at home living off handouts,  they know how to play the system and their kids then do the same.

Being forced to do something for the community would stop those who are claiming and working because they couldn't do both, so would probably be better off working. 

It would also hopefully put some community pride back into areas.

Do you think that people should be able to claim and take handouts but give nothing back?

[B725]

Some people make a career out of claiming and that's the problem, we have some round here that are just out and out bone idle but it dosnt matter as someone else will fund their lifestyle. The genuine people should definitely get help but there has to be a purge on the scroungers. 

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, B725 said:

Some people make a career out of claiming and that's the problem, we have some round here that are just out and out bone idle but it dosnt matter as someone else will fund their lifestyle. The genuine people should definitely get help but there has to be a purge on the scroungers. 

/\  Exactly this.  If the scroungers were weeded out - the system could be more generous with those in genuine need like the sick and disabled.

[oowee]

36 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Many aren't victims though, they are happily sitting at home living off handouts,  they know how to play the system and their kids then do the same.

Being forced to do something for the community would stop those who are claiming and working because they couldn't do both, so would probably be better off working. 

It would also hopefully put some community pride back into areas.

Do you think that people should be able to claim and take handouts but give nothing back?

I dont doubt it but you have to win hearts minds and wallets. You can try forcing but it wont get you anywhere other than increasing crimes and filling prisons. You have to show them a more attractive route out of poverty. Encourage them to want to change. I am sure that there are some only too happy in their world of benefits but I am sure there are many more that want out but can't see how to get there. 

Its a bit like the overweight, the unfit or those that drink too much. They might want to change that lifestyle and some will do that. Equally there are far more that cannot see a way out and can't break free from the procrastination that afflicts them. Indeed they may not even know there is an issue. 

[Wymondley]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

I dont doubt it but you have to win hearts minds and wallets. You can try forcing but it wont get you anywhere other than increasing crimes and filling prisons. You have to show them a more attractive route out of poverty. Encourage them to want to change. I am sure that there are some only too happy in their world of benefits but I am sure there are many more that want out but can't see how to get there. 

Its a bit like the overweight, the unfit or those that drink too much. They might want to change that lifestyle and some will do that. Equally there are far more that cannot see a way out and can't break free from the procrastination that afflicts them. Indeed they may not even know there is an issue. 

I actually agree with most of that, I just don't think you can incentivise these people, they've all been at it too long.

Generations of families that have never worked, lazy uneducated parents that breed lazy uneducated children, who then become the same again as parents.

We need to break the cycle, difficult with the adults but you could start with the kids!

Proper basic education, core skills along with pride and respect, doable?

I think so, it would be a start, but first we need to make changes to both teachers and teaching.

And that's a whole different discussion.

 

[Mice!]

22 minutes ago, Wymondley said:

just don't think you can incentivise these people, they've all been at it too long.

 

22 minutes ago, Wymondley said:

We need to break the cycle, difficult with the adults but you could start with the kids!

Proper basic education, core skills along with pride and respect, doable?

I think so, it would be a start, but first we need to make changes to both teachers and teaching.

The problem is the two things don't go together,  if you aren't being pushed and encouraged at home then the teachers can only do so much.

24 minutes ago, Wymondley said:

Generations of families that have never worked, lazy uneducated parents that breed lazy uneducated children, who then become the same again as parents.

It seems totally alien to me, we understood that my dad wanted to work but simply couldn't,  his body just couldn't do it.

3 hours ago, oowee said:

am sure that there are some only too happy in their world of benefits but I am sure there are many more that want out but can't see how to get there. 

There will be some who would be no better off working,  like a single parent with a couple of kids, the costs of child care would make it pointless,  but there will be lots who have simply never worked and never intend to, they won't be encouraged to work.

[Vince Green]

23 hours ago, clangerman said:

show me a man who has not done a job on the side or some sort of fiddle at least once and I will show you a liar there’s a word for those who live in glass houses hypocrite 

I've never done a job on the side so you can call me a liar. What I have done is always paid an accountant to sort out my tax affairs . I've made much more money being honest than I ever would have made ducking and diving

[clangerman]

11 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

I've never done a job on the side so you can call me a liar. What I have done is always paid an accountant to sort out my tax affairs . I've made much more money being honest than I ever would have made ducking and diving

had more than one accountant myself think a good one should qualify as a fiddle lol 

[old man]

On 09/10/2021 at 19:32, Wymondley said:

I actually agree with most of that, I just don't think you can incentivise these people, they've all been at it too long.

Generations of families that have never worked, lazy uneducated parents that breed lazy uneducated children, who then become the same again as parents.

We need to break the cycle, difficult with the adults but you could start with the kids!

Proper basic education, core skills along with pride and respect, doable?

I think so, it would be a start, but first we need to make changes to both teachers and teaching.

And that's a whole different discussion.

 

Someone mentioned the other day that their rate of family increase was more than the normal too?

[amateur]

1 hour ago, old man said:

Someone mentioned the other day that their rate of family increase was more than the normal too?

Of course, when all you are doing is alternating between home and pub, you have to have some recreation.

[ehb102]

On 09/10/2021 at 19:32, Wymondley said:

I actually agree with most of that, I just don't think you can incentivise these people, they've all been at it too long.

Generations of families that have never worked, lazy uneducated parents that breed lazy uneducated children, who then become the same again as parents.

We need to break the cycle, difficult with the adults but you could start with the kids!

Proper basic education, core skills along with pride and respect, doable?

I think so, it would be a start, but first we need to make changes to both teachers and teaching.

And that's a whole different discussion.

 

You need to make sure the children aren't turning up to school hungry. 

My good friend works at a school where 65% of the children are marked as "vulnerable" or "at risk". They had to set up donations of food because children who aren't fed can't concentrate. So breakfast at school became the norm.  Now you can claim that some parents out there are buying cigs and drink instead of feeding their children, but the numbers are just too high now to be anything other than systemic poverty. You have to get people's basic needs - food, clothes, shelter, safety- before they can change. 

=

[Saltings]

On 08/10/2021 at 21:38, Krico woodcock said:

Southern Ireland is a lot different today I'm afraid saltings..dole here is up on highest rates than anywhere. Do absolutely nothing for top benefits.  Generations of families, know how to work system and bleed it dry. Laugh at lads getting up to go to work.

now this saddens me  its not the country i left         i was brought up to work      my kids work       mrs and i supported our kids      bellies were full  warm clothes and footwear    taught them kill it cook it eat it and forage       dislexic as hell   i  helped my kids to simplifie problems and work it out     the boys and girls  hunt and stalk and dress a carcase  they love  fresh anything      maybe  to move forward  we have to go back to basics  stop blaming government  get an alotment or back garden grow your own and hunt and  avoid  tescos      eat healthy         i cant stand **** pork  

[old man]

Sadly, again, it's no good caring too much because obviously the ones who can create change to make things better don't give a rodents derriere about such lowly matters?

I don't see any politico giving a flying fig about any rising cost as they just claim it back on expenses, giving us again the opportunity to pay it for them?

[Wymondley]

On 12/10/2021 at 15:14, ehb102 said:

You need to make sure the children aren't turning up to school hungry. 

My good friend works at a school where 65% of the children are marked as "vulnerable" or "at risk". They had to set up donations of food because children who aren't fed can't concentrate. So breakfast at school became the norm.  Now you can claim that some parents out there are buying cigs and drink instead of feeding their children, but the numbers are just too high now to be anything other than systemic poverty. You have to get people's basic needs - food, clothes, shelter, safety- before they can change. 

=

65%? I do wonder why, with such systemic poverty these people had children in the first place?

Just saying.

 

[Mice!]

52 minutes ago, Wymondley said:

65%? I do wonder why, with such systemic poverty these people had children in the first place?

Just saying.

 

I understand people want kids, we would be in a sorry state if people weren't having kids, it's when people don't work but have 3,4,5 kids that's when the problems start.

[ehb102]

15 hours ago, Wymondley said:

65%? I do wonder why, with such systemic poverty these people had children in the first place?

Just saying.

 

Wow. Just saying. 

 

[Rewulf]

15 hours ago, Wymondley said:

65%? I do wonder why, with such systemic poverty these people had children in the first place?

More kids  = More benefits = More money for fags , booze , drugs = Kids go wanting, grow up with no self respect/education = Cycle repeats....

 

[ehb102]

It's just like Jonathan Swift was writing today. 

[Wymondley]

23 hours ago, ehb102 said:

It's just like Jonathan Swift was writing today. 

Ironic that such a remark would go over the heads of most of these poor kids.

Perhaps if they had the education we were fortunate enough to receive there'd be less (perceived) poverty.

When I left school I knew nothing of how many genders there were, I could however read, write, budget for my lifestyle and realise I shouldn't have children I couldn't support.

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Wymondley