Policing in retail

[mgsontour]

Hi all

Unsure if I'm missing a vital point but watched the news last night regarding the mask wearing on public transport / in shops. The reporter was asking people getting off a bus why they didn't have one on with the normal shrug of the shoulders combined with dunno. The head of the Coop was adamant his staff weren't there to police it as last time it was a cause of tension.

May I ask do you all who do you think are going to be on hand to dish out the £200 fines because the report didn't explain that point?

I understand the options but unsure how it is ever going to happen because to me it's a crucial link of the chain to keep us alive and as us lot of practical people know the old story of the weakest link in the heat of battle

[Vince Green]

Thats exactly the point. By not enforcing it they send out the signal that it doesn't matter.

I travel regularly on London Underground where it has always been the law that you wear masks. It was never relaxed for public transport but very few people now wear masks. Even the transport police who patrol the platforms and other public areas dont enforce it.

 

[Ultrastu]

If you feel compelled to wear a mask for your own piece of mind , then please do so . If you think it some how reduces the risk of viral infection , then carry on .But why would you force your deluded beliefs onto others  ? If you belive your mask will stop you getting infected then what's the problem with others not wearing theirs  ? Your works just fine  

I think everyone should hop on one leg to reduce infection of covid .should I force you to do that  ? 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Ultrastu

[Walker570]

32 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

If you feel compelled to wear a mask for your own piece of mind , then please do so . If you think it some how reduces the risk of viral infection , then carry on .But why would you force your deluded beliefs onto others  ? If you belive your mask will stop you getting infected then what's the problem with others not wearing theirs  ? Your works just fine  

I think everyone should hop on one leg to reduce infection of covid .should I force you to do that  ? 

Could not have put it better.  My wife met a lady who's husband wore a mask  at all times...in bed I don't know....but she didn't.  He got covid but she didn't

There is no doubt, like so much today, they are just covering their backs. Example. I have just hired a large six inch chipper for two days and on return they asked if we had been given protective glasses and helmets when we collected it. I said no and he said well we have to offer them at least because we might get sued.I will not be wearing a mask and if told I need one to enter a shop then they have lost my business.

In my view they have petrified so many people with this and thoes people will never recover/ In addition a lot of money has been made out of it as well.

[Yellow Bear]

33 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

If you feel compelled to wear a mask for your own piece of mind , then please do so . If you think it some how reduces the risk of viral infection , then carry on .But why would you force your deluded beliefs onto others  ? If you belive your mask will stop you getting infected then what's the problem with others not wearing theirs  ? Your works just fine  

I think everyone should hop on one leg to reduce infection of covid .should I force you to do that  ? 

Wearing a mask only slightly reduces your chance of infection but it does significantly reduce your chance of passing it on if you have it.  A person is infectious for at least 2 days before symptoms show, if they do at all.  By wearing a mask you are protecting others.

[bostonmick]

So advice is to get vaccine and wear a mask in confined areas etc.and people are coming up with all sorts of excuses to do neither purely because they are told to.i wonder what the anti vac and mask people woulx say if the government had said from the start we are not going to do anything.no jabs no masks no lockdowns just let the virus run.and when the hospitals are full of people just lying on beds and trolleys to die with no treatment at all.then of course how would these antis react if other members of their family could not get life saving/changing treatments because nothing was beìng done.all we have is what we have in place from scientists who have studied these viruses for decades have recommended. Obviouslh the guy on facebook who is obviously an expert in all things because they discussed it in great detail with some blokes down the pub.if the vaccine keeps you out of intensive care then great if you have covid and your mask stops it going into the air in public places then also great as it will cut the spread.how would you react if you were going in for surgery and the theatre's staf all said we dont bother with masks and we washed our hands yesterday.

[miki]

Yes. By wearing a mask you are protecting others. If you or he/she has CV19 and you are both in a telephone box (mask or not) then after a short time both of you will  have C19. If you are wearing a mask, walking around in a shop, or on a bus or a train, you will not spead the virus so easily and if others are wearing masks their likelyhood of breathing in infected particles is greatly reduced.

Wearing a mask is not 100% ... it reduces the likelyhood of spreading/catching.
Staying out of close proximity to other people reduces the likelyhood of spreading/catching.
Wearinhg a mask and not getting close to people reduces the likehood of spreading/catching CV19 'significantly'.

Don't be selfish, wear a mask, when out and about and when with people you aren't normally close to on a daily basis.

[Ultrastu]

No it doesn't. 

Putting a cotton mask over your mouth is the equivalent  of holding a tennis racquet  in front of your face .

Virus partials are so small that they can and do pass right through a mask .even 5 masks stacked on top of each other  .

When a doctor of virology  works in a lab with infectious  diseases they wear a full  hasmat suit with separate oxygen supply .

A surgeon when operating wears a cotton mask so as not to get  patient blood  in his mouth or accidentally  spit into an open wound  it has zero to do with airborne  viruses  .

When the government  asked the population  to wear masks  its the equivalent  of putting a dinosaur  plaster on a 2 years olds grazed knee  it makes him feel better. But does nothing  to help the healing process  .

Edited December 1, 2021 by Ultrastu

[Gu5]

If you wear a mask and pass wind, you can still smell it; so if that can get through I’m sure a virus can…

[bostonmick]

22 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

No it doesn't. 

Putting a cotton mask over your mouth is the equivalent  of holding a tennis racquet  in front of your face .

Virus partials are so small that they can and do pass right through a mask .even 5 masks stacked on top of each other  .

When a doctor of virology  works in a lab with infectious  diseases they wear a full  hasmat suit with separate oxygen supply .

A surgeon when operating wears a cotton mask so as not to get  patient blood  in his mouth or accidentally  spit into an open wound  it has zero to do with airborne  viruses  .

When the government  asked the population  to wear masks  its the equivalent  of putting a dinosaur  plaster on a 2 years olds grazed knee  it makes him feel better. But does nothing  to help the healing process  .

So your saying the virus passes straight through the mask.not one particle sticks to either the inside or outside of the mask.i take it surgeons only wear gowns and hats to stop any blood staining their clothes that they are going to wear to the golf club or restaurant after work.have you got any links to scientific proof that masks are totaĺly ineffective. Its a totaĺly selfish attitude of those with absolutely no medical or scientific background to deny anything.funny how anti vaccine people changed their mind shen told they cannot travel abroad for holidays without having it.soon went off to the nearest centre.

Edited December 1, 2021 by bostonmick

[Scully]

If masks worked then we wouldn't be allowed to make do with a snood or a veil. 

[udderlyoffroad]

2 hours ago, miki said:

Wearing a mask is not 100% ... it reduces the likelyhood of spreading/catching.

Demonstrably not.  The data is debatable at best, counterproductive at worst.  I.e. Those who are immuno compromised, for instance, those who we are trying to protect, are the very last people who should be holding bacteria sodden rags against their face....

 

17 minutes ago, bostonmick said:

k.i take it surgeons only wear gowns and hats to stop any blood staining their clothes that they are going to wear to the golf club or restaurant after work

Trained clinicians using PPE in a clinical environment, properly, bares no comparison the general population wearing a bacteria sodden rag over their face.  Using data from the former to make the case for the latter is foolish at best.  Brain-meltingly naive if you happen to be defining public policy.

26 minutes ago, bostonmick said:

have you got any links to scientific proof that masks are totaĺly ineffective

That's not how the scientific process works.  But yes, the data around mask wearing for slowing the transmission amongst the general population (not in a clinical setting!) shows very little efficacy.

 

2 hours ago, miki said:

Don't be selfish, wear a mask, when out and about and when with people you aren't normally close to on a daily basis.

And given all of the above, masks are the very definition of a virtue signal.

It also ignores the downsides to wearing a mask, for instance to children's development.

Don't be selfish, consider the whole picture....

Also, I gather COVID can be spread by mosquitos. Government will therefore mandate us all putting up a 6ft chain link fences round our houses by next summer, to keep the mossies out.

Don't be selfish, put up a chain link fence....

[bostonmick]

27 minutes ago, Scully said:

If masks worked then we wouldn't be allowed to make do with a snood or a veil. 

I would agree that the plastic face shields will have no value.but as the virus sticks itself to objects and people why would it pass straight through a mask.

I have today written an email to boris suggesting that he form a meeting with the experts on pigeonwatch and facebook to decide on actions to take over this virus.i feel sure that if this was to happen covid would be eradicated from the planet within a few days.

[Scully]

Just now, bostonmick said:

I would agree that the plastic face shields will have no value.but as the virus sticks itself to objects and people why would it pass straight through a mask.

🤷‍♂️ A snood isn’t a mask, nor is a pulled up jumper, but both are perfectly acceptable as ‘face coverings’. None of that makes sense to me, given the stressed importance of wearing masks, especially as it is quite possible to blow out a candle through a mask. 

[udderlyoffroad]

5 minutes ago, bostonmick said:

why would it pass straight through a mask.

According to this paper

Quote

then the minimum size of a respiratory particle that can contain SARS-CoV-2 is approximately 4.7 μm

The mesh size of those chinesium masks (that all say on the packaging aren't effective!!) is er......20 μm if you're lucky....  A mask with a mesh size small enough to restrain the virus particles, you wouldn't be able to breathe through!  You would need something with positive pressurisation/mechanical assistance....

[bostonmick]

5 minutes ago, Scully said:

🤷‍♂️ A snood isn’t a mask, nor is a pulled up jumper, but both are perfectly acceptable as ‘face coverings’. None of that makes sense to me, given the stressed importance of wearing masks, especially as it is quite possible to blow out a candle through a mask. 

From what i understand all viruses stick to surfaces so would suggest they are tacky so again why would they not stick to a paper or cloth mask or cover.or are they very selective.

[Scully]

2 minutes ago, bostonmick said:

From what i understand all viruses stick to surfaces so would suggest they are tacky so again why would they not stick to a paper or cloth mask or cover.or are they very selective.

I have no idea how selective they are. Your breath itself is full of moisture, but you’re able to breath both in and out through a mask. 

[bostonmick]

53 minutes ago, Scully said:

I have no idea how selective they are. Your breath itself is full of moisture, but you’re able to breath both in and out through a mask. 

It is indeed and after wearing a mask for a while you can feel that the inside is damp.perhaps the virus spors use this moisture to slide out on.we can only work with what we have.i do not know if masks will cure all. however one of the ways to reduce the spread was to pay people to sit at home i dont recall much protest against that.in fact quite the opposite many did not want to return to working as normal.

Edited December 1, 2021 by bostonmick

[Scully]

Indeed. I have nothing against the optional wearing of masks, but I do however against the compulsory wearing of masks, as we have been vaccinated for a reason. 
My OH wasn’t happy being forced to sit at home despite being paid 80% of minimum wage ( which amounts to **** all ) but she did get a nice tan and it did ensure the dogs got plenty of exercise. 🙂
Being self employed I carried on working more or less as normal throughout. 
There are five people in our village who got so used to working from home, they are quite happily continuing to do so. No more daily commutes for them. 

[Rim Fire]

Let me put it this was if we had a p;;;;;g competition and i wore trousers and you didn't who would get the wettest me a mask will help to prevent spread of co19

[udderlyoffroad]

1 hour ago, Rim Fire said:

Let me put it this was if we had a p;;;;;g competition and i wore trousers and you didn't who would get the wettest me a mask will help to prevent spread of co19

The pee-pee trousers analogy is infantile and anyone who thinks it is at all analogous needs to re-examine their grasp of physics and logic.

If masks are so effective, were you wearing them last week?  If not, why not?

 

1 hour ago, bostonmick said:

perhaps the virus spors use this moisture to slide out on.we can only work with what we have.

Literally provided the answer to this connundrum above...the smallest bit of 'spittle' to use the technical term, that the virus can exist in, pass straight through masks!!

[Ultrastu]

If your mask is so great At keeping you safe why complain that I'm not wearing one? 

You also have to consider that if this virus was allowed to run rampant in the first place  would it have burnt it self out by now .are all these vaccine and avoidance measures  actually prolonging it and allowing more variations to exist .?

If you can contain a virus  initially then great ,once that has failed , are you better (as a nation ) to just let it run its course ?

I honestly don't know .but it seems like country's like Australia  that avoided it for 12 months are now in full lock down and 

Countries that did less are recovering. 

 

[bostonmick]

9 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

If your mask is so great At keeping you safe why complain that I'm not wearing one? 

You also have to consider that if this virus was allowed to run rampant in the first place  would it have burnt it self out by now .are all these vaccine and avoidance measures  actually prolonging it and allowing more variations to exist .?

If you can contain a virus  initially then great ,once that has failed , are you better (as a nation ) to just let it run its course ?

I honestly don't know .but it seems like country's like Australia  that avoided it for 12 months are now in full lock down and 

Countries that did less are recovering. 

 

This virus is worldwide so while we could let it burn itself out here othercountries would have to do the same at the same time.as that is not possible the only option is every country closes its borders completely until the virus has gone completely now we know this is also not possible so we have to do what we can with what we have .if this was just a uk virus it would be an easier thing to deal with but its not so we will continue to see variants for years to come until maybe one arrives that wipes out the greaterpart of the human race.and if it gets that bad i doubt anyone will whine about any measures imposed to try and keep us alive.we as a race are not invincible although some seem to think they are.

[bluesj]

I think some people are being intensionally thick about mask wearing and how they work.  

[Rim Fire]

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

The pee-pee trousers analogy is infantile and anyone who thinks it is at all analogous needs to re-examine their grasp of physics and logic.

If masks are so effective, were you wearing them last week?  If not, why not?

 

Literally provided the answer to this connundrum above...the smallest bit of 'spittle' to use the technical term, that the virus can exist in, pass straight through masks!!

Yes i was wearing a mask i am in wales i really dont see see the problem wearing them