Fellside Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 Just now, London Best said: I am sure I will not be the only one who has had a gamekeeper walk up and thank me at the end of a drive for shooting a jay. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 On 21/01/2022 at 10:37, London Best said: Gas seal, nobody needs a specific personal licence to shoot a jay. It is covered in the “general licence” which applies to everyone. The terms are quite specific, protection of Red Listed birds, you’ve got to know which birds you’re protecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 6 hours ago, bruno22rf said: Thanks for the advice, the Woodland where I see them regularly doesn't let us shoot from March till October so I don't get in there during the nesting season. What I have noticed, without having to look particularly hard, is the huge increase in numbers and species of birds over the last 4 years of shooting Squirrels. Nuthatches and Tree Creepers are almost common this year, in comparison to 4 years ago when none had been spotted. There is no doubt the damage and predation by squirrels on songbirds is immense but jays are also hard on nest and chicks in the spring and summer. Niether are welcome in my wood. Squirrels do a lot of damage on the tit family and also the nuthatch and woodpeckers(also baby bird takers). Since making my wood a squirrel free zone I have noticed a huge increase in these birds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 33 minutes ago, Fisheruk said: The terms are quite specific, protection of Red Listed birds, you’ve got to know which birds you’re protecting. So just choose one then - a red lister that is. There’s one round every corner. In other words it’s OK to shoot jays. The licence is there to help us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, Fellside said: So just choose one then - a red lister that is. There’s one round every corner. In other words it’s OK to shoot jays. The licence is there to help us. Very sensible. Woodcock every time for me if I was ever asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted January 24, 2022 Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 8 hours ago, Fellside said: So just choose one then - a red lister that is. There’s one round every corner. In other words it’s OK to shoot jays. The licence is there to help us. Provided you’re sure that species is in your area where you take the Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted January 24, 2022 Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) The rarer they are the harder to detect, and more they need protection. It is difficult to prove the absence of a secretive ground nesting bird such as woodcock. I’ve found them in pretty much every environment: woodland, pasture, marsh, moor, arable edges. Edited January 24, 2022 by WalkedUp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted January 24, 2022 Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 3 hours ago, Fisheruk said: Provided you’re sure that species is in your area where you take the Jay How can it be proven that there isn’t a red lister…..or hasn’t been recently…..or that one is setting up a territory? Our legal system presumes innocence until contrary proof is otherwise provided. Proof in this context is virtually impossible to establish. The suitably vague legal context of the GLs sometimes plays to the ‘paranoid android’ type. I’m not suggesting you are this ‘type’ fisheruk, please don’t take offence…..🙂However, the overarching purpose and intent of the GLs is more important than their minutia. P.S Agree with WalkedUp - the woodcock is a great example. There are of course many more red listers (sadly) which need our protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 24, 2022 Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 12 minutes ago, Fellside said: How can it be proven that there isn’t a red lister…..or hasn’t been recently…..or that one is setting up a territory? Our legal system presumes innocence until contrary proof is otherwise provided. Proof in this context is virtually impossible to establish. The suitably vague legal context of the GLs sometimes plays to the ‘paranoid android’ type. I’m not suggesting you are this ‘type’ fisheruk, please don’t take offence…..🙂However, the overarching purpose and intent of the GLs is more important than their minutia. P.S Agree with WalkedUp - the woodcock is a great example. There are of course many more red listers (sadly) which need our protection. This. If you want to shoot them then do so, if not then don’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted January 24, 2022 Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 5 minutes ago, Scully said: This. If you want to shoot them then do so, if not then don’t. Precisely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gas seal Posted January 24, 2022 Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 The man who shot the jay knows the law. The man who killed the jay didn’t . If the jay was killed on a commercial shoot the game keeper is responsible for giving authority to kill jays. BASC refers to a shooting industry employing many people. The man should have been told that he would be picking up and killing jays and he had authority to do so. The general license is only for people with authority to use. The license is very specific. For years the BASC refers to pigeon shooting as a (grey area). Now at last it’s black and white. Jays can be shot all day ,nests and eggs can be destroyed or shoot them on their nests. But I would make sure l have authority to kill the birds on the license. It’s to late when your told you were only supposed to be shooting pigeons. And be sure that the person giving you authority has the authority to do so. I’ve seen this happen many times. Now that the BASC have no grey areas they should just highlight( who can use this license ) . No one can use any of the licenses with out authority( for the bird to be killed). That’s the law. I would ask the man who asked the question about the jays to ask his shooting organisation to confirm this before he goes back to his shoot . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 24, 2022 Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 The OP was despatching a wounded bird. How is that going to get him in trouble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted January 24, 2022 Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 Some overthinking going on here. Just shoot them……!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted January 24, 2022 Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 7 hours ago, Fellside said: How can it be proven that there isn’t a red lister…..or hasn’t been recently…..or that one is setting up a territory? Our legal system presumes innocence until contrary proof is otherwise provided. Proof in this context is virtually impossible to establish. The suitably vague legal context of the GLs sometimes plays to the ‘paranoid android’ type. I’m not suggesting you are this ‘type’ fisheruk, please don’t take offence…..🙂However, the overarching purpose and intent of the GLs is more important than their minutia. P.S Agree with WalkedUp - the woodcock is a great example. There are of course many more red listers (sadly) which need our protection. I’m not taking offence, but you need to know the terms of the GL before you shoot any live quarry. Just look at the Red List and memorise something likely to be or have been in your area, then you’re home and dry. The last thing you want to say if confronted by anyone is that you are doing it for fly tying feathers. You need to be savvy and realise that those who disagree with shooting things will be trying to catch you out and will likely be recording you. Pick a bird, Woodcock if you like, and have it in your mind before you may be confronted. Then you shouldn’t have a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted January 24, 2022 Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 2 hours ago, Gas seal said: The man who shot the jay knows the law. The man who killed the jay didn’t . If the jay was killed on a commercial shoot the game keeper is responsible for giving authority to kill jays. BASC refers to a shooting industry employing many people. The man should have been told that he would be picking up and killing jays and he had authority to do so. I do understand your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted January 24, 2022 Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Fisheruk said: I’m not taking offence, but you need to know the terms of the GL before you shoot any live quarry. Just look at the Red List and memorise something likely to be or have been in your area, then you’re home and dry. The last thing you want to say if confronted by anyone is that you are doing it for fly tying feathers. You need to be savvy and realise that those who disagree with shooting things will be trying to catch you out and will likely be recording you. Pick a bird, Woodcock if you like, and have it in your mind before you may be confronted. Then you shouldn’t have a problem. You may not realise that a lot of people here on PW are very close to the GL side of things. Hence there is a healthy degree of legal confidence. There are some who imagine the GLs are some sort of complex legal trap. They definitely aren’t. It would be difficult to get arrested if you tried - for shooting a jay. The fact that jays are conditionally exempted from the 1981 Wildlife and Countryside Act, makes it virtually impossible for any case to be brought. As you rightly mention however, it is important to have ones ducks (or jays) lined up in a row, should a complaint be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gas seal Posted January 24, 2022 Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 The man asked if jays can be shot on a driven pheasant shoot. The only answer is yes if they have authority. No if they don’t. The first question always asked by the police will be have you got a gun license and have you got authority to kill the birds. Has anyone looked at the license to see who can use it . When it can be used. And were it can be used. This is the only reason why the license works. This was the first thing I looked for and noticed that it was for two years. The license is no trap it gives immunity from prosecution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 24, 2022 Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, Gas seal said: The man asked if jays can be shot on a driven pheasant shoot. The only answer is yes if they have authority. No if they don’t. The first question always asked by the police will be have you got a gun license and have you got authority to kill the birds. Has anyone looked at the license to see who can use it . When it can be used. And were it can be used. This is the only reason why the license works. This was the first thing I looked for and noticed that it was for two years. The license is no trap it gives immunity from prosecution. How often do the Police ask these questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted January 24, 2022 Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 14 minutes ago, Gas seal said: The man asked if jays can be shot on a driven pheasant shoot. The only answer is yes if they have authority. No if they don’t. The first question always asked by the police will be have you got a gun license and have you got authority to kill the birds. Has anyone looked at the license to see who can use it . When it can be used. And were it can be used. This is the only reason why the license works. This was the first thing I looked for and noticed that it was for two years. The license is no trap it gives immunity from prosecution. All good points Gas seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munzy Posted January 25, 2022 Report Share Posted January 25, 2022 On 20/01/2022 at 19:15, Dasher said: I watched a pair of Jays earlier this year working together flushing newly fledged birds including Dartford warblers and Yellow hammer from gorse bushes, they took turns siting on the top of the bush whilst the other did the flushing. In the past I wouldn't shoot them but I would now. You have to admit… there’s a certain poetry in shooters, many of whom spend the day in front of beaters flushing game from bushes, discussing how a Jay works in teams to flush birds from bushes?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted January 25, 2022 Report Share Posted January 25, 2022 11 minutes ago, Munzy said: You have to admit… there’s a certain poetry in shooters, many of whom spend the day in front of beaters flushing game from bushes, discussing how a Jay works in teams to flush birds from bushes?! Not really. We prey on sustainable common game birds, the jay prays upon vulnerable species in decline. Bit of a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munzy Posted January 25, 2022 Report Share Posted January 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Fellside said: Not really. We prey on sustainable common game birds, the jay prays upon vulnerable species in decline. Bit of a difference. Alright, I didn’t mean for anyone to overthink it. 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted January 25, 2022 Report Share Posted January 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Munzy said: Alright, I didn’t mean for anyone to overthink it. 🙄 Free speech - get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 25, 2022 Report Share Posted January 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Fellside said: Not really. We prey on sustainable common game birds, the jay prays upon vulnerable species in decline. Bit of a difference. Understand what Munzy is saying, though. Yep, right enough, there is a difference. The jays do it to survive, we don't need to prey on game birds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted January 25, 2022 Report Share Posted January 25, 2022 We (shooters) do not “prey” on anything. The species we shoot are quarry, not prey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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