12gauge82 Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 https://www.change.org/p/strengthen-the-ban-on-fox-hunting Over 300k signatures and rising fast. Anyone want to go against the public and support the hunts on this, I guarantee we'll loose. The public won't tolerate hunting fox with hounds so If anyone thinks the public will tolerate our or any other sport treating dogs like this, I think your in for a shock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 15 hours ago, JDog said: Are you really surprised by the comments from some of the twits on this forum? You have been on long enough to have worked them out by now. The twits are the ones that do the idiotic things highlighted by this thread or try to defend it. I absolutely guarantee you, that is what will destroy our sport, not calling out bad practices within it. Killing of BOP, mistreatment of dogs, illegal hunting of fox with hounds in breach of the law. The public will turn on us and it'll be the end of shooting as we know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 13 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: You miss the point I'm trying to make. Dogs have evolved separately from wolves for 10s of thousands of years, we don't choose if they are a working tool or not, they have evolved to be more than that. Anyone who uses a dog purely as a tool to be used and deposed of, neglects that ancestry and fails to understand what dogs truly are. Pet dogs, a couple of working dogs in the home yes, but a kennel full of hounds is different. It's far worse seeing the dogs which are left in small yards/gardens chained up and under fed, look at the numbers of dogs abandoned every year or that need to be rescued from so called dog lovers. This just fits what the antis want, bad press for the hunts, but don't worry they'll get to pheasant shooting when there done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Mice! said: but don't worry they'll get to pheasant shooting when there done. Exactly and we'll have the likes of 12guage82 and his like to thank for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Jaymo said: But did you not say you worked Terriers for year on Rats? Maybe you should go campaign for Insulate Britain with that sort of hypocrisy? no I did not say I hunted rats insulate can protect their self from having their brains blown out by so called best friends 10 minutes ago, CharlieT said: Exactly and we'll have the likes of 12guage82 and his like to thank for it. only ones you will need to thank are those making excuses for hunting if you think I’m going to support those who condone cruelty your in for a long wait Edited October 10, 2021 by clangerman misspell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 11 minutes ago, Mice! said: Pet dogs, a couple of working dogs in the home yes, but a kennel full of hounds is different. It's far worse seeing the dogs which are left in small yards/gardens chained up and under fed, look at the numbers of dogs abandoned every year or that need to be rescued from so called dog lovers. This just fits what the antis want, bad press for the hunts, but don't worry they'll get to pheasant shooting when there done. Yep some of the other disgusting ways dogs are treated is also wrong, but like the saying goes, two wrongs don't make a right. I disagree, a dog should be treated properly, whether a kennel full or not. What has caused the fuss and given the antis what they want, is when the antis catch the shooting/hunting community doing something illegal or just plain wrong. That's what will lead to the end of our sport. 11 minutes ago, CharlieT said: Exactly and we'll have the likes of 12guage82 and his like to thank for it. That's right, blame me for calling people from my own community out when they do wrong. I'm sure if I support killing bop, hunting fox with hounds and mistreatment of dogs, our sport will sail along with public just fine, not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 28 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: https://www.change.org/p/strengthen-the-ban-on-fox-hunting Over 300k signatures and rising fast. Anyone want to go against the public and support the hunts on this, I guarantee we'll loose. The public won't tolerate hunting fox with hounds so If anyone thinks the public will tolerate our or any other sport treating dogs like this, I think your in for a shock. Go against is one thing, but your adding your nail. But, it’s your choice of course 31 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: https://www.change.org/p/strengthen-the-ban-on-fox-hunting Over 300k signatures and rising fast. Anyone want to go against the public and support the hunts on this, I guarantee we'll loose. The public won't tolerate hunting fox with hounds so If anyone thinks the public will tolerate our or any other sport treating dogs like this, I think your in for a shock. Your signing a petition to strengthen the hunting ban, not to ban the euthanising of dogs via firearms!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Mossy410 said: As for having a go at other field sports, as soon as one gets banned then all the antis move on to the next sport then the next and so on until all we have left is catapults in the garden /\ This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 (edited) I may be wrong, but isn’t this petition over four years old? Some of the comments date back four years? Reading some of the comments from those signing it, show that it’s not just fox hunting that they think should be banned- all forms of hunting!!!!!! Fair few references to ‘posh ****’ and their chums who hunt- obv never attended a hunt then for spread of social standings. Edited October 10, 2021 by Jaymo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 11 minutes ago, Jaymo said: Your signing a petition to strengthen the hunting ban, not to ban the euthanising of dogs via firearms!!!!!! Yep, because hunting fox with hounds needs to be resigned to the history books, or they'll drag shooting down with it. I've already stated earlier why I disagree with what many hunts do. 2 minutes ago, Jaymo said: I may be wrong, but isn’t this petition over four years old? Some of the comments date back four years? Reading some of the comments from those signing it, show that it’s not just fox hunting that they think should be banned- all forms of hunting!!!!!! Fair few references to ‘posh ****’ and their chums who hunt- obv never attended a hunt then for spread of social standings. I in no way stand with antis, just like most everyone else on here, I shoot and hunt. But this is what they've bought on themselves and will bring on shooters to if we're seen to support it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: Yep, because hunting fox with hounds needs to be resigned to the history books, or they'll drag shooting down with it. I've already stated earlier why I disagree with what many hunts do. Might as well sign this one and the countless others too over all aspects of the sport we follow. ( there are few calling for air gun and guns in general if you wish) https://www.change.org/p/uk-government-stop-shooting-birds-for-sport I might just start one banning people from petitioning to ban things ‘just because they don’t like them’, or just one against model railway enthusiasts 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: Yep, because hunting fox with hounds needs to be resigned to the history books, or they'll drag shooting down with it. I've already stated earlier why I disagree with what many hunts do. I in no way stand with antis, just like most everyone else on here, I shoot and hunt. But this is what they've bought on themselves and will bring on shooters to if we're seen to support it. spot on the money no end of positive publicity for shooting on offer by agreeing with the public so instead of taking the gift horse we support the cruelty of hunting if brains were dynamite we wouldn’t have enough to blow our noses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: I've already stated earlier why I disagree with what many hunts do. I in no way stand with antis, just like most everyone else on here, I shoot and hunt. If you hunt why on earth are you so vehemently against it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, Jaymo said: Might as well sign this one and the countless others too over all aspects of the sport we follow. ( there are few calling for air gun and guns in general if you wish) https://www.change.org/p/uk-government-stop-shooting-birds-for-sport I might just start one banning people from petitioning to ban things ‘just because they don’t like them’, or just one against model railway enthusiasts 🙂 Your choice,i certainly wouldn't, but my thoughts are shooting dogs will get shooting banned quicker than signing that petition. 1 minute ago, CharlieT said: If you hunt why on earth are you so vehemently against it. I'm not, but just like I wouldn't set gin traps, I don't support hunting fox with hounds and all that often goes with It, it should be resigned to history, If you read back through my posts on here, I've already stated why Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 29 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: If you hunt why on earth are you so vehemently against it. I suspect that he does not follow the hunt. The issue is the probable misuse of the word “hunt”, which in English means to pursue or chase, and so is used for hunting with hounds. To shoot live quarry is not properly referred to as ‘hunting’. A ‘hunter’ is a horse not a person. However it is a very common mistake made on the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 26 minutes ago, WalkedUp said: I suspect that he does not follow the hunt. The issue is the probable misuse of the word “hunt”, which in English means to pursue or chase, and so is used for hunting with hounds. To shoot live quarry is not properly referred to as ‘hunting’. A ‘hunter’ is a horse not a person. However it is a very common mistake made on the forum. Yeah sorry, when I say hunt and shoot, I shoot and have done a bit of ferreting in my time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhastings Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 We should all be in this together. I have not even looked at what the post is initially about. But I gather a hunts man shot his dog which as long as it was done well is ok. Not some thing I could do personally. As for hunting with hounds and using terriers nothing wrong with it. Yes things can get a bit intense for want of a better word but it is or was part of country life and should have remained so. Hare coursing was a beautiful sport as is running a dog against a hare. It is shameful it was ever banned. All I see in this thread is I am all right jack and I think I am so much better than the rest of them. Bloody shameful every one should have stood together back in 2004 because they had not got it passed the shooting world would also be in better shape than it is now with likes of packham ripping us apart and walking all over us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 21 minutes ago, captainhastings said: We should all be in this together. I have not even looked at what the post is initially about. But I gather a hunts man shot his dog which as long as it was done well is ok. Not some thing I could do personally. As for hunting with hounds and using terriers nothing wrong with it. Yes things can get a bit intense for want of a better word but it is or was part of country life and should have remained so. Hare coursing was a beautiful sport as is running a dog against a hare. It is shameful it was ever banned. All I see in this thread is I am all right jack and I think I am so much better than the rest of them. Bloody shameful every one should have stood together back in 2004 because they had not got it passed the shooting world would also be in better shape than it is now with likes of packham ripping us apart and walking all over us You've nailed it. 24 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: Yeah sorry, when I say hunt and shoot, I shoot and have done a bit of ferreting in my time. Have you ever even been to a kennel then or followed a hunt? It's the big target because of class simple as that, that's why pheasant and grouse shooting will be next, they'd like to ban fishing as well but that is unlikely to ever happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 I totally get the emotion created over the shooting of a dog, I really do, but these are working animals, just like some horses and other domesticated animals. Shooting when done properly is instantly humane, and the only reason I couldn’t do it to a dog of mine ( which are pets as well as working dogs ) is because it would upset me to see the effect of shooting in the head of an animal I loved. We all know it’s not pretty. I know keepers and farmers who have done it however, and as far as I can see, the only mistake the hunt made was allowing themselves to be filmed doing it, and as they were doing nothing illegal, but the filming was achieved via trespassing, we can hardly condemn the hunt for that. There does seem to be rather a lot of hypocrisy however, there’s even one critic stating he followed hounds and worked his own terriers, yet as cruel as hunting with hounds he claims to be, it would seem he played an active role! Others are shooters of live quarry for recreation, and while we strive to make it as clean and painless as possible, there won’t be many on here who haven’t crippled quarry. I know I’m repeating myself, and I’m aware we all need to get our houses in order, but if anyone believes that the banning of fox hound packs is going to save shooting, then they are seriously deluded. Shoots have been filmed with shot pheasants flapping about on the ground, and bouncing after thumping off the ground, to be chased or seized by dogs, or in one case whacked on the noggin by Liz, all of which attracts much wringing of hands and emotional claptrap from antis and the general public alike. Sign the petition if you choose, but it won’t make one bit of difference to the way shooting of live quarry is perceived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 38 minutes ago, Mice! said: You've nailed it. Have you ever even been to a kennel then or followed a hunt? It's the big target because of class simple as that, that's why pheasant and grouse shooting will be next, they'd like to ban fishing as well but that is unlikely to ever happen. Part of what I do is work with dogs for a living, many in a kennel environment, in a very niche role. I've never had anything to do with the hunt, or their packs and neither would I. but I have seen some of my local hunts clearly breaking the law and trespassing on farmers land, damage property and then have the cheek to abuse the land owner. Like I said in an earlier post, imo many are their own worst enemy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 1 hour ago, WalkedUp said: I suspect that he does not follow the hunt. The issue is the probable misuse of the word “hunt”, which in English means to pursue or chase, and so is used for hunting with hounds. To shoot live quarry is not properly referred to as ‘hunting’. A ‘hunter’ is a horse not a person. However it is a very common mistake made on the forum. Which end is the 'half'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 16 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: I have seen some of my local hunts clearly breaking the law and trespassing on farmers land, damage property and then have the cheek to abuse the land owner. My local hunt come on my land in some years. They ring before hand when they expect they may come our way to check it is OK, give me a contact number, and sometimes (if they have actually been on my land) - ring afterwards to check all is OK. I have been out and 'observed' last time they came (2019 I think) and nothing illegal was going on. I am certain of that. I can't say I particularly welcome it, but many locals do and both mounted and pedestrian followers are having a nice day out. None masked, no threatening or filming, just country people having a day out. I'm therefore always prepared to give my consent as are I believe ALL other local landowners. I have not seen any 'antis' here - but have seen on TV masked people hiding their identity, threatening posters/banners, threatening behaviour, trespass etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 58 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: My local hunt come on my land in some years. They ring before hand when they expect they may come our way to check it is OK, give me a contact number, and sometimes (if they have actually been on my land) - ring afterwards to check all is OK. I have been out and 'observed' last time they came (2019 I think) and nothing illegal was going on. I am certain of that. I can't say I particularly welcome it, but many locals do and both mounted and pedestrian followers are having a nice day out. None masked, no threatening or filming, just country people having a day out. I'm therefore always prepared to give my consent as are I believe ALL other local landowners. I have not seen any 'antis' here - but have seen on TV masked people hiding their identity, threatening posters/banners, threatening behaviour, trespass etc. They sound better behaved than two hunts I've come across in my travels. Although you make it sound like they tell you rather than ask you to come on your land, unless it's just how I've read it? The thing is, what I've talked about is far from uncommon, I know lots of people with the same experience. Tell me that you honestly don't believe lots of hunts act in the manner I've experienced myself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: They sound better behaved than two hunts I've come across in my travels. Although you make it sound like they tell you rather than ask you to come on your land, unless it's just how I've read it? The thing is, what I've talked about is far from uncommon, I know lots of people with the same experience. Tell me that you honestly don't believe lots of hunts act in the manner I've experienced myself? They tell me when they will be having their meet in the area and ask if it is OK if the trail leads them across my land. Since for the last large number of years (my fathers time before me) it was OK, I suspect they assume it will be OK. In fact - they rarely come on my (very modest sized) bit of land. Both local estates are probably 10 times the size of my area each. I can only speak for the local hunt - but when I have seen them, they have been behaving - and I have not heard from others that they don't. Since there are lots of "I saw/saw a video/heard of this/that/the other by the hunt/sabs ....... " (i.e lots of hearsay) on both sides of the argument, I will only report on my personal experience which is limited to my own very local area and that of people/local landowners I know well some of whom follow the hunt (on foot in my friends cases) - and all I have heard is of the hunt being law abiding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 On 08/10/2021 at 19:35, 12gauge82 said: I actually just signed their petition. Out dated sport carried out by a bunch of pompous idiots who will end up ruining it for all of us. Many have absolutely no respect for others land or property and I know of lots of farmers who've had fences ruined, gates left open, livestock scared and been abused by the idiots trespassing. The sooner the laws updated to close the loop holes and the ones who continue are prosecuted, the better. I respect your opinion but signing their petition, really ? This act can’t be condoned but this divisive attitude is exactly what will finish ALL field sports, even yours. on a separate note I wonder what the antis will do then 🤷🏼♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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