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joined the .410 club today


quentyn
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my lovely wife asked me what i wanted for Xmas and the only think i could think of was a .410 :) 

 

so off to the gunshop we went where they had a Kofs and a Yildiz - my wife was apparently considering getting a beretta but given they are £1800 and there is a wait she thought otherwise 

we had a play with both and eventually we both agreed that the Kofs was the better gun and was only £50 more. The engraving, that it has ejectors and the overall feel of the gun made it worth the extra 10%. 

I have a shoot on the 27th where it will be put through its paces ! 

i have 2 questions 

 

1, can i remove the automatic safety myself ? with my airguns i have always done all work myself but with my shotguns i have always deferred to a gunsmith. Given how long it took the gunsmith to remove the auto safely from my Beretta i suspect its just a single part to remove ? 

2, do you know if you can buy a youth stock as a spare ? i presume its 1 bolt to swap the stocks over ? i have the adult version and if i could make it more child friendly that would be good 

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If you are going to get a spare stock then DO IT NOW! Then put in in your cabinet and forget about it. Why? As these things are easier gotten when the gun is new than gotten five or ten years later when it is out of production. Also IMHO and again NOW have that stock fitted to the gun at the shop and put a box of cartridges through it just to test its itegrity. Then as said take it off and forget about it.

Edited by enfieldspares
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17 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

If you are going to get a spare stock then DO IT NOW! Then put in in your cabinet and forget about it. Why? As these things are easier gotten when the gun is new than gotten five or ten years later when it is out of production. Also IMHO and again NOW have that stock fitted to the gun at the shop and put a box of cartridges through it just to test its itegrity. Then as said take it off and forget about it.

sensible comment :good:

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30 minutes ago, London Best said:

This seems to be the one thing where Scully and I disagree. I think all those with non automatic safeties should be melted down.

Tend to agree and could not understand you saying you didn't buy the Yildiz because it didn't have ejectors...both of mine do.

Only ever owned a non auto safety which was my trap gun back in the early 70s but on a game gun for certain I see no problem in having an auto safety that is what your thumb is for.

Hope your KOFS behaves itself as heard about problems with same from Bunnyblaster on here who soon got rid of his I believe.

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to add to advise on cartridges.  I normally load my own but on recent shoots I have been trialing some of the relatively new Lylevale 3 inch and found them to be excellent if I do my part. Killed some storming birds out to 40yrds.  The Hull High Pheasant is also an excellent shell as are Fiocchi.  I shoot #7s as a norm with #6s if I know the birds are going to be well up.  I'm not going to stir up the choke conversation again but I normally shoot ful and full unless I know we are into over the hedges partridge then drop down to half choke.

Welcome to the club.  I think you will enjoy shooting the 410 gauge it will do the job if you do out at sensible ranges.

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Hello, are you sure the kof has a auto safety as when I looked at a new O/U the Kof did not have this the Yildiz did and it was a extra £50 to fit in the Kof gun, 

1 minute ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, are you sure the kof has a auto safety as when I looked at a new O/U the Kof did not have this the Yildiz did and it was a extra £50 to fit in the Kof gun, 

Although the Kof has a slightly better finish in practice there about the same made for the price, I chose the Yildiz 

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One thing I'd ask. And this is based on the last time I used a side by side .410 very many many years ago. Is that once upon a time the 3" cartridges had a reputation for being "sticky". That's to say they never ejected cleanly and/or didn't do so as well as the same length, 3", cartridges of 20 bore or 12 bore calibre. So again before the OP buys a slab of brand X or brand Y I'd advise just buy a single box and try before getting a larger number.

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11 hours ago, quentyn said:

my lovely wife asked me what i wanted for Xmas and the only think i could think of was a .410 :) 

 

so off to the gunshop we went where they had a Kofs and a Yildiz - my wife was apparently considering getting a beretta but given they are £1800 and there is a wait she thought otherwise 

we had a play with both and eventually we both agreed that the Kofs was the better gun and was only £50 more. The engraving, that it has ejectors and the overall feel of the gun made it worth the extra 10%. 

I have a shoot on the 27th where it will be put through its paces ! 

i have 2 questions 

 

1, can i remove the automatic safety myself ? with my airguns i have always done all work myself but with my shotguns i have always deferred to a gunsmith. Given how long it took the gunsmith to remove the auto safely from my Beretta i suspect its just a single part to remove ? 

2, do you know if you can buy a youth stock as a spare ? i presume its 1 bolt to swap the stocks over ? i have the adult version and if i could make it more child friendly that would be good 

You do indeed have a lovely wife - who buys you a new gun for Christmas! 
I have just been buying a new Turkish 410. Although I bought a dedicated ‘youth’ version for my 11 year old son. I ended up with a Yildiz ejector version. There isn’t a lot of practical difference to be honest between Koffs and Yildiz. Like you I opted for best fit/feel. So far we have only shot clays with ours - but what great fun. Watch out for the chokes being severe however, as they are not scaled down for the 410 like English chokes. For example a 410 half choke is traditionally 8 thou in our gun making culture, where as the Turks (and Europe) have it as 20 though, as it would be for a 12 bore. Their 410 full choke is 40 thou…..!! So basically, the percentage of the bore which is constricted is much greater. I personally find cylinder choke to be great for closer stuff (skeet) and quarter choke, which is a whole 10 thou, to be good for about 30 yards. This is with Eley trap 14 gram 7 12. This is a superb cartridge by the way. I have no 410 game shooting experience yet - so can’t comment in that regard. There are some 410 experts here though, I would take their advice re game shooting. Enjoy!

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7 minutes ago, Fellside said:

The gun is only really safe when open. That’s what I always had drummed in - when I was nipper. 

Yep, had many a slap round the head when I pointed the defunct old damascus set of 16 gauge barrels I was permitted to carry as a 9 year old on partridge shoots, in the wrong direction.  However a safety catch is a secondary safe option. With either auto or man handled you should always bear in mind where those barrels are pointing when you close the gun. Over the years I have seen two or three occasions when guns have gone off as they where closed, fortunately with no injuries.   Butt up barrels down.

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I’ve only once seen a gun discharge when being closed. It actually double discharged and gave the owner a hell of a fright….and me too. While ‘walked-up shooting I’ve seen a few near misses with people not opening their gun when they should. Hence I only go with people I really trust these days. I agree with Walker570 that the safety catch is a secondary layer of safety - I would say not to be entirely relied upon. I don’t know how many times I’ve uttered the words: ‘break your gun’. It becomes a catch phrase. Muzzle sweep is my other pet gripe - don’t get me started……..🙂 Rant ends. 

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2 hours ago, Walker570 said:

Yep, had many a slap round the head when I pointed the defunct old damascus set of 16 gauge barrels I was permitted to carry as a 9 year old on partridge shoots, in the wrong direction.  However a safety catch is a secondary safe option. With either auto or man handled you should always bear in mind where those barrels are pointing when you close the gun. Over the years I have seen two or three occasions when guns have gone off as they where closed, fortunately with no injuries.   Butt up barrels down.

I’m not really bothered about how anyone closes a gun, but if you keep your gun broken or pointed in a safe direction, you don’t need a ‘secondary safe option’. 
 

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36 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’m not really bothered about how anyone closes a gun, but if you keep your gun broken or pointed in a safe direction, you don’t need a ‘secondary safe option’. 
 

True but having been brought up with a manual safety I could not see the point of the non maunal safety on my trap gun back then.  All between the ears basically,  common sense but often not as common as it should be. 

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1 hour ago, Walker570 said:

True but having been brought up with a manual safety I could not see the point of the non maunal safety on my trap gun back then.  All between the ears basically,  common sense but often not as common as it should be. 

I’m not sure what you mean by your trap gun having a non auto safety but also non manual safety?
All my guns have manual safeties, but they’re never used. Common sense indeed. 
It’s quite scary really, the number of people out there who believe that that safety means they’re safe. It’s up there with all those who sweep their muzzles around all and sundry because they don’t know how to remove or return their gun to its slip. 
Like you say, common sense seems uncommon nowadays. 

 

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4 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

An automatic safety only stops the trigger from being pulled.

It does NOT stop the gun from discharging!

But I’d does stop the trigger from being pulled accidentally, such as by catching in something.

Neville sums it up nicely when he says a safety catch is a secondary layer of safety.

I don’t wish to become embroiled in an auto/manual safety catch debate again. There is nothing wrong with a manual catch.......except that some (most) people won’t use them. The most common dangerous act I see in the shooting field is owners of manual safety guns who stand on a drive with the safety off and the gun broken, and then proceed to raise barrels to stock as they mount the gun, straight towards the beating line. As Nev said, he has seen a few guns discharge upon closing. Guns should be closed and pointing skywards when expecting a shot, which is at least safe even if you insist on not using the safety catch.

Not using a safety catch is stupid.

Relying on one is more stupid.

Muzzle awareness at all times.
 

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Triggers can and do accidentally get "pulled" by zipps ,sleeves ,belt buckles ,dogs ,branches   the list is endless .an engaged safety catch eliminates 99% of these accidents to the point that the person hardly knew how close he was to an accidental discharge ,and happily goes about his day without any extra holes in his body .

 

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Welcome to the 410 club. I have long used a 410 for clays and game, I have a Remington 1100 410 skeet that great fun which I shot 19/25 on American skeet with just after I bought it, but I’ve not had the chance to use it lately. I also have a Lincoln O/U 26” 410 that I use for game and clays. I reload all my 410 so cheap to use.

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13 hours ago, Scully said:

I’m not sure what you mean by your trap gun having a non auto safety but also non manual safety?
All my guns have manual safeties, but they’re never used. Common sense indeed. 
It’s quite scary really, the number of people out there who believe that that safety means they’re safe. It’s up there with all those who sweep their muzzles around all and sundry because they don’t know how to remove or return their gun to its slip. 
Like you say, common sense seems uncommon nowadays. 

 

:good:

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