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Fox hounds and the Anti footage


Dougy
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1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

They tell me when they will be having their meet in the area and ask if it is OK if the trail leads them across my land.  Since for the last large number of years (my fathers time before me) it was OK, I suspect they assume it will be OK.  In fact - they rarely come on my (very modest sized) bit of land.  Both local estates are probably 10 times the size of my area each.

I can only speak for the local hunt - but when I have seen them, they have been behaving - and I have not heard from others that they don't.  Since there are lots of "I saw/saw a video/heard of this/that/the other by the hunt/sabs ....... " (i.e lots of hearsay) on both sides of the argument, I will only report on my personal experience which is limited to my own very local area and that of people/local landowners I know well some of whom follow the hunt (on foot in my friends cases) - and all I have heard is of the hunt being law abiding.

Absolutely fair enough, I'm certainly not stupid enough to tar everyone with the same brush. People are people and there will always be good, bad and everything in between whatever Hoby someone does. Thanks for the explanation 👍

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36 minutes ago, spanj said:

I respect your opinion but signing their petition, really ? This act can’t be condoned but this divisive attitude is exactly what will finish ALL field sports, even yours.

on a separate note I wonder what the antis will do then 🤷🏼‍♂️

Your right it's not a smart move.

If I'm honest I'm just sick of the disrespect shown to dogs, they are the most loyal animals ever to be on this planet, some people just don't deserve them. 

 

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4 hours ago, old'un said:

I shouldn't worry as I honestly believe that what we do today (shooting, hunting, call it what you will) will not be acceptable in 20 years from now, or it maybe sooner.

I would like for both of us to be wrong but I agree. I worked as a volunteer in stables 2004, couldn't comprehend that one day a legal activity became illegal overnight. 

Then fishing ?

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the various hunt sab groups are all very active on FaceBook

I advise anyone who thinks shooting will be safe once hound work is finished to look at Calder Valley Hunt Sabs posts on Facebook for yesterday.  Just one of many Sab groups out there looking to really ruin your day.

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36 minutes ago, scolopax said:

the various hunt sab groups are all very active on FaceBook

I advise anyone who thinks shooting will be safe once hound work is finished to look at Calder Valley Hunt Sabs posts on Facebook for yesterday.  Just one of many Sab groups out there looking to really ruin your day.

you only have to open a pigeons crop and anyone can see both proof of a need for control and the culprit unlike those foolish enough to anger the public pigeon shooting can prove its case the one go all go rubbish to get support won’t fly this time 

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7 hours ago, clangerman said:

you only have to open a pigeons crop and anyone can see both proof of a need for control and the culprit unlike those foolish enough to anger the public pigeon shooting can prove its case the one go all go rubbish to get support won’t fly this time 

So which is it? One minute you're driving around not being able to find any pigeons to shoot, next you’re claiming pigeon shooting can prove its case. image.jpeg.ba920313a95dad3535b12fdcfc48b6b4.jpeg

You really need to think through what you post. Shooters kill many more foxes than hunts do. Do you really think that Packham, Avery etc are going to leave you alone to shoot pigeons….if you can find any? 

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7 hours ago, clangerman said:

you only have to open a pigeons crop and anyone can see both proof of a need for control and the culprit unlike those foolish enough to anger the public pigeon shooting can prove its case the one go all go rubbish to get support won’t fly this time 

The biggest problem with pigeon shooting  is we say crop protection in the spring yes it is  but when we shoot on stubble the crop has been harvested your not protecting  it then 

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Until i read this thread i forgot why i rarely come on here now.

I think some of u live in a different planet, very different to me esp as alleged shooting men.

 

1282, u claim to hunt but actually only shoot and ferret and all throu thread have claimed all hunts are acting illegally but then in the last page admit u only have knowledge of 2 hunts, i have no idea if they were acting illegally or not or how often they do but the whole thread u have been tarring every hunt with the same brush.

In scotland the hunting law is completely different and most hunts are well within the law

 

With ur in depth knowledge of dogs, now i've never been a huntsman or really followed hunts very much, althou done a fair bit with a travelling gun pack over the years so not unfamilar with hounds and there husbandry.

But i would imagine the vast majority of hounds will never have been inside a building/house (depending on how they were puppy walked) or been to a vets and will struggle to walk on a lead.

So are u really suggesting putting a hound into a motor, on its own (very unusual for an adult hound) travelling to a vets its never seen before taking it inside a building when its never been in 1 before on a lead to get it PTS is less stress free than the huntsman who its known all its life quietly talking it to the side possibly putting a handful of grub on the deck and BANG, i bet the hounds tail never stopped wagging until it was over.

For me that is a far less stressful way to go and actually shows more respect to the animal.

Just beccause ur taking an animals life dosen't automatically mean ur not respecting it/them

I mind working back on the F&M crisis the best slaughter man i worked with with either tickle difficult cows ears or rub it forehead to relax it and get a good position the captive bolt, seen other more abitoir men almost wrestling with the cow to position its head, big difference but end result is the same

 

A hound will have a better lifestyle than most dogs couped up in a city flat/house and because the owners have no idea about training are unable to ever let it of the lead.

 

In scotland there are large areas of land where fox control is almost impossible with out the hounds, and is hard enough even with hound packs.

Hunting is not really my thing but long may it continue in scotland the way it does now, althou with the axis of evil in power (snp/greens coilition) i'd bet its days are numbered

 

Clangerman if u think pigeon shooting is safe ur living in cloud coockoo land, every year the GL is legally challenged now, if things carry on the way there going now and continue to accelerate it really is only a matter of time before u are only allowed to shoot pigeons on the actual crop there causing damage too.

So no stubble shooting, no roost shooting, its already borderline shooting a pigeon as part of a driven or rough days shooting now

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14 hours ago, old'un said:

I shouldn't worry as I honestly believe that what we do today (shooting, hunting, call it what you will) will not be acceptable in 20 years from now, or it maybe sooner.

My own thoughts too, rats and cheese, one day all gone?

Every advantage given by the lawless is taken by the establishment to turn the screw to their overall gain?

Edited by old man
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8 hours ago, clangerman said:

you only have to open a pigeons crop and anyone can see both proof of a need for control and the culprit unlike those foolish enough to anger the public pigeon shooting can prove its case the one go all go rubbish to get support won’t fly this time 

Do you honestly think the antis and the general public give a flying **** about you controlling pigeon numbers, no, most if not all see you/us as someone who blasts wildlife out of the sky, you can argue with them till you are blue in the face but you will never win the argument that what you/we are doing is justified in the name of crop protection, “pigeon shooting can prove its case” no it cannot.

Get your head out of the clouds mate.

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1 minute ago, old'un said:

Do you honestly think the antis and the general public give a flying **** about you controlling pigeon numbers, no, most if not all see you/us as someone who blasts wildlife out of the sky, you can argue with them till you are blue in the face but you will never win the argument that what you/we are doing is justified in the name of crop protection, “pigeon shooting can prove its case” no it cannot.

Get your head out of the clouds mate.

+1

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29 minutes ago, scotslad said:

Until i read this thread i forgot why i rarely come on here now.

I think some of u live in a different planet, very different to me esp as alleged shooting men.

 

1282, u claim to hunt but actually only shoot and ferret and all throu thread have claimed all hunts are acting illegally but then in the last page admit u only have knowledge of 2 hunts, i have no idea if they were acting illegally or not or how often they do but the whole thread u have been tarring every hunt with the same brush.

In scotland the hunting law is completely different and most hunts are well within the law

 

With ur in depth knowledge of dogs, now i've never been a huntsman or really followed hunts very much, althou done a fair bit with a travelling gun pack over the years so not unfamilar with hounds and there husbandry.

But i would imagine the vast majority of hounds will never have been inside a building/house (depending on how they were puppy walked) or been to a vets and will struggle to walk on a lead.

So are u really suggesting putting a hound into a motor, on its own (very unusual for an adult hound) travelling to a vets its never seen before taking it inside a building when its never been in 1 before on a lead to get it PTS is less stress free than the huntsman who its known all its life quietly talking it to the side possibly putting a handful of grub on the deck and BANG, i bet the hounds tail never stopped wagging until it was over.

For me that is a far less stressful way to go and actually shows more respect to the animal.

Just beccause ur taking an animals life dosen't automatically mean ur not respecting it/them

I mind working back on the F&M crisis the best slaughter man i worked with with either tickle difficult cows ears or rub it forehead to relax it and get a good position the captive bolt, seen other more abitoir men almost wrestling with the cow to position its head, big difference but end result is the same

 

A hound will have a better lifestyle than most dogs couped up in a city flat/house and because the owners have no idea about training are unable to ever let it of the lead.

 

In scotland there are large areas of land where fox control is almost impossible with out the hounds, and is hard enough even with hound packs.

Hunting is not really my thing but long may it continue in scotland the way it does now, althou with the axis of evil in power (snp/greens coilition) i'd bet its days are numbered

 

Clangerman if u think pigeon shooting is safe ur living in cloud coockoo land, every year the GL is legally challenged now, if things carry on the way there going now and continue to accelerate it really is only a matter of time before u are only allowed to shoot pigeons on the actual crop there causing damage too.

So no stubble shooting, no roost shooting, its already borderline shooting a pigeon as part of a driven or rough days shooting now

Re Read my posts, all the way through the thread I've said many hunts act illegally, not all, but many, because they do, I'm a massive supporter of keeping our shooting rights, I can assure you it's absolutely laughable to imply I'm some sort of snowflake, but I simply call it as I see it. If you are involved in the hunts you know full well what goes on across the country and that's enough said on that. 

As for how the hounds are treated I absolutely agree a working life is better than most pets while they have it, however, tell me many hunts don't kill healthy 5 or 6yo hounds to be replaced by younger ones, or the practice in some hunts of shooting the fastest and slowest hounds in the pack. 

I can assure you dogs that live in kennels can absolutely be rehomed, I'm involved in a very specific area working with and training extraordinary dogs that I won't post on the net, I can assure you these are not your average dog, let alone your average pet and it takes incredible amounts of work to attempt to rehomed one of these dogs when they retire at 4 or 5, if any dog I worked had to be disposed of I'd take that as a massive failure on my part, they're simply worth more than that and they're unwavering loyalty should be rewarded. 

My issue isn't shooting a dog that is suffering and needs to be euthanized, it's shooting otherwise healthy dogs that are simply being replaced by younger fitter dogs and the other illegal practices that are widespread across the country. 

Like I said earlier hunting fox with hounds is a past time that legally is banned and has been for a long time, it needs to go in the history books and stay there, something like 90% of the public are absolutely against it, where as counterary to popular belief, thats not so with shooting. If we in the shooting community start banging on about supporting behaviour like mentioned above (which for the reasons I've stated I wouldn't anyway, as I've never agreed with it, due to the treatment of the hounds and hunts behaviour by some hunts), they'll come for us to, I guarantee it. 

14 minutes ago, old'un said:

Do you honestly think the antis and the general public give a flying **** about you controlling pigeon numbers, no, most if not all see you/us as someone who blasts wildlife out of the sky, you can argue with them till you are blue in the face but you will never win the argument that what you/we are doing is justified in the name of crop protection, “pigeon shooting can prove its case” no it cannot.

Get your head out of the clouds mate.

Got to be honest, when I go shooting, I get far more comment from interested people, than anything negative, I really don't think the vast majority of people are against it, the ethics involved in shooting are generally brilliant. 

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10 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Re Read my posts, all the way through the thread I've said many hunts act illegally, not all, but many, because they do, I'm a massive supporter of keeping our shooting rights, I can assure you it's absolutely laughable to imply I'm some sort of snowflake, but I simply call it as I see it. If you are involved in the hunts you know full well what goes on across the country and that's enough said on that. 

As for how the hounds are treated I absolutely agree a working life is better than most pets while they have it, however, tell me many hunts don't kill healthy 5 or 6yo hounds to be replaced by younger ones, or the practice in some hunts of shooting the fastest and slowest hounds in the pack. 

I can assure you dogs that live in kennels can absolutely be rehomed, I'm involved in a very specific area working with and training extraordinary dogs that I won't post on the net, I can assure you these are not your average dog, let alone your average pet and it takes incredible amounts of work to attempt to rehomed one of these dogs when they retire at 4 or 5, if any dog I worked had to be disposed of I'd take that as a massive failure on my part, they're simply worth more than that and they're unwavering loyalty should be rewarded. 

My issue isn't shooting a dog that is suffering and needs to be euthanized, it's shooting otherwise healthy dogs that are simply being replaced by younger fitter dogs and the other illegal practices that are widespread across the country. 

Like I said earlier hunting fox with hounds is a past time that legally is banned and has been for a long time, it needs to go in the history books and stay there, something like 90% of the public are absolutely against it, where as counterary to popular belief, thats not so with shooting. If we in the shooting community start banging on about supporting behaviour like mentioned above (which for the reasons I've stated I wouldn't anyway, as I've never agreed with it, due to the treatment of the hounds and hunts behaviour by some hunts), they'll come for us to, I guarantee it. 

Got to be honest, when I go shooting, I get far more comment from interested people, than anything negative, I really don't think the vast majority of people are against it, the ethics involved in shooting are generally brilliant. 

Well said and a point well made :good:

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On 10/10/2021 at 09:20, Jaymo said:

And yet they are seen a source of food in many other nations without the emotional attachment! Is that wrong? In your eyes of course, but not to them. 

By domestication of any animal, we take away the part in their nature that is their instincts for our own desires- you could argue that how is that not cruel?

Is ‘training’ or ‘obedience’ expectations from you dog, not some form of control and by disallowing their freedoms to do as they please, not some form of cruelty. You are after all, shaping them to your desires and not their own! 

You and others view them as pets and loyal to the bone. 
Yet abandon that animal and allow it to produce, those offspring will show a different demeanour and psyche.

By applying sentience to everything these days then surely it’s only a matter of time before we go all ‘fluffy’ over earth worms and gardening will be banned in case we accidentally ‘spade’ one!

Its a case of ‘Chip Chip Chip’

Good post Jaymo. Spot on!    NB

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41 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

 Got to be honest, when I go shooting, I get far more comment from interested people, than anything negative, I really don't think the vast majority of people are against it, the ethics involved in shooting are generally brilliant. 

I am glad that the few people you have encountered were not against shooting but if tomorrow a vote was put before the general public to ban all killing/shooting of wildlife I wonder what the outcome would be?

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1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

 

My issue isn't shooting a dog that is suffering and needs to be euthanized, it's shooting otherwise healthy dogs that are simply being replaced by younger fitter dogs and the other illegal practices that are widespread across the country. 

 

Your comment ‘and other illegal practices’ implies that shooting dogs is illegal, it isn’t. 
I doubt the RSPCA shoot dogs, but don’t they destroy countless numbers of healthy dogs that no one wants? 
You only have to read through this forum to realise that our adversaries are many. They are opposed to ALL field sports and the shooting of live quarry for recreation. The banning of one will simply mean they move onto the next, and then the next etc etc. Surely you realise that? 

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55 minutes ago, old'un said:

I am glad that the few people you have encountered were not against shooting but if tomorrow a vote was put before the general public to ban all killing/shooting of wildlife I wonder what the outcome would be?

If its as bad as you think , then it would have already been desided ,I honestly  belive a vast percentage  of our population  are not bothered either way . It is only the anti trying to gain support . We are a population  of  66 million .out of those figures what percentage  have they got . It is only those that having nothing to do in there lives , have  no lives of there own , try to spoil it for other . When we were kids in the 50s there was no talk of this , we were only to happy there was food on the table. 

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9 minutes ago, Scully said:

Your comment ‘and other illegal practices’ implies that shooting dogs is illegal, it isn’t. 
I doubt the RSPCA shoot dogs, but don’t they destroy countless numbers of healthy dogs that no one wants? 
You only have to read through this forum to realise that our adversaries are many. They are opposed to ALL field sports and the shooting of live quarry for recreation. The banning of one will simply mean they move onto the next, and then the next etc etc. Surely you realise that? 

The RSPCA does indeed put down dogs they can't find homes for. The latest figure I read was over 7000 a year. 

Perhaps 1282 should offer them his magic wand, or is it that the RSPCA is more realistic in that putting them down is the kindest thing to do.

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19 minutes ago, Scully said:

Your comment ‘and other illegal practices’ implies that shooting dogs is illegal, it isn’t. 
I doubt the RSPCA shoot dogs, but don’t they destroy countless numbers of healthy dogs that no one wants? 
You only have to read through this forum to realise that our adversaries are many. They are opposed to ALL field sports and the shooting of live quarry for recreation. The banning of one will simply mean they move onto the next, and then the next etc etc. Surely you realise that? 

No Im absolutely aware of that, what I meant was, the fact they shoot healthy dogs and the separate issue that many hunts regularly break the law. 

I'm no fan of the rspca either, if anything they're the worst of the lot. 

If it were up to me, dog ownership should be regulated and anyone getting rid of a dog because it doesn't match their handbag ect, forced to pay a heavy fee for it to be rehomed. 

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2 hours ago, old'un said:

if tomorrow a vote was put before the general public to ban all killing/shooting of wildlife I wonder what the outcome would be?

sooner we have a vote the better I’m sick of people refusing to stop turning the public against us lets have our lesson learnt the hard way and be done with it 

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