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Northern Ireland vote on Fox hunting with hounds


Rob85
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25 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Do you report it to the police every time you see someone break a law? It's not my job to report wrong doing, I simply will not support them. 

Really? We’ll take that as a ‘no’ then! For someone who is so vehemently opposed to fox hunt packs, like you have been in the recent past on this forum, even when they haven’t done anything illegal, I find that quite astounding. 
For your information, I can’t really say I’ve seen any shooter do anything illegal; I’ve seen some do things I don’t approve of, but nothing I could genuinely call illegal. I’ll have a think and see if anything comes to mind. 
I see plenty of people speeding and talking on phones while driving ( the latter of which I have reported them for …..bit of a bug bear of mine that ) but unlike you, I can’t say I’ve been a participant in a field sport where something illegal was going on. 

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8 hours ago, Scully said:

Really? We’ll take that as a ‘no’ then! For someone who is so vehemently opposed to fox hunt packs, like you have been in the recent past on this forum, even when they haven’t done anything illegal, I find that quite astounding. 
For your information, I can’t really say I’ve seen any shooter do anything illegal; I’ve seen some do things I don’t approve of, but nothing I could genuinely call illegal. I’ll have a think and see if anything comes to mind. 
I see plenty of people speeding and talking on phones while driving ( the latter of which I have reported them for …..bit of a bug bear of mine that ) but unlike you, I can’t say I’ve been a participant in a field sport where something illegal was going on. 

What on earth are you talking about, you have made up and added on to what I said to suit your argument. I'm not going to bother responding to that. 

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33 minutes ago, redial said:

Like Ben said earlier, when hunting goes, shooting will become top of the list. 

They will hit us on two fronts.

Shooting itself and gun ownership. We should be supporting each other as field sportsman. That way, we may prolong things.

Agreed there was a lot of debate over here in NI Regarding if the bill had been passed would they go after shooting fishing after etc Now I have to be truthful I don’t agree with a fox being tore to shreds with hounds I’d much rather see them being hunted with a rifle clean one shot kill But as a hunting community think we have to stick together Every one have there own views 

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12 hours ago, Scully said:

Have I? Which bit? 

Where have I said I have been a PARTICIPANT in a field sport where something illegal was going on? 

I'll answer that for you, I absolutely haven't. 

Back to your post, I've never witnessed a shooter doing anything illegal, we must be one of the most law abiding communitys in the country. I certainly can't say that for the hunts, although I'm not saying all or even most aren't. 

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31 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Where have I said I have been a PARTICIPANT in a field sport where something illegal was going on? 

I'll answer that for you, I absolutely haven't. 

Back to your post, I've never witnessed a shooter doing anything illegal, we must be one of the most law abiding communitys in the country. I certainly can't say that for the hunts, although I'm not saying all or even most aren't. 

On 07/12/2021 at 19:39, 12gauge82 said:

It's far less wide spread. Close your eyes to it if you want, or maybe you don't get about much but it is my first hand experience across many places in the UK. 

On 07/12/2021 at 20:21, 12gauge82 said:

It is far less wide spread, for a start, hunting with hounds is banned on the main land, Ive seen 8 don't know how many hunts clearly hunting fox and not drag hunting, that is illegal. I can't recall the last time I saw a shooter do something illegal. 

I know alot of land owners up and down the country, I'm far from the only person to experience or witness problems with some of the hunts. 

 

So despite first hand experience you were just observing and not participating? You witnessed one illegal hunt but were so upset and outraged you witnessed another seven?  And did nothing? You really were upset weren't you?

Edited by Scully
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9 hours ago, Scully said:

So despite first hand experience you were just observing and not participating? You witnessed one illegal hunt but were so upset and outraged you witnessed another seven?  And did nothing? You really were upset weren't you?

That 8 is a typo and meant to be a I which is below it on a keyboard. 

I've probably witnessed that (definitely heard of many more) many hunts or maybe more behaving in a very poor or illegal manner though. Some of the hunts I'm referring to were trespassing on a land owner I know land at the time, another was on public land and tried to tell me I needed to put my dogs on a lead for their protection and that I should leave as well. I've seen several clearly hunting foxes, I've heard many stories from people I know of damage to their property and gates being left open and I'm talking other shooters here, not antis or vegans, who have also recounted awful behaviour. To add balance, I've also witnessed many seemingly doing nothing wrong, whether they were on a drag or hunting fox I don't know but either way the fact remains I've never participated in one as you falsely claimed. 

If a large number of shooters behaved in some of the poor manner mentioned above, we wouldn't have a legal sport anymore either. 

And like you, I witness illegal and poor behaviour by people regularly, whether that's not wearing a seat belt, driving on the phone, anti social behaviour in city centers, speeding. Im absolutely against any of that, but like you and most other people it doesn't mean I report it everytime I see it, I've got better things to do, I'm certainly not going to support it though. 

 

And there you go again making things up to suit your argument, please show where I've said I "was that upset"? 

I'll answer that for you to, I haven't! 

I think it's disgraceful behaviour, but other than a nuisance and my not agreeing with their behaviour, I certainly wouldn't say I was upset. 

Edited by 12gauge82
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3 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

That 8 is a typo and meant to be a I which is below it on a keyboard. 

I've probably witnessed that (definitely heard of many more) many hunts or maybe more behaving in a very poor or illegal manner though. Some of the hunts I'm referring to were trespassing on a land owner I know land at the time, another was on public land and tried to tell me I needed to put my dogs on a lead for their protection and that I should leave as well. I've seen several clearly hunting foxes, I've heard many stories from people I know of damage to their property and gates being left open and I'm talking other shooters here, not antis or vegans, who have also recounted awful behaviour. To add balance, I've also witnessed many seemingly doing nothing wrong, whether they were on a drag or hunting fox I don't know but either way the fact remains I've never participated in one as you falsely claimed. 

If a large number of shooters behaved in some of the poor manner mentioned above, we wouldn't have a legal sport anymore either. 

And like you, I witness illegal and poor behaviour by people regularly, whether that's not wearing a seat belt, driving on the phone, anti social behaviour in city centers, speeding. Im absolutely against any of that, but like you and most other people it doesn't mean I report it everytime I see it, I've got better things to do, I'm certainly not going to support it though. 

 

And there you go again making things up to suit your argument, please show where I've said I "was that upset"? 

I'll answer that for you to, I haven't! 

I think it's disgraceful behaviour, but other than a nuisance and my not agreeing with their behaviour, I certainly wouldn't say I was upset. 

Ah, those darned typos eh!

Not upset then. 🙂Fair do’s. 👍

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57 minutes ago, wymberley said:

You have the advantage of me. I must be missing/unaware of something as for the life of me I don't understand about the timing.

Don't misunderstand me. Back along when it all kicked off BASC asked its members to support the hunters - if I remember correctly by signing something. I said I'd only be too pleased to do so if they (hunters) stopped continually pointing out that they never left a wounded an animal unlike the shooting fraternity and if they chose not to, then and although I would not say anything against them, they'd lose my support. Well, they didn't stop so I didn't sign. The sad thing is, is that there is no need of LACS et al as they're quite capable of destroying their case all by themselves. In this quiet rural backwater - like any other in the UK - it is perfectly conceivable that the moggy could have been a toddler sitting on the doorstep having a bite to eat to which one of the hounds took a fancy - game, set and match. What on earth was the handler doing in that village location where pets and children were to be expected when there was the whole of the last few miles of the UK to go play in?

Sorry wymberley, I should have mentioned that yesterday the Countryside Alliance announced their intent to pursue the BBC for breaches in editorial guidelines - re their bias misrepresentation of the Northern Ireland fox hunting vote. I don’t necessarily have a strong view on fox hunting, one way or the other, but at least they are drawing the canon fire at the moment. If they fall, no prizes for guessing who’s targeted next……?!

 

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7 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Sorry wymberley, I should have mentioned that yesterday the Countryside Alliance announced their intent to pursue the BBC for breaches in editorial guidelines - re their bias misrepresentation of the Northern Ireland fox hunting vote. I don’t necessarily have a strong view on fox hunting, one way or the other, but at least they are drawing the canon fire at the moment. If they fall, no prizes for guessing who’s targeted next……?!

 

Ah, right, I wasn't aware.

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5 hours ago, yeet said:

Fox hunting with hounds is stupid, if poor people did it it'd be banned in a week.

Why is it stupid ? No more stupid than blowing a raised pheasant out of the sky that has just been flushed over your head or sat on the bank for hours to catch a fish. None of which are stupid and all are great fun and long may they continue 

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I  am not going to apologize for enjoying field sports I have been at since the age of 11. Said it before and I don't need to because we all know. In any field sport that involves live quarry there is suffering which we all ways try and avoid or keep to complete minimum. If a shooter drops a high fast bird you can be dam sure he is like YES the same as a lurcher man that back in day watched his dog a have a great run on a hare. Like a hounds man the listens to hounds in cry down a misty gully on a frosty morning and the fox runs rings around them and gives a great outing before being caught. Also every sportsman has or should have respect and be equally as happy if the quarry gets away. I returned some lovely bass this year plenty of 6-7lbers and watching them swim away after gently reviving is a great feeling. I see a pigeon fly off a nest I don't come back and ambush it. I see fox cubs in the summer I steer the dog away. I see a rabbit on the road I let it get out the way. It is just what we do. We look after the country side. If you don't like fox hunting don't do it. But keep your beak out and let others do what they enjoy

Edited by captainhastings
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49 minutes ago, captainhastings said:

I  am not going to apologize for enjoying field sports I have been at since the age of 11. Said it before and I don't need to because we all know. In any field sport that involves live quarry there is suffering which we all ways try and avoid or keep to complete minimum. If a shooter drops a high fast bird you can be dam sure he is like YES the same as a lurcher man that back in day watched his dog a have a great run on a hare. Like a hounds man the listens to hounds in cry down a misty gully on a frosty morning and the fox runs rings around them and gives a great outing before being caught. Also every sportsman has or should have respect and be equally as happy if the quarry gets away. I returned some lovely bass this year plenty of 6-7lbers and watching them swim away after gently reviving is a great feeling. I see a pigeon fly off a nest I don't come back and ambush it. I see fox cubs in the summer I steer the dog away. I see a rabbit on the road I let it get out the way. It is just what we do. We look after the country side. If you don't like fox hunting don't do it. But keep your beak out and let others do what they enjoy

👍 This is spot on i ran a few hounds and my mate ran the same we was a shooting pack the hairs on the back of your neck would stand up when in full cry any sport that involves live quarry is cruel to a point even trapping but you do the very best to make that animal suffer no more that its  got to. just because you don't like it doesn't mean  others haven't go to 

Captainhastings i am jealous of the Bass you release as i have just got into lure fishing had plenty on baits but struggling on lures roll on the summer 

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1 hour ago, captainhastings said:

I  am not going to apologize for enjoying field sports I have been at since the age of 11. Said it before and I don't need to because we all know. In any field sport that involves live quarry there is suffering which we all ways try and avoid or keep to complete minimum. If a shooter drops a high fast bird you can be dam sure he is like YES the same as a lurcher man that back in day watched his dog a have a great run on a hare. Like a hounds man the listens to hounds in cry down a misty gully on a frosty morning and the fox runs rings around them and gives a great outing before being caught. Also every sportsman has or should have respect and be equally as happy if the quarry gets away. I returned some lovely bass this year plenty of 6-7lbers and watching them swim away after gently reviving is a great feeling. I see a pigeon fly off a nest I don't come back and ambush it. I see fox cubs in the summer I steer the dog away. I see a rabbit on the road I let it get out the way. It is just what we do. We look after the country side. If you don't like fox hunting don't do it. But keep your beak out and let others do what they enjoy

I have to agree with this. I’m not a fan of fox hunting and never have been, but I wouldn’t dream of telling others they shouldn’t be doing it.

I don’t even lamp foxes anymore, as I quite like foxes and always did it out of a sense of duty for mates who had Fell sheep, but if one appeared in range on a driven day it would get a barrel or two, for the same reason. I have absolutely no problem with others shooting or hunting them however. 
We will drag fish out of water with a hook through its mouth, have even done it with a hook through an eye, but it never stopped me fishing. 
I have wounded rabbits, weasels ( awful for a man who loves mustelids ) pheasants, pigeons, corvids and rats, ( but fortunately never a hare nor a Roe ) and although regrettable, none of it prevents me from doing what I do.

When beating I’m always rooting for the high bird to get away, ( more for me on keepers day! 🙂)  but equally pleased to see a fine shot fold it dead in the air. It’s a weird conundrum. 🤷‍♂️

I’m involved in killing things for my own entertainment, so I’m in no position to point the finger at anyone else. 
Deliberate and avoidable cruelty is an entirely different matter. 

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