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House alarm - HO guideline or Forse want?


ShootingEgg
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Yep, my alarm responds directly and within a few seconds to my phone anywhere in the world with internet and/ or 4g.

I can log into the cctv and see whether it is family checking on the house or anything else.

So far nothing else!

The IR glow from the cctv cameras tells everyone they are working and not fake together with the motion tracking cameras. Not cheap but worth it.

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The visibility of a house from the road or neighbours is also sometimes considered. My first visiting officer indicated if it weren't for the streetlamp immediately outside our house he'd have advised an alarm would be preferred as it was at that time behind and the ground floor lower than a hedge along the front boundary. The hedge was removed as one of my first solo retirement pastimes in combo with block paving the front so its wide open viewed now.

Edited by Dave-G
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28 minutes ago, Fisheruk said:

Yep, my alarm responds directly and within a few seconds to my phone anywhere in the world with internet and/ or 4g.

I can log into the cctv and see whether it is family checking on the house or anything else.

So far nothing else!

The IR glow from the cctv cameras tells everyone they are working and not fake together with the motion tracking cameras. Not cheap but worth it.

Are they really worth it? Landlord of local pub has a wealth of high quality alarms and cameras surrounding his premises and vehicles linked to his phone ( I’ve never seen such sharp images from cctv ) but it didn’t prevent two of his vehicles and an out shed being broken into and goods stolen. 
Our yard on a local industrial estate was broken into and three wagons broken into. They even managed to drive one to the gate but couldn’t get the gate open from the inside. We gained some cutting gear which they left as they fled, but they caused thousands of pounds worth of damage. 
On the same night The plant hire company next door had an artic trailer stolen, which was never recovered, so they obviously brought a unit with them! 
All yards and buildings, plus vehicles were alarmed and some were still active when the police turned up over 30 minutes later. 
Alarms may work as a deterrent, but once criminals commit, they’re not really effective. 

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8 minutes ago, Scully said:

Are they really worth it? Landlord of local pub has a wealth of high quality alarms and cameras surrounding his premises and vehicles linked to his phone ( I’ve never seen such sharp images from cctv ) but it didn’t prevent two of his vehicles and an out shed being broken into and goods stolen. 
Our yard on a local industrial estate was broken into and three wagons broken into. They even managed to drive one to the gate but couldn’t get the gate open from the inside. We gained some cutting gear which they left as they fled, but they caused thousands of pounds worth of damage. 
On the same night The plant hire company next door had an artic trailer stolen, which was never recovered, so they obviously brought a unit with them! 
All yards and buildings, plus vehicles were alarmed and some were still active when the police turned up over 30 minutes later. 
Alarms may work as a deterrent, but once criminals commit, they’re not really effective. 

Quite agree, but as always if the licensing authority ask for an alarm to be fitted, SGC holders will have very little choice but to comply!  :rolleyes:

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7 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Quite agree, but as always if the licensing authority ask for an alarm to be fitted, SGC holders will have very little choice but to comply!  :rolleyes:

Indeed.  The merits of an alarm versus CCTV, versus no alarm are all a bit moot, if that's what your FEO insists on. After all, a modern 'smart' wireless alarm will cost you say, £300 from Amazon, and a couple of hours of DIY install.  Afterwards, providing there is an internet connection, it will let you know if it's triggered irrespective of where you are in the world.  £300 spent on a lawyer to challenge your FEO that you need an alarm won't get you far.

So most owners just fit an alarm, regardless of whether CCTV/dog/home defence legalisation in the UK/whatever might be a better solution.

I'm fitting one, and wiring the place up for CCTV.  I'm hoping this is the 'forever' home, so it's not much in the grand scheme of things.

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26 minutes ago, Scully said:

Like I said, I have no objection to fitting an alarm, I just don’t think they’re that effective. 

I think in the modern age they aren't a deterrent. I'd agree.
I don't think anyone is going to come running or dial 999.

But, what modern systems with cameras also give you is the ability to see real time as to whether it's genuine, but more importantly a chance to identify the culprits for a successful prosecution. I don't think it will help prevent or stop a crime in action, but any chance to catch them especially if they manage to steal firearms is worth it.

 

Every system has a purpose. But, you also need to buy what you need for your purpose, and not because an FEO insists so you buy a cheap system. The feeling of being violated or having your safety compromised is the worst feeling ever after a dwelling break..... 😞 So if an active IR cam stops just 1 attempt then it may be worth it.

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I was told by the FEO, that they prefer them to be monitored remotely by the owner, especially if CCTV is also used, and told in the event of an alarm activation with confirmed CCTV of an intruder, to dial 999 and tell the operator you have confirmed an intruder with an alarm and CCTV and that firearms are on the premises and armed response would be dispatched.

Just that alone has got to be worth it.

Edited by Newbie to this
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The bloke who owns the yard where we kept our wagon phoned police HQ when nothing seemed to be forthcoming about the break ins, and asked how they were getting on. He was told no one had been interviewed in relation to the break in, and asked why, when one had clearly been seen on cctv. He was told they couldn’t use that footage as it would infringe their ethnic rights.
Whether this is true or not I have no idea, but he reckons that’s what he was told.

It also identifies a certain section of our society as we suspected ( it following closely on the heels of Fair week ) and why no one was ever caught. 🙂

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6 minutes ago, Scully said:

He was told they couldn’t use that footage as it would infringe their ethnic rights.
Whether this is true or not I have no idea, but he reckons that’s what he was told.

🙂

Utter rot. Not saying that he's got it wrong, but if that's what he was told then the officer is speaking untruth. There are no such things as ethnic rights. There are freedoms, which we all have, and there is recognition in the law that you may not indirectly persecute someone for a difference. There is no exemption from the law on grounds of ethnicity. 

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2 hours ago, ehb102 said:

Utter rot. Not saying that he's got it wrong, but if that's what he was told then the officer is speaking untruth. There are no such things as ethnic rights. There are freedoms, which we all have, and there is recognition in the law that you may not indirectly persecute someone for a difference. There is no exemption from the law on grounds of ethnicity. 

Really? Maybe just a fear of being branded as prejudiced/racist then?
You may well be right, but Excise Duty representatives no longer have a presence at the Fair. We ( locals ) were often stopped and dipped during the run up and throughout the Fair, but it doesn’t happen now. When one Ministry representative arrived at a mates farm on the outskirts of town, specifically for that purpose, he asked why it was no longer done at the Fair, and he was given the same reply. 🤷‍♂️

I even had a knock on the door one day during Fair week, while I was sitting eating lunch, and asked if the vehicle outside was mine. I said yes and just told him to get on with it and handed him the keys, while I finished my lunch. 🙂  

 

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Just now, Scully said:

Really? Maybe just a fear of being branded as prejudiced/racist then?
You may well be right, but Excise Duty representatives no longer have a presence at the Fair. We ( locals ) were often stopped and dipped during the run up and throughout the Fair, but it doesn’t happen now. When one Ministry representative arrived at a mates farm on the outskirts of town, specifically for that purpose, he asked why it was no longer done at the Fair, and he was given the same reply. 🤷‍♂️

I even had a knock on the door one day during Fair week, while I was sitting eating lunch, and asked if the vehicle outside was mine. I said yes and just told him to get on with it and handed him the keys, while I finished my lunch. 🙂  

 

Yes. Fear of being called names stops people doing the right thing. I have no time for it. 

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19 hours ago, Scully said:

Like I said, I have no objection to fitting an alarm, I just don’t think they’re that effective. 

OK I have been retired for some time, BUT, I do not believe that Billy Burgler has changed that much over the years. Your examples given,  refer to premises where high value items are kept and by all accounts NOT too difficult to remove, regardless of alarms or CCTV.  In the main, where firearms storage is concerned, we are talking of domestic properties. In 30 years of frontline Policing, I only went to 3 domestic premises where an alarm was installed and they suffered a burglary. I can clearly remember each one. Two were targeted premises where large amounts of cash and jewelry were involved (both involved the window cleaner), the third was a house without a dummy bell box on the rear of the premises. As soon as the burglars activated the alarm (from the inside), they fled. BUT, they still had cash and jewelry from upstairs, in their pockets. That house had no dummy rear bell box and a window onto a flat roof at the rear, which the alarm did not cover. Moral of story, Burglars do NOT like alarms and will try a house that does not have one (they will not need to look far  !), should they gain access and the alarm is activated, they are not going to wait around and see if someone bothers to attend  !  So, based on that, I believe that a house alarm is very effective.  Of course there is ALWAYS the exception, as G.D. found out  !

Edited by Westley
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1 hour ago, Westley said:

OK I have been retired for some time, BUT, I do not believe that Billy Burgler has changed that much over the years. Your examples given,  refer to premises where high value items are kept and by all accounts NOT too difficult to remove, regardless of alarms or CCTV.  In the main, where firearms storage is concerned, we are talking of domestic properties. In 30 years of frontline Policing, I only went to 3 domestic premises where an alarm was installed and they suffered a burglary. I can clearly remember each one. Two were targeted premises where large amounts of cash and jewelry were involved (both involved the window cleaner), the third was a house without a dummy bell box on the rear of the premises. As soon as the burglars activated the alarm (from the inside), they fled. BUT, they still had cash and jewelry from upstairs, in their pockets. That house had no dummy rear bell box and a window onto a flat roof at the rear, which the alarm did not cover. Moral of story, Burglars do NOT like alarms and will try a house that does not have one (they will not need to look far  !), should they gain access and the alarm is activated, they are not going to wait around and see if someone bothers to attend  !  So, based on that, I believe that a house alarm is very effective.  Of course there is ALWAYS the exception, as G.D. found out  !

I’m only going on experience, as are you, and like I’ve said, I don’t mind fitting one, but it won’t be an expensive one. In my experience they just aren’t worth it. 

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When i renewed my FAC & SGC in 2020, licensing were getting a bit squeaky about the amount of rifles & shotguns i had so i installed an alarm/CCTV system-which made them happy. My gun number stepped up because i was given three shotguns by a colleague in 2019.

My old FEO said they went by local crime statistics and home security with the amount of guns you can have in a house. 

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51 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’m only going on experience, as are you, and like I’ve said, I don’t mind fitting one, but it won’t be an expensive one. In my experience they just aren’t worth it. 

I do believe that it is worth a bit more for a system that does NOT rely upon someone activating the alarm from the inside. My alarm covers the perimeter of the premises, and is linked to my mobile, as are the cameras. I would be in a position to alert the force control room of an actual break in and not just Percy Pigeon having a bad flying day.

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2 hours ago, Westley said:

I do believe that it is worth a bit more for a system that does NOT rely upon someone activating the alarm from the inside. My alarm covers the perimeter of the premises, and is linked to my mobile, as are the cameras. I would be in a position to alert the force control room of an actual break in and not just Percy Pigeon having a bad flying day.

And how long before the police respond and actually get there? 🙂
 

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10 hours ago, Scully said:

And how long before the police respond and actually get there? 🙂
 

A confirmed break in progress is always a grade 1 immediate deployment, and they would always send local first in tandem with specialist teams. A massive difference between confirmed break, and just an alarm sounding.

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17 hours ago, Scully said:

And how long before the police respond and actually get there? 🙂
 

Whilst on Holiday we had a ‘confirmed’ break in via our Arlo cameras instant notification.

Had to call my parents to call 999 as we were in France at the time.

From time of my mother calling to them six of them arriving and scaling our locked gates/fence was only six mins. 

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