Channel Migrants

[Rewulf]

4 hours ago, oowee said:

? 🙂 Why should they stop. Get safe find your friends and family and a place you can have a future. We would all mostly do the same

I'd like to 'get safe' out of this rapidly going downhill country, and go and live in Oz, NZ or Canada, but I can't just rock up and claim asylum there can I? 

4 hours ago, oowee said:

Where's the evidence for this?

Here's one to get you going, plenty more where he came from, at least 3 different countries before he got here and killed someone 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/23/afghan-asylum-seeker-murdered-aspiring-royal-marine/

[Rewulf]

9 minutes ago, old'un said:

The 1951 Refugee Convention does not require a person to claim asylum in the first safe country they reach, there is no legal requirement for a refugee to claim asylum in any particular country, there is however a requirement for the first safe country in which they arrive to hear their asylum claim but, if this does not happen for any reason, the refugee is then free to make their asylum claim elsewhere.

And this is the problem in France and other EU country's.

The main problem for this part of international law, is that it was designed for genuine people fleeing war. 

They were supposed to register themselves as refugees in the first safe country they got to, then if their asylum claim was rejected, they had to be removed back to the registered country. 

The law is wholly unfit for the purposes of today's economic 3rd World migrants, most of whom are more interested in what benefits they can claim, which is most of the time , their sole reason for migrating. 

If globalist weren't in charge of the UN, this law is ripe for a re write, but that isn't going to happen, as it suits their agenda. 

[12gauge82]

29 minutes ago, old'un said:

The 1951 Refugee Convention does not require a person to claim asylum in the first safe country they reach, there is no legal requirement for a refugee to claim asylum in any particular country, there is however a requirement for the first safe country in which they arrive to hear their asylum claim but, if this does not happen for any reason, the refugee is then free to make their asylum claim elsewhere.

And this is the problem in France and other EU country's.

Thank you for that 👍

Can't wait to hear Henrys answer 🙈

14 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

The main problem for this part of international law, is that it was designed for genuine people fleeing war. 

They were supposed to register themselves as refugees in the first safe country they got to, then if their asylum claim was rejected, they had to be removed back to the registered country. 

The law is wholly unfit for the purposes of today's economic 3rd World migrants, most of whom are more interested in what benefits they can claim, which is most of the time , their sole reason for migrating. 

If globalist weren't in charge of the UN, this law is ripe for a re write, but that isn't going to happen, as it suits their agenda. 

Absolutely, like I said, the migrant crisis is not about refugees and never has been. 

[Vince Green]

1 hour ago, henry d said:

No they don't. 

You are not right there. What you saying often said but it's not true

 Technically, when a person claims asylum they are claiming asylum from the country they arrived from ( ie France) not some distant land they left in the dim past

[12gauge82]

6 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

You are not right there. 

Don't worry, Henry won't let that get in the way of disagreeing with you 😂

[henry d]

11 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

You are not right there. What you saying often said but it's not true

 Technically, when a person claims asylum they are claiming asylum from the country they arrived from ( ie France) not some distant land they left in the dim past

You better argue your point with this professor of law then...

https://fullfact.org/immigration/refugees-first-safe-country/

[Rewulf]

14 minutes ago, henry d said:

You better argue your point with this professor of law then.

From your quoted link. 

That said, there is some UK domestic law which allows the government to refuse to consider an asylum application if it is judged that the person could have claimed asylum elsewhere. Refugees who arrive in the UK after passing through another EU country can, under certain circumstances, also be returned to the first EU country they entered, under an EU law known as the Dublin Regulation

[Penelope]

On 10/02/2023 at 19:12, Yellow Bear said:

You will have a hard time stopping the " Left" importing its voters to gain power since it abandoned its core voters. 

😁

On 11/02/2023 at 11:48, Vince Green said:

How many pizzas do we need delivered? 

It's what's being delivered with the pizzas that's the real money maker.

[12gauge82]

52 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

From your quoted link. 

That said, there is some UK domestic law which allows the government to refuse to consider an asylum application if it is judged that the person could have claimed asylum elsewhere. Refugees who arrive in the UK after passing through another EU country can, under certain circumstances, also be returned to the first EU country they entered, under an EU law known as the Dublin Regulation

Oh dear, that won't fit someone's argument, don't expect him to reply, he ignores you when he's stumped. 

[Rewulf]

45 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Oh dear, that won't fit someone's argument, don't expect him to reply, he ignores you when he's stumped. 

He's had me blocked for some time. 

I've learned to live with the rejection 😂

[oowee]

3 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Yes they do

Not required look at text above. 

 

3 hours ago, old'un said:

And that's one of the problems in this and other countries, immigrants will try to head for towns and cities with a high percentage of their own kind, the area becomes home from home with little need to integrate.

We could deal with that if we worked towards integration but the country is in such a mess it cannot afford even basic schooling.

[Scully]

Is there really integration? There are many places in the UK where immigrants simply don’t mix with others outside their ethnicity of religion. There are Jewish schools for example, so I’m assuming there will be other minority only establishments. 
I know some integrate, but how prevalent is it? 

[Rewulf]

50 minutes ago, oowee said:

We could deal with that if we worked towards integration

You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make it drink...

A lot of these immigrants dont want to integrate, their culture and religion are incompatible with Britains.
They are busy creating ghettos from council housing, and ferrying relatives in to bolster their numbers, they dont bother with census requests, so we dont even have an idea of how many there are.

I work a couple of miles away from an area called Sneinton, it has a tower block there inhabited solely by Somalis, they have created their own little Mogadishu there.
Sneinton is a very multicultural area anyway , has been for years, its also crime ridden.
The fact is there are Easter Europeans, a large Pakistani population, and the Somalis now, I heard tell there were still a few English people there.
None of these groups integrate, they all have their own areas, shops and meeting places, I would go so far to say they barely tolerate each other, there is often stabbings and beatings across the cultural divide, the occasional murder, usually over drugs.

What Im getting at , and Ive said this many times, it doesnt matter what you do, you cannot force cultures together, it doesnt work, and never has without one dominating the other, a tyrant presiding over both, or one destroying the other.
History shows us this to be true.
We can go abroad and drink beer with the Germans and wine with the French , because our cultures arent that much different, we share common traits and ideals, but it certainly didnt stop us from invading and murdering each other in the not so distant past did it?
This just wont work with African and middle eastern tribal culture

50 minutes ago, oowee said:

but the country is in such a mess it cannot afford even basic schooling.

Thats just not true is it , we CAN afford very good schooling ? And for the most part , we do.

We can also  afford HS2 and to throw money around in covid and energy 'crisis' like confetti.
We can afford to house refugees by the million, while leaving homeless people freezing to death in shop doorways.
We can afford to give billions in 'aid' to despots, and countries with space programs.
We can afford to house , feed and clothe millions of  people who cant be bothered to work.

I just dont think we should do.
 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Rewulf

[Penelope]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make it drink...

A lot of these immigrants dont want to integrate, their culture and religion are incompatible with Britains.
They are busy creating ghettos from council housing, and ferrying relatives in to bolster their numbers, they dont bother with census requests, so we dont even have an idea of how many there are.

I work a couple of miles away from an area called Sneinton, it has a tower block there inhabited solely by Somalis, they have created their own little Mogadishu there.
Sneinton is a very multicultural area anyway , has been for years, its also crime ridden.
The fact is there are Easter Europeans, a large Pakistani population, and the Somalis now, I heard tell there were still a few English people there.
None of these groups integrate, they all have their own areas, shops and meeting places, I would go so far to say they barely tolerate each other, there is often stabbings and beatings across the cultural divide, the occasional murder, usually over drugs.

What Im getting at , and Ive said this many times, it doesnt matter what you do, you cannot force cultures together, it doesnt work, and never has without one dominating the other, a tyrant presiding over both, or one destroying the other.
History shows us this to be true.
We can go abroad and drink beer with the Germans and wine with the French , because our cultures arent that much different, we share common traits and ideals, but it certainly didnt stop us from invading and murdering each other in the not so distant past did it?
This just wont work with African and middle eastern tribal culture

Thats just not true is it , we CAN afford very good schooling ? And for the most part , we do.

We can also  afford HS2 and to throw money around in covid and energy 'crisis' like confetti.
We can afford to house refugees by the million, while leaving homeless people freezing to death in shop doorways.
We can afford to give billions in 'aid' to despots, and countries with space programs.
We can afford to house , feed and clothe millions of  people who cant be bothered to work.

I just dont think we should do.
 

👏

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make it drink...

A lot of these immigrants dont want to integrate, their culture and religion are incompatible with Britains.
They are busy creating ghettos from council housing, and ferrying relatives in to bolster their numbers, they dont bother with census requests, so we dont even have an idea of how many there are.

I work a couple of miles away from an area called Sneinton, it has a tower block there inhabited solely by Somalis, they have created their own little Mogadishu there.
Sneinton is a very multicultural area anyway , has been for years, its also crime ridden.
The fact is there are Easter Europeans, a large Pakistani population, and the Somalis now, I heard tell there were still a few English people there.
None of these groups integrate, they all have their own areas, shops and meeting places, I would go so far to say they barely tolerate each other, there is often stabbings and beatings across the cultural divide, the occasional murder, usually over drugs.

What Im getting at , and Ive said this many times, it doesnt matter what you do, you cannot force cultures together, it doesnt work, and never has without one dominating the other, a tyrant presiding over both, or one destroying the other.
History shows us this to be true.
We can go abroad and drink beer with the Germans and wine with the French , because our cultures arent that much different, we share common traits and ideals, but it certainly didnt stop us from invading and murdering each other in the not so distant past did it?
This just wont work with African and middle eastern tribal culture

Thats just not true is it , we CAN afford very good schooling ? And for the most part , we do.

We can also  afford HS2 and to throw money around in covid and energy 'crisis' like confetti.
We can afford to house refugees by the million, while leaving homeless people freezing to death in shop doorways.
We can afford to give billions in 'aid' to despots, and countries with space programs.
We can afford to house , feed and clothe millions of  people who cant be bothered to work.

I just dont think we should do.
 

These areas that you refer to are often simply abandoned areas of high poverty. We can and should work on capacity building and area improvement it's been done many times. Crime is often a symptom of low education and poverty. A trap from which many find it almost impossible to escape from. This circle of despair concentrated in small areas, then becomes self reinforcing. 

I wish wish it were true that we could afford good schooling. We can't even pay our teachers a decent salary. Education should be at the very heart of all that we do as a country. We need to lead the way to survive. We are continually cutting the public sector particularly education as its an easy target. Public schooling should be comparable to or better than the very best that the private sector provides. If we don't have knowledge we have nothing. 

We throw money around to win favour and votes with little strategy or plan for anything. 

[udderlyoffroad]

12 minutes ago, oowee said:

These areas that you refer to are often simply abandoned areas of high poverty. We can and should work on capacity building and area improvement it's been done many times. Crime is often a symptom of low education and poverty. A trap from which many find it almost impossible to escape from. This circle of despair concentrated in small areas, then becomes self reinforcing. 

Nonsense of the highest order.

It's a symptom of low expectations.

13 minutes ago, oowee said:

Crime is often a symptom of low education and poverty.

That is is the bigotry of low expectations right there

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

These areas that you refer to are often simply abandoned areas of high poverty. We can and should work on capacity building and area improvement it's been done many times. Crime is often a symptom of low education and poverty. A trap from which many find it almost impossible to escape from. This circle of despair concentrated in small areas, then becomes self reinforcing. 

Turn that around, and examine it.
What if low/no education IS the CAUSE of crime and poverty, if due to culture (and no, I dont mean race wise either) an education is considered unnecessary (Im gonna be a drug dealer innit !) Or perhaps parents and peers dont drive their childrens potential to get a good education, because THEY didnt get one ?

Blaming lack of education on the education system, due to lack of money or staff is a typical labour cop out.
'Ooh look ! something isnt working , lets throw loads of money at it, or blame the tories for it .'

The education available is excellent, and is mainly free for all.
We produce top grade scientists and academics, how can you say we cant afford it ?

10 minutes ago, oowee said:

I wish wish it were true that we could afford good schooling. We can't even pay our teachers a decent salary.

Thats rubbish, teachers pay rates are , like nurses, very good.
My partners daughter is a primary school teacher, she left her degree at 21 to become a TA , been a full time teacher for 5 years, she just got a pay rise to £46,000 pa, shes 28.
And lets get this straight, the teachers are for the most part , not striking over pay , they are striking over funding for schools, because the government used its budget to keep the unions happy with pay rises instead.

2 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Nonsense of the highest order.

It's a symptom of low expectations.

That is is the bigotry of low expectations right there

Beat me to it 

[Vince Green]

2 hours ago, Scully said:

Is there really integration? There are many places in the UK where immigrants simply don’t mix with others outside their ethnicity of religion. There are Jewish schools for example, so I’m assuming there will be other minority only establishments. 
I know some integrate, but how prevalent is it? 

Look at it the other way round, if we went to live in an Arab country to what extent would we want to integrate? Not very much I suspect.

You don't even have to go that far, my wife's best friend lived in Spain for over twenty years. She doesn't speak a word of Spanish . She lived entirely within the British Ex Pat community.

[12gauge82]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

Not required look at text above. 

 

 

Semantics! 

Look at below text

 

"there is however a requirement for the first safe country in which they arrive to hear their asylum claim but, if this does not happen for any reason, the refugee is then free to make their asylum claim elsewhere." 

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make it drink...

A lot of these immigrants dont want to integrate, their culture and religion are incompatible with Britains.
They are busy creating ghettos from council housing, and ferrying relatives in to bolster their numbers, they dont bother with census requests, so we dont even have an idea of how many there are.

I work a couple of miles away from an area called Sneinton, it has a tower block there inhabited solely by Somalis, they have created their own little Mogadishu there.
Sneinton is a very multicultural area anyway , has been for years, its also crime ridden.
The fact is there are Easter Europeans, a large Pakistani population, and the Somalis now, I heard tell there were still a few English people there.
None of these groups integrate, they all have their own areas, shops and meeting places, I would go so far to say they barely tolerate each other, there is often stabbings and beatings across the cultural divide, the occasional murder, usually over drugs.

What Im getting at , and Ive said this many times, it doesnt matter what you do, you cannot force cultures together, it doesnt work, and never has without one dominating the other, a tyrant presiding over both, or one destroying the other.
History shows us this to be true.
We can go abroad and drink beer with the Germans and wine with the French , because our cultures arent that much different, we share common traits and ideals, but it certainly didnt stop us from invading and murdering each other in the not so distant past did it?
This just wont work with African and middle eastern tribal culture

Thats just not true is it , we CAN afford very good schooling ? And for the most part , we do.

We can also  afford HS2 and to throw money around in covid and energy 'crisis' like confetti.
We can afford to house refugees by the million, while leaving homeless people freezing to death in shop doorways.
We can afford to give billions in 'aid' to despots, and countries with space programs.
We can afford to house , feed and clothe millions of  people who cant be bothered to work.

I just dont think we should do.
 

What a well written explanation 👌

[henry d]

57 minutes ago, oowee said:

Crime is often a symptom of low education and poverty

 

45 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Nonsense of the highest order.

You said it, just look at how well educated the upper echelons of the tory government are!

[Vince Green]

5 hours ago, old'un said:

The 1951 Refugee Convention does not require a person to claim asylum in the first safe country they reach, there is no legal requirement for a refugee to claim asylum in any particular country, there is however a requirement for the first safe country in which they arrive to hear their asylum claim but, if this does not happen for any reason, the refugee is then free to make their asylum claim elsewhere.

And this is the problem in France and other EU country's.

Which is why France will not document the migrants in any way. They are never given any form of paperwork  that could be used as proof that they were ever in France. Simple but effective 

That way they can't be sent back. Probably other countries do the same thing .

[old'un]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

These areas that you refer to are often simply abandoned areas of high poverty. We can and should work on capacity building and area improvement it's been done many times. Crime is often a symptom of low education and poverty. A trap from which many find it almost impossible to escape from. This circle of despair concentrated in small areas, then becomes self reinforcing. 

I wish wish it were true that we could afford good schooling. We can't even pay our teachers a decent salary. Education should be at the very heart of all that we do as a country. We need to lead the way to survive. We are continually cutting the public sector particularly education as its an easy target. Public schooling should be comparable to or better than the very best that the private sector provides. If we don't have knowledge we have nothing. 

We throw money around to win favour and votes with little strategy or plan for anything. 

You obviously know nothing about a lot of nice areas in Birmingham that were taken over by immigrants and they were not abandoned areas of high poverty, have you ever been to Handsworth?

 

44 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Look at it the other way round, if we went to live in an Arab country to what extent would we want to integrate? Not very much I suspect.

You don't even have to go that far, my wife's best friend lived in Spain for over twenty years. She doesn't speak a word of Spanish . She lived entirely within the British Ex Pat community.

Yes, but does she and the Ex Pat community make the local Spanish people feel unsafe in that area? I have watched a few programs on the Ex pat community in Spain and most seem to get on fine with the locals, ok, I dont think the local Spanish are that keen on a full English for breakfast.

[Gordon R]

Why do people trot out the law on "refugees", as if it means something. The vast majority of the Channel crossers are not refugees, but economic migrants.

[udderlyoffroad]

1 hour ago, henry d said:

You said it, just look at how well educated the upper echelons of the tory government are!

At my school, education could go hang if you could hit a six, sing the school song in a really loud voice, and take a hot crumpet from behind without blubbing.

[oowee]

5 hours ago, old'un said:

You obviously know nothing about a lot of nice areas in Birmingham that were taken over by immigrants and they were not abandoned areas of high poverty, have you ever been to Handsworth?

 

 

I worked in Handsworth, Castle Vale (Cincinati Milacron) , Small Heath (Green Lane Masjid) and Heartlands (LDV Vans) on regeneration and investment programmes.