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End of online anonymity following Sir David Amess' Death


udderlyoffroad
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1 minute ago, Scully said:

Besides having no clue as to how this will prevent anyone being stabbed, I thought anyones identity could already be traced online by those in authority? 

That was my thoughts too. I've seen videos on apps of people behaving like idiots spewing bile and someone from the other side of the world posting up the name and address of said idiot in their own comment section or a response video. I believe its called doxxing or something, so if Joe public has the capability to do that, you can bet your wee bum the government could do it in minutes.

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13 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

No, that would be unilateral rather than multilateral so completely irrelevant. 

You rather missed the emoji in my original post indicating I said that with tongue firmly in cheek, didn't you?

 

13 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

The people I know also who know who I am. If people PM me and include their name I always include my name in response. 

How's that relevant?  You seem to have wilfully ignored the issue.

Assuming worst case scenario here*, you will be required to display your full name, not 'Osama Bin Drinking' or some such, on any social media platform, including PW.

That said, no one so far has posted that they favour such a measure.  But there are a few on here who do use their real name, I wonder if we'll hear from any of them.

 

11 hours ago, Wymondley said:

You would still post under your chosen user name, however if you made death threats or spouted hate speech etc you could be traced.

I could of course be completely wrong!

Yes, what you have described is the situation we have now, not what is proposed. 

*which, given the Covid 'emergency' legislation was extended again in the HoC last night, sans vote, doesn't seem particularly far-fetched.

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The problem with knee jerk responses is that they make bad laws.

And we need to keep saying out loud ‘laws are only for the law abiding’.

When have dedicated religious nut jobs, gangsters and loonies every stopped or paused because they would be breaking the law?

According to the law we should have no hand gun crime at all and no stabbings with fixed bladed knives over X cm long. Even down to the small stuff like car tax and insurance, it’s the law abiding that get caught out and in court and the serial offenders know what to do and carry on regardless.

I have no idea how internet anonymity played a part in the murder of Sir David Ames but it appears to me to be zero, and all I hear is the clatter of a bandwagon.

Does anyone think for one moment that even if such a law were passed the deranged and the committed wouldn’t find a way round it?

Drip, drip, drip away those civil liberties, never to return.  

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48 minutes ago, JDog said:

I would like to see PW end membership anonymity. The Trolls would soon disappear.

Ummm, JDog, you wouldn't like to start practicing what you preach, would you?  Or is that just epic double-bluff trolling? 😂

 

43 minutes ago, Mungler said:

The problem with knee jerk responses is that they make bad laws.

Amen.  I wonder if we can start a religion where bad legislation is considered haram and thus incredibly offensive to us true believers.

 

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4 hours ago, Mungler said:

The problem with knee jerk responses is that they make bad laws.

And we need to keep saying out loud ‘laws are only for the law abiding’.

When have dedicated religious nut jobs, gangsters and loonies every stopped or paused because they would be breaking the law?

According to the law we should have no hand gun crime at all and no stabbings with fixed bladed knives over X cm long. Even down to the small stuff like car tax and insurance, it’s the law abiding that get caught out and in court and the serial offenders know what to do and carry on regardless.

I have no idea how internet anonymity played a part in the murder of Sir David Ames but it appears to me to be zero, and all I hear is the clatter of a bandwagon.

Does anyone think for one moment that even if such a law were passed the deranged and the committed wouldn’t find a way round it?

Drip, drip, drip away those civil liberties, never to return.  

All more fodder for the sheeple?

The clown behind this proposal seems to be seeking 5 minutes of fame at the expense of everyone? Oh dear just remembered how this works. The actions of ! person disrupts the lives of tens of thousands?

Result, nothing resolved but fame claimed for the display?

More and more like East Germany of old?

 

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10 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

That said, no one so far has posted that they favour such a measure.  But there are a few on here who do use their real name, I wonder if we'll hear from any of them.

Apologies, my response made almost no sense. I was just blurting out two points that popped into my head. 

The reduction in anonymity if it worked could make the internet a nicer place. 

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15 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

To those advocating using their real identitys, I'm not sure you've thought it through, removing anonymity for licence holders may not be a good idea, it could make it very easy for criminals to identify targets to acquire firearms

But the criminal would have to use there real name too 🤔

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Oh no! I'm stuffed!  Not, as I'm smart enough not to post on a public forum any specific personal details.

I do like it when you use a forum with peoples' real names because it very much reduces the amount of "trolling" (if people want to call it that) or, as I call it, "being a ****".  I think it extends a greater level of respect to the people you converse with on a forum if you use your real name.

As an example, one of my industry's forums has always insisted on real names and has vetted new membership applications, whereas the others don't.  It's very much a gentlemen's club kind of atmosphere, no hate or flaming, because you know you're going to be directly accountable if you do act out of order.

But as to this country legislating towards removing online anonymity by law.....wow, just wow, that's a real big hot potato.  I can't see it's possible because it just isn't doable.  The nerds who can circumvent the "system" will always win.  It'll be a disaster as ever-increasing funds are thrown at an ever more wily adversary until they quietly give it up, spinning the situation around so they don't lose face.

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On 20/10/2021 at 22:22, Jim Neal said:

Oh no! I'm stuffed!  Not, as I'm smart enough not to post on a public forum any specific personal details.

I do like it when you use a forum with peoples' real names because it very much reduces the amount of "trolling" (if people want to call it that) or, as I call it, "being a ****".  I think it extends a greater level of respect to the people you converse with on a forum if you use your real name.

As an example, one of my industry's forums has always insisted on real names and has vetted new membership applications, whereas the others don't.  It's very much a gentlemen's club kind of atmosphere, no hate or flaming, because you know you're going to be directly accountable if you do act out of order.

But as to this country legislating towards removing online anonymity by law.....wow, just wow, that's a real big hot potato.  I can't see it's possible because it just isn't doable.  The nerds who can circumvent the "system" will always win.  It'll be a disaster as ever-increasing funds are thrown at an ever more wily adversary until they quietly give it up, spinning the situation around so they don't lose face.

No doubt the nerds are working on this already? 

Lots of very smart cookies out there?

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On 19/10/2021 at 18:55, Windswept said:

It's also a bit daft because if your name is something like John Smith you'll still be mostly anonmous as there's thousands of them but if it's something like Zaphod Beeblebrox you'll be instantly identifiable as there's only one or two of you.

WHY are you spotlighting me ?

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13 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

The nerds who can circumvent the "system" will always win.

 

2 hours ago, old man said:

No doubt the nerds are working on this already? 

The ‘nerds’  have long since solved that problem, no need to work on it.  Per my original post – and yes I know quoting oneself is terribly gauche:

On 19/10/2021 at 14:53, udderlyoffroad said:

As an aside, this will  leave us with a two-tier internet, and we will all have to get good with VPNs if we want to access services available to the rest of the world, as any sensible host outside of the UK will just geo-block UK IP addresses rather than having to deal with the difficulties associated with verifying an individual's identity.  Unless of course the government want to ban VPNs?   Which would make commerce rather difficult....they couldn't be that stupid, could they?


VPNs are the technology allowing the white collar workers of the world to work securely from home, so any attempts to ban them would be spectacularly ill-informed.

This is why the proposal is so terribly flawed; attempt to log in to your social media site of choice in the UK.  “Sorry, we need you to verify yourself with government ID and use your real name”.  No problemo, fire up a VPN client, set it to…..the USA and to your social media site it appears you’re logging in stateside.  “Welcome back MarvelComicsFan69, please continue to share your illegal-in -the-UK-opinion about what constitutes a biological women/Immigration levels/ardent followers of certain monotheistic religions being incompatible with modern society/other ‘hate speech’

Hence the ‘2-tier internet’ statement in the OP.  The UK will become a remarkably unattractive place to do business for social media platforms.  No great loss, you may think, but frankly legislating the UK into an undesirable place for tech companies to operate would be a stupid move.  Almost as daft as digital sales tax.  No conservative government would be stupid enough to....wait

Damn.

Where did I put that visa application?
 

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1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

VPNs are the technology allowing the white collar workers of the world to work securely from home, so any attempts to ban them would be spectacularly ill-informed.

Not so sure about this, the VPN I use to access my employer's systems is a different animal from the ones offered as a service to enable anonymity and access to regionally restricted content.  There have already been cases where government agencies have forced VPN providers to surrender identities of "persons of interest" (i.e. HideMyAss if I recall correctly).  It would probably be sufficient to pass legislation enabling official access to personal data of VPN users to make public VPNs unattractive to most.  Fortunately offshoring would make enforcing this rather tricky.

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On 19/10/2021 at 20:44, enfieldspares said:

Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither. Or some such said Benjamin Franklin.

The measures will be easily by passed by those who need to be caught out. Its a totally toothless piece of legislation. If they want to read my posts and emails feel free. Even on here I use my real name, Nothing to hide

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13 hours ago, Vince Green said:

The measures will be easily by passed by those who need to be caught out. Its a totally toothless piece of legislation. If they want to read my posts and emails feel free. Even on here I use my real name, Nothing to hide

Oh hang on a second does that mean we can all read and easily identify every thing posted by the makers of these laughable unenforceable suggestions.

😂🤣

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Possibly if this starts in earnest a chain reaction will follow, some outed who assumed to be immune? Hopefully.

Personally on one hand don't give a fig as have nothing to hide but strenuously object to another freedom being removed in our downhill slide.

What's next? Our cars already classed as public places? Our houses next?

The end point won't be pretty?

Remembering information is power?

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I think this is a major case of, "jumping before you are bitten".

As Zapp said, it is not too difficult for the "authorities" to identify posters now.
However,  it is almost impossible for ordinary people to do so, from the information on this (and most other) Forums.
If you post your real name, without an address/telephone number, IP number,  etc., it is useless.

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