Fox hounds and the Anti footage

[zipdog]

10 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

We would be in a much better position in this country if the only option to get rid of a dog you have bought was to shoot it in the head yourself. At least the hunt are responsible dog owners, not passing on problems for other people to sort out.

I have dipped in and out of this thread because I genuinely find the hysteria and hypocrisy quite perplexing. I am not judging people for those views, or wishing to convert them, but just fail to comprehend how they hold such competing beliefs. 

I have also stayed out of this thread as I find it perplexing. 

All of the backlash seems to be that the hound was shot. The shooting community relies upon the fact that killing an animal, if needed, is justifiable as long as it is done quickly and humanly, and shooting is the most humane means of achieving this. 

The hound, from what I could see, could barely walk, and the shot was accurate and placed to ensure nearly instant death. So i am unsure why the big backlash. 

 

[clangerman]

25 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

At least the hunt are responsible dog owners, not passing on problems for other people to sort out.

turns out I know these clowns they control everything and everyone in the area if it wasn’t for friends living there I would be making a police statement right now that’s how responsible and law abiding they are 

[WalkedUp]

Hi Clangerman, we agree on many things but I do not fully understand here. I feel like I am only getting half the story at times. Please can you explain? 

If it relates to other things to do with hunting then it may be better we start a separate thread on hunting in general? There is too much conflation of other issues as well as the subject of this video. I do not hunt, due to lack of means, so whilst I would have no qualm in defending hunting I probably am not knowledgeable enough to do so adequately. 

[clangerman]

21 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

Hi Clangerman, we agree on many things but I do not fully understand here. I feel like I am only getting half the story at times. Please can you explain? 

If it relates to other things to do with hunting then it may be better we start a separate thread on hunting in general? There is too much conflation of other issues as well as the subject of this video. I do not hunt, due to lack of means, so whilst I would have no qualm in defending hunting I probably am not knowledgeable enough to do so adequately. 

rather not cause trouble for friends living there lets just say two of us can name and identity people and what they are up to most of the times we see them but thanks for asking and don’t worry the cat will get skinned cruel people always get theirs 

[12gauge82]

7 hours ago, clangerman said:

turns out I know these clowns they control everything and everyone in the area if it wasn’t for friends living there I would be making a police statement right now that’s how responsible and law abiding they are 

And there we have it!

I don't know anything of this hunt but I have witnessed many shady practices committed by others and heard of many more again through friends as I'm sure many of us have, unfortunately it's anything but uncommon so this post doesn't suprise me in the slightest. 

Supporting those that do wrong is going to do us no favours, it's the same when the thankfully rare killing of BOP occurs, rather than make excuses for the perpetrators, we as a community need to call it out. 

 

[Scully]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

And there we have it!

I don't know anything of this hunt but I have witnessed many shady practices committed by others and heard of many more again through friends as I'm sure many of us have, unfortunately it's anything but uncommon so this post doesn't suprise me in the slightest. 

Supporting those that do wrong is going to do us no favours, it's the same when the thankfully rare killing of BOP occurs, rather than make excuses for the perpetrators, we as a community need to call it out. 

 

There we have what? 
 

[12gauge82]

9 minutes ago, Scully said:

There we have what? 
 

One would have to presume A first hand account of witnessed illegal behaviour of the hunt. Unless I haven't understood the post. It shows what I've been saying through this thread is correct, it's not like killing of bop where there's one or two rotten apples among thousands. Illegal practices by hunts are fairly widespread and I personally won't associate or support their cause as a shooter. 

[Rim Fire]

10 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

One would have to presume A first hand account of witnessed illegal behaviour of the hunt. Unless I haven't understood the post. It shows what I've been saying through this thread is correct, it's not like killing of bop where there's one or two rotten apples among thousands. Illegal practices by hunts are fairly widespread and I personally won't associate or support their cause as a shooter. 

What these persons have done is not  illegal the thread is about what they have done shooting dogs not what they might have done on another occasion 

Why do you keep bringing up about BOP the thread is about dogs 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Rim Fire

[Scully]

6 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

One would have to presume A first hand account of witnessed illegal behaviour of the hunt. Unless I haven't understood the post. It shows what I've been saying through this thread is correct, it's not like killing of bop where there's one or two rotten apples among thousands. Illegal practices by hunts are fairly widespread and I personally won't associate or support their cause as a shooter. 

From someone who has obviously done nothing about it in the past, and to all intents and purposes states they intend to do nothing about it now? 
Even those who shot the film haven’t filmed anything illegal. It’s going to take a bit more than hearsay. 

 

[12gauge82]

6 minutes ago, Scully said:

From someone who has obviously done nothing about it in the past, and to all intents and purposes states they intend to do nothing about it now? 
Even those who shot the film haven’t filmed anything illegal. It’s going to take a bit more than hearsay. 

 

This is in no way aimed at you, but Ive seen certain things with my own eyes, trusted friends have told me the same, clangerman clearly has to. It's common knowledge, it's people who shoot who are saying it for crying out loud, they're hardly going to be antis lying to stir up trouble, it simply seems to me many don't want to accept it.

In no way am I saying its all hunts, but imo there are many that break the law, there's certainly many who conduct questionable practices, or at the very least conduct themselves in a way the overwhelming majority of the general public find abhorrent. For the hunts it's over, it's never coming back, something I'm personally glad of, but feel free to feel different. I will not support them, particularly after the way I've seen some and heard others act. It is my belief that if the shooting community got behind them, all we'd achieve anyway would be to end shooting via association, it still wouldn't bring them back. 

18 minutes ago, Rim Fire said:

What these persons have done is not  illegal the thread is about what they have done shooting dogs not what they might have done on another occasion 

Why do you keep bringing up about BOP the thread is about dogs 

I keep bringing bop up because I see the same issue. On the rare occasions BOP are illegally killed, (and yes more times than not antis attempt to unfairly put the blame on us) but when there is an illegal killing many in the shooting community won't accept it, just like they won't accept some hunts often act illegally. 

[Scully]

28 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

This is in no way aimed at you, but Ive seen certain things with my own eyes, trusted friends have told me the same, clangerman clearly has to. It's common knowledge, it's people who shoot who are saying it for crying out loud, they're hardly going to be antis lying to stir up trouble, it simply seems to me many don't want to accept it.

In no way am I saying its all hunts, but imo there are many that break the law, there's certainly many who conduct questionable practices, or at the very least conduct themselves in a way the overwhelming majority of the general public find abhorrent. For the hunts it's over, it's never coming back, something I'm personally glad of, but feel free to feel different. I will not support them, particularly after the way I've seen some and heard others act. It is my belief that if the shooting community got behind them, all we'd achieve anyway would be to end shooting via association, it still wouldn't bring them back. 

I keep bringing bop up because I see the same issue. On the rare occasions BOP are illegally killed, (and yes more times than not antis attempt to unfairly put the blame on us) but when there is an illegal killing many in the shooting community won't accept it, just like they won't accept some hunts often act illegally. 

I’m not defending the hunt at all. Like I’ve said, I’m not really a fan but on the whole totally indifferent really. 
This thread started about the killing of hounds, which while unpleasant isn’t illegal, and it’s now developed into allegations of illegal activity surrounding hunts.
You yourself are now admitting you’ve witnessed illegal activities; did you do anything about it? Now another has stated he knows what goes on but hasn’t done anything about it either, and has no intention of doing so! 🤷‍♂️

[12gauge82]

5 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’m not defending the hunt at all. Like I’ve said, I’m not really a fan but on the whole totally indifferent really. 
This thread started about the killing of hounds, which while unpleasant isn’t illegal, and it’s now developed into allegations of illegal activity surrounding hunts.
You yourself are now admitting you’ve witnessed illegal activities; did you do anything about it? Now another has stated he knows what goes on but hasn’t done anything about it either, and has no intention of doing so! 🤷‍♂️

I think it's all connected really, it's how the public view the hunt. What they did in the video isn't illegal. 

No I didn't do anything about it, although I absolutely don't agree with it, I wasn't going to report them, but neither will I support them. 

[Scully]

31 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I think it's all connected really, it's how the public view the hunt. What they did in the video isn't illegal. 

No I didn't do anything about it, although I absolutely don't agree with it, I wasn't going to report them, but neither will I support them. 

I appreciate your honesty. 👍

[12gauge82]

1 minute ago, Scully said:

I appreciate your honesty. 👍

Cheers mate. You always ask good questions, that challenge my though process tbf, always an interesting post from you. 👍

And on that I'm going to leave this one here, I've already had more than my say on the subject 

[clangerman]

some people are simply above the law with control of your home life and employment you have little choice but to be a victim or suffer no doubt the fools in this could remove my wilts perms with one phone call or cause major misery for friends it’s a standing joke with each other how they treat people even the police are deaf dumb and blind to their behaviour only concern for them is guarding the fools piles and worthless hides that said above the law is not above being punished 

[CharlieT]

I rather think this forum needs a change of name...................how about "Anti Field Sports Watch", where all and sundry can post disgraceful, unsubstantiated claptrap with the sole purpose of bringing about the end of country sports in general. 

[scotslad]

Considering the thread is about euthanasing ur own dogs ur now calling for all hunting to be banned???

From wot i can gather the didn't do it after or during the meet or take them down the local high street to do it, they done it in wot should be a private place out of the publics view and by all accounts very humanely.

Also dunno how good the footage was but how can u tell the hound was 5 years old?? U mention that quite a bit, hell i struggle to tell my own dogs ages by looking at them without getting the paper work out. Yet u can tell a strange hounds age from short video clips. Impressive

Dont know much about the mounted packs but with the guns packs i've been out with hounds were a lot older than 5 or 6, really just coming into there prime at that age.

 

U say all hunts dont act illegally but still call for it to be banned?

Following on from this logic u'd also ban greyhound and horse racing as some animals may be 'retired' earlier than natural.

Wot about working farm dogs many of them will do the short 1 way walk when to old for work.

 

 

I'm so glad u don't have anything to do with traffic enforcement/driving, with ur logic all driving should be banned as some cars speed.

Or banning drink as some folk get drunk, become alcholics.

 

There is lots of things i dont like but i don't automatically want them banned.

 

No wonder fieldsports are on such a shooglie peg nowadays, the anti's must be absolutely wetting themselves that threads like this exist.

8 pages about someone shooting his own dog/hound so ill had to be carried.

U just couldn't make it up.

Divide and conquer.

 

And if u think the antis actually really care about this or would stop if/when hunting gets banned ur sadly mistaken.

Just move on to next target, driven shooting as there doing with grouse at minute, then rough shooting, gun ownership and fishing will all be targets further down the line.

They will never be happy until we're all eating tofu and soya grown in a cut down rain forrest o the other side of the world.

U know all to save the planet and that

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, scotslad said:

And if u think the antis actually really care about this or would stop if/when hunting gets banned ur sadly mistaken.

Just move on to next target, driven shooting as there doing with grouse at minute, then rough shooting, gun ownership and fishing will all be targets further down the line.

+1

[JDog]

Well done Scotslad. That should be the final word on this thread but I doubt that the main protagonist has quite finished yet.

[12gauge82]

4 hours ago, scotslad said:

Considering the thread is about euthanasing ur own dogs ur now calling for all hunting to be banned???

From wot i can gather the didn't do it after or during the meet or take them down the local high street to do it, they done it in wot should be a private place out of the publics view and by all accounts very humanely.

Also dunno how good the footage was but how can u tell the hound was 5 years old?? U mention that quite a bit, hell i struggle to tell my own dogs ages by looking at them without getting the paper work out. Yet u can tell a strange hounds age from short video clips. Impressive

Dont know much about the mounted packs but with the guns packs i've been out with hounds were a lot older than 5 or 6, really just coming into there prime at that age.

 

U say all hunts dont act illegally but still call for it to be banned?

Following on from this logic u'd also ban greyhound and horse racing as some animals may be 'retired' earlier than natural.

Wot about working farm dogs many of them will do the short 1 way walk when to old for work.

 

 

I'm so glad u don't have anything to do with traffic enforcement/driving, with ur logic all driving should be banned as some cars speed.

Or banning drink as some folk get drunk, become alcholics.

 

There is lots of things i dont like but i don't automatically want them banned.

 

No wonder fieldsports are on such a shooglie peg nowadays, the anti's must be absolutely wetting themselves that threads like this exist.

8 pages about someone shooting his own dog/hound so ill had to be carried.

U just couldn't make it up.

Divide and conquer.

 

And if u think the antis actually really care about this or would stop if/when hunting gets banned ur sadly mistaken.

Just move on to next target, driven shooting as there doing with grouse at minute, then rough shooting, gun ownership and fishing will all be targets further down the line.

They will never be happy until we're all eating tofu and soya grown in a cut down rain forrest o the other side of the world.

U know all to save the planet and that

I'm not going to reply to the individual points as I feel I've had more than my say on all this already and addressed most of them if you read back anyway. 

Its just my view and everyone is obviously welcome to theirs 👍

[roadkill]

4 hours ago, scotslad said:

Considering the thread is about euthanasing ur own dogs ur now calling for all hunting to be banned???

From wot i can gather the didn't do it after or during the meet or take them down the local high street to do it, they done it in wot should be a private place out of the publics view and by all accounts very humanely.

Also dunno how good the footage was but how can u tell the hound was 5 years old?? U mention that quite a bit, hell i struggle to tell my own dogs ages by looking at them without getting the paper work out. Yet u can tell a strange hounds age from short video clips. Impressive

Dont know much about the mounted packs but with the guns packs i've been out with hounds were a lot older than 5 or 6, really just coming into there prime at that age.

 

U say all hunts dont act illegally but still call for it to be banned?

Following on from this logic u'd also ban greyhound and horse racing as some animals may be 'retired' earlier than natural.

Wot about working farm dogs many of them will do the short 1 way walk when to old for work.

 

 

I'm so glad u don't have anything to do with traffic enforcement/driving, with ur logic all driving should be banned as some cars speed.

Or banning drink as some folk get drunk, become alcholics.

 

There is lots of things i dont like but i don't automatically want them banned.

 

No wonder fieldsports are on such a shooglie peg nowadays, the anti's must be absolutely wetting themselves that threads like this exist.

8 pages about someone shooting his own dog/hound so ill had to be carried.

U just couldn't make it up.

Divide and conquer.

 

And if u think the antis actually really care about this or would stop if/when hunting gets banned ur sadly mistaken.

Just move on to next target, driven shooting as there doing with grouse at minute, then rough shooting, gun ownership and fishing will all be targets further down the line.

They will never be happy until we're all eating tofu and soya grown in a cut down rain forrest o the other side of the world.

U know all to save the planet and that

100% spot on, I think are generation is the last to enjoy such past times as hunting, fishing and even racing, such a shame my grandkids probably won't enjoy the same freedoms as myself. This post is a fine example that even us on the inside can't agree and this will eventually be our undoing and the end to all field sports 

[scotslad]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

I'm not going to reply to the individual points as I feel I've had more than my say on all this already and addressed most of them if you read back anyway. 

Its just my view and everyone is obviously welcome to theirs 👍

 

I know the gun pack i shot for for quite a few years as they run small numbers of hounds u got to know the individual hounds and the regulars would help as assitant whipers in, and esp in poor scenting conditions it was the older dogs who produced the goods and held on tricky scent when the younger 1's wouldn't.

Again no idea there actual age but many were running as long as i can remember, old colonal must of been a fair old age well past 10 unless it was just a ghost as hounds don't live that long?

 

Aye but  signing petions like this u are trying to take away others choices/freedoms.

 

Do u believe foxes should be controlled at all?

Even as i believe the law stands down south ( and not massively clued up as shoot north of the wall, but 2 dogs i believe) shooting a fox on a rough day even on ur own is illegal if u have more than 2 dogs with u.

How are u going to control foxes in more remote areas with large areas of whins ( gorse), blackthorn or massive forestry blocks if u cant use a dog to flush them?

 

Even if everything u say is 100% true any more legislation can have a far reaching effect on other aspects of shootng or predator control.

Its fairly strict as it is using a dog at all may become illegal, wot if u would a fox on the lamp/NV/thermal would u be alowed to follow it up with ur dog? many keepers often lamp with a GWP purely for that reason.

 

I very very rarely lift a gun to a woodcock now, thats my choice and suits my morals but i would never dream of forcing that on others or signing a petion to ban it.

 

Make absolutlely no mistake no matter how lowly or working class u think ur chosen sport is the antis want to ban it.

Esp since WJ came about they are going down a far more clever route targeting the fringes and the laws ( like GL's)

U may think they'll never ban pigeon shooting or ferreting for an example, but they have already tried very hard with pigeon shooting and the GL.

For me its an absolute no brainer that pigeons ned to be controlled same with rabbits or foxes for the massive damage they cause to agriculture but the way modern society is turning sand growing more urban do u really think they care about a farmers losses??

U think they'll never ban shooting rabbits? Hell they've tried to force a ban on shooting mountian/blue hares throu in scotland. To those that dont know they absolutely thrive on well managed grouse moors because of the cracking habitat and are the nearest thing to a rabbit u'll get on the high ground.

 

Even shooting foxes, badger probably do far more harm to wildlife now than foxes do and are protected, hell foxes only eat meat anyway so once they ban us from eating meat be no need for foxing.

 

Even the various trophy hunting legislation being talked about at moment, a lot will depend on how it goes but very possible that keeping an antler of any deer could be classed as a trophy and so illegal.

When legislation is brought in it is never a good thing and with very urban governements small changes can have far larger un meant consequences.

 

Same with WWT and RSPB spending members money doing research about lead contamination in game meats, has no bearing on there work just an alternative way to curb shooting, and working very well.

When the lead ban comes into affect it will have massive implications on airguns and rimfire rifles paticularlly

as well as target shooting all just collateral damage.

 

When u want a fieldsport banned be very careful wot u wish for, as it will not stop thee antis and only drive them on to target more fieldsports/freedoms as justifies there strange ideals

 

2 hours ago, roadkill said:

100% spot on, I think are generation is the last to enjoy such past times as hunting, fishing and even racing, such a shame my grandkids probably won't enjoy the same freedoms as myself. This post is a fine example that even us on the inside can't agree and this will eventually be our undoing and the end to all field sports 

 

Very sad but true, and even now i'd say living in rural scotland freedoms i knew as a kid are massively frowned on now. U just couldn't do half the stuff i done as a kid , really not that long ago

Very sad and sadly speeding up rapidly esp since the internet became a thing and when u have some of the attitudes highlighted here amongst fellow shooters we really are screwed.

Bad enough antis peddling lies and half truths as gospel without doing it to ourselves.

U often see the same when u get other shooters on about grouse shooting too

[captainhastings]

Stand together simple from the fella out with his lurcher for a bit of sport to the man in his tweed on a high bird day. Unfortunately all ready to late for some but we need to unite and fight tooth and claw for what is left.

[JDog]

That is heartfelt Scotslad unlike the diatribe that emanates from the trolls on this thread.

[12gauge82]

4 minutes ago, JDog said:

That is heartfelt Scotslad unlike the diatribe that emanates from the trolls on this thread.

I wasn't going to comment any further but since it's obvious your referring to me, which has nothing to do with this thread I will. I'm really not a troll, I'm simply worried about the image of our sport as I've replied several times. 

At what point is it okay to close your eyes to certain practices, I've already given one like the killing of bop and there are many others. I'm obviously not comparing that to legally euthanising dogs as happened on this occasion, but you can't deny the hunts have done their fair share of shady practices. 

Anyway to sum up I have my opinion, you have yours, it doesn't make me or you a troll, although at least I've made a contribution, your just constantly chucking digs my way.