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Fox hounds and the Anti footage


Dougy
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Just now, captainhastings said:

That is cobblers it is all well and good sitting on your high horse but when you lose doing what you love which you will at some point and that is a certainty see how you feel 

That's the point, I don't want to and its fools who flout the law, or carry out abominable practices that will lead to it. 

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2 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

That's the point, I don't want to and its fools who flout the law, or carry out abominable practices that will lead to it. 

The only analogy I can present is that in the run up to the  hunting ban the hunters were faced with exactly the same situation as shooters hypothetically being told that they could carry on shooting, but no live quarry is to be shot.   Target shooting from now on guys!

That was the equivalent to what the hunters faced at the time of the ban. I think it was perfectly understandable that the tens of thousands of people who hunted, and most were / are very passionate about the sport, often with packs with continuous histories going back hundreds of years, were a bit miffed at that prospect and decided to push the boundaries of that legistlation as far as the could. Especially when they viewed the ban as being imposed on them a rural minority by a political party most had no support for and regarded as representing predominantly the urban majority. 

As the T Shirts once said,  **** the Ban

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8 hours ago, Agriv8 said:

I am all for keeping our heritage alive but fox hunting with dogs to me is a step too far it does not tick the humane box.
 

I get that to most on here and I am a member of this club that our dogs are companions and members of the family. But I know members of our syndicate that see them as a tool. They are not mistreated or unloved but they are a tool and when they no longer able to do that job they will be dispatched. I could not do it but if it’s humane I am not about to pass judgment. 
 

My point is we are getting upset about shooting dogs ( healthy or not ) but a fox is to be hunted down to exhaustion   Is ok.

my point is that most of understand is that are companions or prey deserve the right to be dispatched with minimal suffering Rat, Rabbit, Squirrel, goose, Fox, pheasant, partridge, grouse ! 
 

 

I agree with the points made in your post. Hunting with packs of dogs belongs in the past

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4 hours ago, scolopax said:

The only analogy I can present is that in the run up to the  hunting ban the hunters were faced with exactly the same situation as shooters hypothetically being told that they could carry on shooting, but no live quarry is to be shot.   Target shooting from now on guys!

That was the equivalent to what the hunters faced at the time of the ban. I think it was perfectly understandable that the tens of thousands of people who hunted, and most were / are very passionate about the sport, often with packs with continuous histories going back hundreds of years, were a bit miffed at that prospect and decided to push the boundaries of that legistlation as far as the could. Especially when they viewed the ban as being imposed on them a rural minority by a political party most had no support for and regarded as representing predominantly the urban majority. 

As the T Shirts once said,  **** the Ban

It's completely different and many hunts have always regularly had disregard for the law.

They've done nothing but damage their own and with it our reputation for years with law breaking and inhumane treatment of animals.

As for killing dogs in that manner, right or wrong, dogs are our nations pets and people up and down the country see them as an animal above all others, that goes back thousands of years and is a tradition in its own right, people these days see them as family, being honest so do I with my own, they'll win no favours from Joe public behaving like that. 

The hunts have bought the publics wrath on their own head and have cared little about unfairly damaging shooters reputations with it. They'll get no support from me. 

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10 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

I've known many a lad shoot a dog as a way of putting it down. 

It's blunt but effective. I didn't have the stomach for it myself when my old Lab needed to go, I took her to the vets and sat with her as they give her the injection. 

 

I wouldn't complain about anyone legally shooting a dog as a way of putting it down, regardless of age or condition. 

These dogs are not fluffy pets designed to sit on the sofa, they are working animals as basically regarded as livestock, the same as many other animals in the countryside. 

 

As long as the hunt made attempts to ensure they were dispatched quickly and as humanely as possible then I would not condemn them. 
If one was shot and the huntsman unhappy with the shot then the second shot is the right thing to do. 

 

 

👍 

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Oh dear oh dear.

Legally euthanising an animal that you own or legally ‘euthanising’ a deer/rabbit/squirrel/fox/pheasant/grouse/partridge/duck/goose and so on.

Thousands of us are terminating the lives of animals everyday and the PW mahoosive are condemning another branch of field sports, whilst believing their ‘sport’ is morally acceptable to others outside of the sport! 

Hunts are often seen as operating to their own laws, well hello, so do many a farmer or gamekeeper and others who handle livestock.
 

So. It’s not acceptable to shoot ones own dog, but sticking a captive bolt into cattle/pigs/sheep and the like for food consumption is!

Those that disagree with taking an animals life, will not stop with the banning of a ‘legal’ activity until all forms of the sports we follow and activities at an abattoir are ceased.

No direct offence intended, but by signing this this petition your signing away your own shooting rights in the future. Maybe you don’t hunt? But sure as the sun rises in the east, that all forms of shooting disciplines will succumb to peer pressure and cease to exist.
 

Editors note: I’m having my breakfast, trying to study and also keep the kids entertained and I will admit not to reading every post or even proof reading my own drivel 🙂

 

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2 hours ago, yates said:

I agree with the points made in your post. Hunting with packs of dogs belongs in the past

So simply don't do it but why impose your will on others with in reason of course. Loads of people disagree with killing any thing at all and they heading out to impose there will on you and they will. Might not be in your life time but I bet a pound to a penny your grandkids won't be sat on a marsh dropping a goose on a morning flight. Or out shooting pigeons on the stubble. Or if they are it won't be with out some dam ridiculous licencing that makes it dam near impossible for the majority of people

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11 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

Oh dear oh dear.

Legally euthanising an animal that you own or legally ‘euthanising’ a deer/rabbit/squirrel/fox/pheasant/grouse/partridge/duck/goose and so on.

Thousands of us are terminating the lives of animals everyday and the PW mahoosive are condemning another branch of field sports, whilst believing their ‘sport’ is morally acceptable to others outside of the sport! 

Hunts are often seen as operating to their own laws, well hello, so do many a farmer or gamekeeper and others who handle livestock.
 

So. It’s not acceptable to shoot ones own dog, but sticking a captive bolt into cattle/pigs/sheep and the like for food consumption is!

Those that disagree with taking an animals life, will not stop with the banning of a ‘legal’ activity until all forms of the sports we follow and activities at an abattoir are ceased.

No direct offence intended, but by signing this this petition your signing away your own shooting rights in the future. Maybe you don’t hunt? But sure as the sun rises in the east, that all forms of shooting disciplines will succumb to peer pressure and cease to exist.
 

Editors note: I’m having my breakfast, trying to study and also keep the kids entertained and I will admit not to reading every post or even proof reading my own drivel 🙂

 

I disagree. I know lots of people who don't shoot and most are not against hunting. I've spoken to many people while going out or coming back from shooting and I've had far more pro shooting conversations than negative. Yet something in the region of 90% of the public are dead against hunting foxes with hounds. Like I've said in earlier posts much of country folk are against what many hunts did, or continue to do. 

Hunts belong in the past and the longer we turn a blind eye to those who flout the law, like the killing of BOP, or hunts that continue to hunt foxes with hounds, the more likely the public will turn against shooters to. 

5 minutes ago, captainhastings said:

So simply don't do it but why impose your will on others with in reason of course. Loads of people disagree with killing any thing at all and they heading out to impose there will on you and they will. Might not be in your life time but I bet a pound to a penny your grandkids won't be sat on a marsh dropping a goose on a morning flight. Or out shooting pigeons on the stubble. Or if they are it won't be with out some dam ridiculous licencing that makes it dam near impossible for the majority of people

Hes not, the law already has. 

Just like I don't support hunting fox with hounds, I don't support people poaching, or killing BOP, or owning a firearm without a licence. They're all illegal. 

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Hounds at the end of what the hunt thinks is their useful life have always been "put down". It may nowadays be done by the gun but back before that they were hanged. Cartridges were too expensive to use for putting a dog down. That's where the term "a hang dog look" comes from. The method was to put the noose around the ends of the shafts on a two wheel cart and then turn the cart to raise shafts (and dog) into the air.

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19 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

Hounds at the end of what the hunt thinks is their useful life have always been "put down". It may nowadays be done by the gun but back before that they were hanged. Cartridges were too expensive to use for putting a dog down. That's where the term "a hang dog look" comes from. The method was to put the noose around the ends of the shafts on a two wheel cart and then turn the cart to raise shafts (and dog) into the air.

Excellent example of how times move on. Thank god that has ended. 

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Fields sports all ways involves some form of cruelty and you can dress it up how you like. Hounds can kill a fox in seconds fact. Shooting no matter how good you think you are can lead to clipped and wounded animals and that is a fact. I have no problem with either but I don't like seeing one branch of sport ripping into another because they think they are better than them 

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17 minutes ago, captainhastings said:

Fields sports all ways involves some form of cruelty and you can dress it up how you like. Hounds can kill a fox in seconds fact. Shooting no matter how good you think you are can lead to clipped and wounded animals and that is a fact. I have no problem with either but I don't like seeing one branch of sport ripping into another because they think they are better than them 

Justify what used to go on in Enfield spares post above then. 

Or could it be that times move on? Hunting with hounds belongs in the past and has been banned for years. 

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44 minutes ago, clangerman said:

this is about what the public rightly find cruel in field sports we use the most humane tool we have ripping a fox apart is about as inhumane as it gets hunting is a cruelty NOT a field sport now of shooting before these fools take us down with them 

Yet I haven’t heard a single comment against the use of terriers on rats and that it is Inhumane! 
 

Fox Hunting was banned, but of course there will be foxes caught up in the proceedings.
Not sure that they deliberately go out in the hope that the pack will corner one! Same as I don’t go out in my car hoping that I run over an animal- these things do happen and I can’t guarantee my car gave the most ‘humane’ dispatch.

Have you seen how quickly a pack dispatches a fox? It’s not exactly a drawn out process.  

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1 minute ago, Jaymo said:

Yet I haven’t heard a single comment against the use of terriers on rats and that it is Inhumane! 
 

Fox Hunting was banned, but of course there will be foxes caught up in the proceedings.
Not sure that they deliberately go out in the hope that the pack will corner one! Same as I don’t go out in my car hoping that I run over an animal- these things do happen and I can’t guarantee my car gave the most ‘humane’ dispatch.

Have you seen how quickly a pack dispatches a fox? It’s not exactly a drawn out process.  

Do you seriously believe that many (not all) hunts don't still go out with the intention to chase a fox? 

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1 hour ago, captainhastings said:

So simply don't do it but why impose your will on others with in reason of course. Loads of people disagree with killing any thing at all and they heading out to impose there will on you and they will. Might not be in your life time but I bet a pound to a penny your grandkids won't be sat on a marsh dropping a goose on a morning flight. Or out shooting pigeons on the stubble. Or if they are it won't be with out some dam ridiculous licencing that makes it dam near impossible for the majority of people

Sadly I totally agree with you. The countryside is shrinking and lots of people want to use the limited space. It stands to reason that the man/woman holding a gun will be viewed as threat to others and therefore we will be forced out

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But intentionally or not, are they operating within the confines of the law? 
 

Many of us don’t intentionally go out to break a law, but it happens. From parking to speeding to dropping a ciggie butt and many more. 
 

By banning one activity, certain portions of Society then look to the next item on those agenda to ban. Before long, even farting is banned. 
 

 

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35 minutes ago, Jaymo said:


But intentionally or not, are they operating within the confines of the law? 
 

Many of us don’t intentionally go out to break a law, but it happens. From parking to speeding to dropping a ciggie butt and many more. 
 

By banning one activity, certain portions of Society then look to the next item on those agenda to ban. Before long, even farting is banned. 
 

 

No I would suggest many aren't, they get away with it because the law as it stands allow them to break the law undetected. Which is why they keep getting caught with their pants down. That's why I agree with closing the loopholes that allow many hunts to illegally hunt foxes. 

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Every so called field sport entails cruelty to a degree, by the very nature of how animals are caught or despatched. 
We drag fish out of their natural habitat for entertainment, via a hook through the mouth, sometimes only to let them go again! This is deemed acceptable by the vast majority for some reason. Fish aren’t cute though, are they? 
Rats are caught and killed by any means possible, no one seems to mind this whether it’s humane or not. Perhaps if Foxes looked like rats then we wouldn’t be having this debate. 
I’ve never been a particular fan of fox hunting; there are quicker, cleaner and in my opinion more practical solutions to problem foxes. I think the problem started when those who rode to hounds couldn’t decide what they were doing it for, namely sport or pest control ( but they’re not the only ones having trouble with that ) and I genuinely don’t think they help themselves ( and there again neither do us shooters sometimes ) as they could be a little bit more discreet with how they do things. 
Those who trespass to film illegally will continue to do so, and while the despatching of hounds has nothing to do with the act of fox hunting, in so much as hounds will continue to be despatched even though fox hunting is banned, it is just one more indication of how those who are involved, conduct themselves. Animals of all species are despatched for one reason or another on a daily basis, but mostly out of the public eye. 
If you genuinely don’t care for hunting with hounds, then fair enough, but those of us who shoot live quarry for sport who think that distancing themselves from those associated with hunting with hounds will in some way endear them to antis or the general public, are deluded. 

 

 

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Regarding this comment I made ( Fields sports all ways involves some form of cruelty) I made above I will say all us decent hunters/shooters try and keep the suffering to a bare minimum. That is just part of being decent. But unfortunately there are mistakes but we do our best. Also and I am preaching to the converted the hunters in any form are also the best conservationists.
But anyway the hunting with hounds or hare coursing should never have been banned it was a chip off the block and they won't be happy until every thing is stopped.
Shooting hounds if done properly at the end of the day is better than a stressful visit to the vets. I wish when the time comes I could walk my own dog and shoot it while it stood there completely unaware in the outdoors doing what it loved all its life rather than on a vets table scared to death. But I don't have it in me  

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4 minutes ago, captainhastings said:

Regarding this comment I made ( Fields sports all ways involves some form of cruelty) I made above I will say all us decent hunters/shooters try and keep the suffering to a bare minimum. That is just part of being decent. But unfortunately there are mistakes but we do our best. Also and I am preaching to the converted the hunters in any form are also the best conservationists.
But anyway the hunting with hounds or hare coursing should never have been banned it was a chip off the block and they won't be happy until every thing is stopped.
Shooting hounds if done properly at the end of the day is better than a stressful visit to the vets. I wish when the time comes I could walk my own dog and shoot it while it stood there completely unaware in the outdoors doing what it loved all its life rather than on a vets table scared to death. But I don't have it in me  

This.

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2 hours ago, Jaymo said:

Have you seen how quickly a pack dispatches a fox? It’s not exactly a drawn out process.  

followed hunts and worked my own terriers so you don’t want me posting the reality of killing foxes in this day and age it’s unacceptable simple as that making excuses will see the fire will turn on us burn if you wish to 

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2 hours ago, Jaymo said:

Yet I haven’t heard a single comment against the use of terriers on rats and that it is Inhumane! 

 

6 hours ago, yates said:

I agree with the points made in your post. Hunting with packs of dogs belongs in the past

I was just going to say what about rats, a pack of terriers is probably the most effective way of killing rats,  and terriers and rats are probably similar in size to hounds and foxes, only the hounds are after one fox.

50 minutes ago, captainhastings said:

wish when the time comes I could walk my own dog and shoot it while it stood there completely unaware in the outdoors doing what it loved all its life rather than on a vets table scared to death. But I don't have it in me  

I realise it's not what the topic is about but my old dog was put down in my boot(estate car) this was arranged in advance,  I took my dog out for his last walk had fun with him then stopped on the way home, I felt this was much nicer for him than going into the vets which I'm sure no dog really likes.

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