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ditchman
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I hate to say it but if we only had a single party there'd never be any way of removing those the general population disagree with. We need a decent second and third too to make them keep trying to win votes.

But I agree it seems Labour aren't going to rock this specific boat.

 

Edited by Dave-G
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I don't know why people have in their heads there's only two parties to vote for, it's what keeps anything from ever changing. 

When was the last time Labour or Conservatives did anything that really benefited the working masses? Brexit only just squeezed through in a massively watered down form and that had the strongest mandate ever received via the largest vote in this countrys history. 

This migrant crisis is another one, no sensible person who works for a living (other than Henry on here) believes migrants arriving in their droves on our shores is a good idea and the overwhelming majority of uk citizens want to stop it immediately, but they won't because they don't care what we think, they'll only care if they don't get voted in and while people will only vote Labour or con, the tory are the lesser of two evils. 

 

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6 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

while people will only vote Labour or con, the tory are the lesser of two evils.

The reason is very simple; there is no credible other party. 

  • Lib Dems - have a few seats - but highly unlikely to ever get a majority, and not at all 'sound' on immigration and other 'popular' issues
  • Greens - one MP and unsound on most popular issues, being very left of centre
  • UKIP/Brexit (legacy party) - popular, but only really successful in changing things by offering support and won one seat (though they did hold one(?)) through defection.  Made achievements, but not through winning seats.
  • Far left parties - never a credible alternative (thank goodness)
  • Far right parties (BNP, EDL etc) - - never a credible alternative (thank goodness)
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57 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I don't know why people have in their heads there's only two parties to vote for, it's what keeps anything from ever changing. 

When was the last time Labour or Conservatives did anything that really benefited the working masses? Brexit only just squeezed through in a massively watered down form and that had the strongest mandate ever received via the largest vote in this countrys history. 

This migrant crisis is another one, no sensible person who works for a living (other than Henry on here) believes migrants arriving in their droves on our shores is a good idea and the overwhelming majority of uk citizens want to stop it immediately, but they won't because they don't care what we think, they'll only care if they don't get voted in and while people will only vote Labour or con, the tory are the lesser of two evils. 

 

 I could not bring myself to vote for a donkey, or corbyn. If we all vote for something else then things can change but you have to believe in change. Unfortunately peop's vote for the colour of their **** because they cannot see beyond the immediate horizon. 

It's all a mess and will remain so until we get devoloution for Scotland and then whats left will have to rethink the constituition. 

ps. not sure but I think the vote to join the EU was a larger majority than Brexit. 

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25 minutes ago, oowee said:

 I could not bring myself to vote for a donkey, or corbyn. If we all vote for something else then things can change but you have to believe in change. Unfortunately peop's vote for the colour of their **** because they cannot see beyond the immediate horizon. 

It's all a mess and will remain so until we get devoloution for Scotland and then whats left will have to rethink the constituition. 

ps. not sure but I think the vote to join the EU was a larger majority than Brexit. 

Don't want to derail the thread but your quiet right, which was news to me 👍

 

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-referendum-not-largest-democratic-exercise/

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50 minutes ago, oowee said:

ps. not sure but I think the vote to join the EU was a larger majority than Brexit. 

 

45 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

That vote was to join a single market, not to be governed from afar! 

The 1975 vote wasnt a vote to join, we had already 'joined' , we never got THAT vote.

It was a vote of whether to remain in it, and its highly likely that if we had said no, the British government was so committed to the project, that vote would have been ignored or rerun , till we made the 'right' decision .

2016 was a re run of the original, and multiple attempts were made to ignore or rerun again, till the 'right' vote was obtained.
Thanks to a few stalwarts, and a solid majority , we just scraped through.

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1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I think you are incorrect.

That vote was to join a single market, not to be governed from afar! 

Was it not the distracted Major who signed us up to the closer political union; that was the game killer? What a **** up?

Personally I'll vote equus asibus over sus domesticus every time, they possess much better qualities?

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13 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Sorry - I quoted the wrong post - I must be reading this in the wrong country.

dont worry about it....i just logged on to "pigeonchat".........thought Teal had gone all lardy-da green...until i realise there were other pigeon forums with pigeons on them:lol:

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Just now, Rim Fire said:

According to the news this morning 4 people smuggler's have been arrested why couldn't they have arrested these smugglers  before people  got killed to late for these poor souls 

Yes indeed, I wonder who will get the blame, I suspect the French will blame the UK.

If these desperate people were stopped and given a safe refuge at the first place they got to, we wouldn't see this dangerous trade carrying on.

Quite why they still persist in coming to this country I struggle to understand.

 

But all the time they do, unsavoury elements will seek to prosper from the trade.

 

I hope the French as a nation can sleep at night with this on their collective conscience. 

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On 17/11/2021 at 20:40, 12gauge82 said:

I can see this being the end of the Tories if they don't get a grip of it, it's really not a difficult problem to solve. 

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to just how easy this would be to solve.and if as you say it ends the tories that would obviously open the door for labour so just how would they deal with it.maybe lay on special ferries to bring them all over for free.one question is how do these people manage to get through so many eu countries without the required visas and papers yet if i or you were to srrive on a plane or ferry without them we would be loaded straight back on the next ship back.

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54 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Quite why they still persist in coming to this country I struggle to understand.

There are a huge number of reasons;

  1. The UK has a reputation for being refugee friendly - (free health, education, housing etc)
  2. Many of them have friends/relatives here
  3. Many of them speak English as a second language
  4. France has miserable muddy refugee camps (Calais area) where the tents are 'taken away' by the authorities - then more given by aid agencies and generally made very unwelcome (I believe France does have better facilities in other places).  They will try anything to get away from that nightmare.
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1 hour ago, bostonmick said:

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to just how easy this would be to solve.and if as you say it ends the tories that would obviously open the door for labour so just how would they deal with it.maybe lay on special ferries to bring them all over for free.one question is how do these people manage to get through so many eu countries without the required visas and papers yet if i or you were to srrive on a plane or ferry without them we would be loaded straight back on the next ship back.

Oh soo true. I have a place in Spain and make regular trips, out there at moment. First of all I have to complete a lengthy on line form ,prove a double jab and show this before I get on plane and again on arrival. If I cant do this then I cant go. 

Same on my return but an even lengthier UK form. Plus I have to buy a lateral flow test for day 2 and show proof of that. Failure prevents me returning to UK. 

I am a law abiding citizen going about my legitimate business but life is made far more difficult for me than this lot of illegals just doing what they want and forcing their way into the country. Yet they are made welcome, put up in hotels and given money and anything else they need. Knowing once here they are here ,they are beyond the point of no return and will be looked after for the rest of their lives by the UK tax payer. 

Come back Nige you are the only politician I would trust to put an end to this.

Edited by TRINITY
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