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Fox hounds and the Anti footage


Dougy
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I left it yesterday pointless thread now bound to be a vote which we wouldn’t win if rigged for us thanks to the excuses we would be flogging a dead dog (pun intended) we refuse to end needless cruelty so millions of dog lovers are going to end it and us at the same time why even discuss nobody listens it’s like we want to learn the hard way 

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46 minutes ago, clangerman said:

I left it yesterday pointless thread now bound to be a vote which we wouldn’t win if rigged for us thanks to the excuses we would be flogging a dead dog (pun intended) we refuse to end needless cruelty so millions of dog lovers are going to end it and us at the same time why even discuss nobody listens it’s like we want to learn the hard way 

don't know about millions of dog lovers, so far there is less than a 1000...https://www.change.org/p/uk-parliament-ban-the-inhumane-killing-of-hunt-dogs-in-the-u-k?source_location=petitions_browse

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21 hours ago, scotslad said:

 

Just move on to next target, driven shooting as there doing with grouse at minute, then rough shooting, gun ownership and fishing will all be targets further down the line.

They will never be happy until we're all eating tofu and soya grown in a cut down rain forrest o the other side of the world.

U know all to save the planet and that

Very true words, what a bleak future, half the country planted to scrub, crawling with introduced predators, no native flora/fauna left and a diet of expensive avocado and tofu imported from a burnt bit of rainforest in Brazil.. my god i'm glad im old...🤨

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28 minutes ago, islandgun said:

a diet of expensive avocado and tofu

It's (apparently) what the young, or at least a lot of them, want.  Block the motorways to save the climate, but fly to Spain for holidays and eat imported (flown in) avocados.  It's called being environmentally friendly.

Now burn a bit of heather to encourage young growth that wildlife needs to eat - and you are destroying the planet - but leave it there to get long and woody - so that when it gets a fire (lightning causes them) it burns so hot that it ignites the peat is being environmentally friendly - apparently according to our BBC experts, Packham & Co., Guardian experts, Avery, Moonblot and Co.

Tongue firmly in cheek I know, but common sense has gone.

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3 hours ago, clangerman said:

I left it yesterday pointless thread now bound to be a vote which we wouldn’t win if rigged for us thanks to the excuses we would be flogging a dead dog (pun intended) we refuse to end needless cruelty so millions of dog lovers are going to end it and us at the same time why even discuss nobody listens it’s like we want to learn the hard way 

But you didn’t leave it yesterday did you, neither of you, because here you are again, today, pursuing what exactly? 
You and 12gauge82 are extremely critical of those on here who don’t support a ban, of something in which you yourself have admitted to playing an active part, and you both claim to have knowledge of illegal activity, yet neither of you has done, or intends to, do anything about it! 
I hardly think either is in a position to criticise others. 
 

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56 minutes ago, Scully said:

But you didn’t leave it yesterday did you, neither of you, because here you are again, today, pursuing what exactly? 
You and 12gauge82 are extremely critical of those on here who don’t support a ban, of something in which you yourself have admitted to playing an active part, and you both claim to have knowledge of illegal activity, yet neither of you has done, or intends to, do anything about it! 
I hardly think either is in a position to criticise others. 
 

The only people I've criticised are the hunts I've witnessed or known to do wrong and when I've expressed a personal opinion, if people can't handle me having a different view to them, maybe they should come off the Internet, as you'll always find a different view. I really don't understand all the anger (not referring to you), that's how antis behave. 

I've only come back because people keep directly talking to me. I'm more than happy to leave it. 

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1 hour ago, Scully said:

But you didn’t leave it yesterday did you, neither of you, because here you are again, today, pursuing what exactly? 
You and 12gauge82 are extremely critical of those on here who don’t support a ban, of something in which you yourself have admitted to playing an active part, and you both claim to have knowledge of illegal activity, yet neither of you has done, or intends to, do anything about it! 
I hardly think either is in a position to criticise others. 
 

let me clear any confusion I do not tell lies it takes to much effort and I don’t care about comeback for myself man or myth nobody tells me what to do that is for the wrath from above who are more than capable of setting me straight if need be so until you or anyone else reach their position keep the snide remarks the digs and sarcasm to your self waffle or foolish if anyone does not like a comment of mine say something but don’t be abusive or try to get a bite picking on others only reflects on your self not your victim thank you to scully and all for listening 

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2 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

The only people I've criticised are the hunts I've witnessed or known to do wrong and when I've expressed a personal opinion, if people can't handle me having a different view to them, maybe they should come off the Internet, as you'll always find a different view. I really don't understand all the anger (not referring to you), that's how antis behave. 

I've only come back because people keep directly talking to me. I'm more than happy to leave it. 

Ok, so you've accused others of turning a blind eye to illegal activities, and despite going off on a rant about it are guilty of the same by your own admission!  Like the antis, you've tried to make a case about hunts carrying out illegal activities based on a post regarding an act which isn't illegal. Distasteful possibly, but not illegal. The antis regard the killing of birds etc for sport or recreation distasteful too, although again, it isn't illegal.

Just what is it exactly, you expect us to do? 

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1 hour ago, clangerman said:

let me clear any confusion I do not tell lies it takes to much effort and I don’t care about comeback for myself man or myth nobody tells me what to do that is for the wrath from above who are more than capable of setting me straight if need be so until you or anyone else reach their position keep the snide remarks the digs and sarcasm to your self waffle or foolish if anyone does not like a comment of mine say something but don’t be abusive or try to get a bite picking on others only reflects on your self not your victim thank you to scully and all for listening 

I can understand the bit about not wanting to become involved for the sake of others, but you have banged on about the cruelty involved in hunting, and agreed that it needs resigning to the history books, yet have played an active part in it!

I think the only one confused around here is you. There is nothing snide, sarcastic or abusive about pointing out ones hypocrisy based on posts they themselves have written.  

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31 minutes ago, Scully said:

I can understand the bit about not wanting to become involved for the sake of others, but you have banged on about the cruelty involved in hunting, and agreed that it needs resigning to the history books, yet have played an active part in it!

I think the only one confused around here is you. There is nothing snide, sarcastic or abusive about pointing out ones hypocrisy based on posts they themselves have written.  

would that be like claiming to be a sportsman while at the same time allowing a lad to fire at birds all day when you can see he can’t hit a barn door with a brick or saying nothing when a woman fired eighty shots at live birds didn’t hit a feather and let her carry on when a sportsman would stop her is that hypocrisy? don’t ask me anything else scully ok 

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17 minutes ago, clangerman said:

would that be like claiming to be a sportsman while at the same time allowing a lad to fire at birds all day when you can see he can’t hit a barn door with a brick or saying nothing when a woman fired eighty shots at live birds didn’t hit a feather and let her carry on when a sportsman would stop her is that hypocrisy? don’t ask me anything else scully ok 

Really?  
When have I ever claimed to be a sportsman? 
If anyone, be it a young lad on beaters day who has earned the right to be there, or a  woman on a driven day, who has paid to be there, wants to blast away at pheasants, what gives me ( or you for that matter ) the right to say ‘no’?It’s not illegal and certainly no different to what any other gun is doing. 
I wasn’t loading for her and couldn’t care less if she’d fired 80 or 800. She had paid her money and had every right to be there. I certainly wasn’t criticising either her or the young lad, unlike you and your criticism of hunting and then admitting you took part! 

If you want to debate novices on driven days, then you can always start a thread on the topic?  I’ll look forward to it. 
 

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22 hours ago, scotslad said:

 

I know the gun pack i shot for for quite a few years as they run small numbers of hounds u got to know the individual hounds and the regulars would help as assitant whipers in, and esp in poor scenting conditions it was the older dogs who produced the goods and held on tricky scent when the younger 1's wouldn't.

Again no idea there actual age but many were running as long as i can remember, old colonal must of been a fair old age well past 10 unless it was just a ghost as hounds don't live that long?

 

Aye but  signing petions like this u are trying to take away others choices/freedoms.

 

Do u believe foxes should be controlled at all?

Even as i believe the law stands down south ( and not massively clued up as shoot north of the wall, but 2 dogs i believe) shooting a fox on a rough day even on ur own is illegal if u have more than 2 dogs with u.

How are u going to control foxes in more remote areas with large areas of whins ( gorse), blackthorn or massive forestry blocks if u cant use a dog to flush them?

 

Even if everything u say is 100% true any more legislation can have a far reaching effect on other aspects of shootng or predator control.

Its fairly strict as it is using a dog at all may become illegal, wot if u would a fox on the lamp/NV/thermal would u be alowed to follow it up with ur dog? many keepers often lamp with a GWP purely for that reason.

 

I very very rarely lift a gun to a woodcock now, thats my choice and suits my morals but i would never dream of forcing that on others or signing a petion to ban it.

 

Make absolutlely no mistake no matter how lowly or working class u think ur chosen sport is the antis want to ban it.

Esp since WJ came about they are going down a far more clever route targeting the fringes and the laws ( like GL's)

U may think they'll never ban pigeon shooting or ferreting for an example, but they have already tried very hard with pigeon shooting and the GL.

For me its an absolute no brainer that pigeons ned to be controlled same with rabbits or foxes for the massive damage they cause to agriculture but the way modern society is turning sand growing more urban do u really think they care about a farmers losses??

U think they'll never ban shooting rabbits? Hell they've tried to force a ban on shooting mountian/blue hares throu in scotland. To those that dont know they absolutely thrive on well managed grouse moors because of the cracking habitat and are the nearest thing to a rabbit u'll get on the high ground.

 

Even shooting foxes, badger probably do far more harm to wildlife now than foxes do and are protected, hell foxes only eat meat anyway so once they ban us from eating meat be no need for foxing.

 

Even the various trophy hunting legislation being talked about at moment, a lot will depend on how it goes but very possible that keeping an antler of any deer could be classed as a trophy and so illegal.

When legislation is brought in it is never a good thing and with very urban governements small changes can have far larger un meant consequences.

 

Same with WWT and RSPB spending members money doing research about lead contamination in game meats, has no bearing on there work just an alternative way to curb shooting, and working very well.

When the lead ban comes into affect it will have massive implications on airguns and rimfire rifles paticularlly

as well as target shooting all just collateral damage.

 

When u want a fieldsport banned be very careful wot u wish for, as it will not stop thee antis and only drive them on to target more fieldsports/freedoms as justifies there strange ideals

 

 

Very sad but true, and even now i'd say living in rural scotland freedoms i knew as a kid are massively frowned on now. U just couldn't do half the stuff i done as a kid , really not that long ago

Very sad and sadly speeding up rapidly esp since the internet became a thing and when u have some of the attitudes highlighted here amongst fellow shooters we really are screwed.

Bad enough antis peddling lies and half truths as gospel without doing it to ourselves.

U often see the same when u get other shooters on about grouse shooting too

Well said, every little change has further implications. 

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2 hours ago, Scully said:

Ok, so you've accused others of turning a blind eye to illegal activities, and despite going off on a rant about it are guilty of the same by your own admission!  Like the antis, you've tried to make a case about hunts carrying out illegal activities based on a post regarding an act which isn't illegal. Distasteful possibly, but not illegal. The antis regard the killing of birds etc for sport or recreation distasteful too, although again, it isn't illegal.

Just what is it exactly, you expect us to do? 

I expect you or anyone else to do nothing, we're just having a discussion 🤔

Where have I accused anyone turning a blind eye? I've said most people who have experienced hunts have probably herd or seen bad practices. 

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4 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

 

Where have I accused anyone turning a blind eye? 

Have a look back through your posts in this thread. 
I genuinely do understand why you protest the shooting of dogs, but it’s extremely humane. I just don’t understand what you hope to achieve by having all hound pack activity banned, just as you can’t understand it won’t make a jot of difference as to how we ( shooters ) are perceived. But we’re going round and round in circles here, and I’m losing the will. 
 

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I think it'd be best if any further specific questions or comments to me on this subject come via pm as it's starting to hijack the thread. As far as I'm concerned I'm having a reasoned debate on my views towards hunts in general and the treatment of hounds by many of them, I've said my piece and think it's best to leave it there, I've intended to offend no one and am surprised at the anger it appears to have triggered in some on here. 

2 minutes ago, Scully said:

Have a look back through your posts in this thread. 
I genuinely do understand why you protest the shooting of dogs, but it’s extremely humane. I just don’t understand what you hope to achieve by having all hound pack activity banned, just as you can’t understand it won’t make a jot of difference as to how we ( shooters ) are perceived. But we’re going round and round in circles here, and I’m losing the will. 
 

Yep no worries mate, you've been on here years and I know your a very reasonable person. The post above is not aimed at you, I was writing it as you posted. 

Probably best I leave this so others can contribute, if you want anything else I'm on pm. 

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11 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

 As far as I'm concerned I'm having a reasoned debate on my views towards hunts in general and the treatment of hounds by many of them, I've said my piece and think it's best to leave it there, I've intended to offend no one and am surprised at the anger it appears to have triggered in some on here. 

 

Just a little side note on the text I've highlighted.

I've regularly ridden to hounds for over 60 years (with a variety of packs I may add) and never once and I mean never, witnessed of even heard whispers of such treatment. On the contrary, hunting is all about hound work and as such, the hounds welfare is paramount. 

I would dearly love to know what sort of inappropriate treatment you speak of being meted out by and I quote you "many" packs. Your above statement beggars belief.

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2 hours ago, CharlieT said:

Just a little side note on the text I've highlighted.

I've regularly ridden to hounds for over 60 years (with a variety of packs I may add) and never once and I mean never, witnessed of even heard whispers of such treatment. On the contrary, hunting is all about hound work and as such, the hounds welfare is paramount. 

I would dearly love to know what sort of inappropriate treatment you speak of being meted out by and I quote you "many" packs. Your above statement beggars belief.

I've already posted about it. I've know of healthy dogs shot at 5 and 6, read walked ups post, I've also heard of the fastest and slowest dogs shot.

I know it was in the past but he even mentioned hanging them.

I know it's not all hunts, but do you think that an acceptable treatment of dogs? 

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Just for clarity I didn’t mention hanging, I believe that was Clangerman. I do not hunt but fully support hunting and would hunt if I had the means to. My knowledge of hunting is second hand from my wife’s grand father, the late Master of the Royal Rock pack. Terrance shot dogs that were not fit for purpose. Same as the old boy keepers I know. And the same result as being destroyed by lethal injection at the vets or shot by the knackerman. I have no objection to that as these hounds are not pets, they are working dogs akin to livestock or horses. 

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37 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

Just for clarity I didn’t mention hanging, I believe that was Clangerman. I do not hunt but fully support hunting and would hunt if I had the means to. My knowledge of hunting is second hand from my wife’s grand father, the late Master of the Royal Rock pack. Terrance shot dogs that were not fit for purpose. Same as the old boy keepers I know. And the same result as being destroyed by lethal injection at the vets or shot by the knackerman. I have no objection to that as these hounds are not pets, they are working dogs akin to livestock or horses. 

Apologies for the misquote with hanging, but you have also herd of shooting the fastest and slowest dogs. I find that abhorrent. 

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1 hour ago, WalkedUp said:

Slow race horses or greyhounds get shot. How is it any different? 

Right this minute, the only difference is they didn't get filmed on private land carrying out a legal practice.

As has been said numerous times, we don't need antis when we have ourselves... We will be the group who out the last nail in the coffin, due to not being as one. 

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So to sum up u seen a video of a hunt doing something perfectly legally behind closed doors which was illegally filmed.

 

Must admit i'm still very surprised any huntsman would shoot a perfectly healthy hound at 5 or 6 most working dogs are just coming in to there prime at that age, just makes no sense unless some other issues ( health, stock chasing, fighting with other hounds)

Ive seen hounds work well past 10 and u wouldn't have even known they were that old

 

And the made u decide to sign a petition to strengthen hunting laws???

How exactly are they likely to do that?

As it stands u can only hunt a fox with 1 couple of hounds, reduce that to 1 hound/dog?

If thats the case that will have massive implications to anyone shooting foxes on rough days or end of season vermin drives.

 

U've claimed numerous times that all hunts break the law all the time, so surely if they're already breaking the law there is very little point in changing it, surely wot's needed is the law thats already there being enforced.

So why not sign a petition for that?

But u'd think with all this secret filming and drones nowadays and all the hunt 'monitors' all this illegal acts would be filmed. Not like u can control where an illegally hunted fox runs

All the clips u seem to get on hunt meet days tend to be very highly edited folk in balaclavas tresspassing on private ground and allegedly being abused by 'toffs'

 

I don't think they get the ironry, turning up masked tresspassing how threating that can be to a horse and how dangerous it is for the rider, just as well they're never shouting abuse and making loud noises too, as cleverly edited out of the videos.

Funny how these sabs want 1 law tightened which is in dispute about even being broken often, while openly and regularly breaking a host of other laws, strange world.

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12 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I've already posted about it. I've know of healthy dogs shot at 5 and 6, read walked ups post, I've also heard of the fastest and slowest dogs shot.

I know it was in the past but he even mentioned hanging them.

I know it's not all hunts, but do you think that an acceptable treatment of dogs? 

Ye Gods, you really are scraping the barrel in your quest to find and conjure up reasons to decry hunting. I've never read so much hearsay drivel in all my life.

When the dreaded time comes, I chose to have our hunt staff come out to me and put down my horses and dogs with a simple shot to the brain. I am convinced this is the most compassionate way end their life, at home without stress, in surrounding they know and feel at ease in. As I just said, I can't think of a kinder or more compassionate way to do it.

There's far too many people in this world basing their views on hearsay, unfounded assumptions or something they've read on the internet. Don't fall into that trap.

 

 

 

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