Lampwick Posted January 26, 2022 Report Share Posted January 26, 2022 legally a tricky one I presume? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/maida-vale-metropolitan-police-london-renault-change-org-b2000972.html?amp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Townie Posted January 26, 2022 Report Share Posted January 26, 2022 My completely uninformed take on this: someone was killed and police are required to establish if a criminal act led to this. They arrested him because they know he killed the knifeman, it gives the accused additional rights and they can't yet say that no criminal act took place. Same thing happened to the householder who killed a burglar in self defence in SE London a couple of years ago and charges were dropped (if memory serves). Having said that, if matters are as they appear to be on the face of it, if charges aren't dropped it would be morally wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka54 Posted January 26, 2022 Report Share Posted January 26, 2022 Well, In the eyes of the law the facts of the incident are what count. Although the driver was trying to stop the attack of this woman, however well intentioned, the fact is he used his vehicle to intentionally hit another person and in doing so, caused a fatality. In my honest opinion, he was trying to stop the attack rather than intentionally kill, so 1st degree murder should be off the cards and mitigating circumstances should be took into account, much as they were with the London bridge incident involving two members of the public attacking a knife wielding assailant, which, should set a precedence along with general public opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted January 26, 2022 Report Share Posted January 26, 2022 11 minutes ago, Townie said: My completely uninformed take on this: someone was killed and police are required to establish if a criminal act led to this. They arrested him because they know he killed the knifeman, it gives the accused additional rights and they can't yet say that no criminal act took place. Same thing happened to the householder who killed a burglar in self defence in SE London a couple of years ago and charges were dropped (if memory serves). Having said that, if matters are as they appear to be on the face of it, if charges aren't dropped it would be morally wrong. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted January 26, 2022 Report Share Posted January 26, 2022 Just another reason for people to just walk on by when they see a violent or sexual crime being committed. The message is call the police , and let them deal with it , thats their job, but thats usually too late to stop the crime. Im not knocking the police, but when we hear of these incidents of people either defending themselves or others, getting arrested , and looking at murder convictions and years behind bars, just for wanting to help ? It makes you wonder if you should just put your head down , walk on and ignore the screams.....Which is often what happens. Is this the society we want, where the law, being inadequate , fears victim resistance more than the actual crime being committed? In a country where its illegal to possess a weapon (any weapon ) to defend your own home against violent invasion, I think the answer is clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted January 26, 2022 Report Share Posted January 26, 2022 If the police had done their job this could have been avoided, give the man a medal I say at least he tried to do something abot it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted January 26, 2022 Report Share Posted January 26, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tonka54 said: In my honest opinion, he was trying to stop the attack rather than intentionally kill, so 1st degree murder should be off the cards and mitigating circumstances should be took into account, much as they were with the London bridge incident involving two members of the public attacking a knife wielding assailant, which, should set a precedence along with general public opinion. No such thing in UK as "1st degree murder". Just an intention to unlawfully kill or inflict serious bodily injury from which death results". My own thought is that if the person thought that what they were doing was lawful to protect the person being stabbed then the charge will fail. If OTOH the knifeman was at the time running away from the victim then it will very possiblyl be murder. But remember the Colston statue? Where the defendants were acquitted? That's why we have juries and this and Colston are inextricably linked. Jury nullification is a very very precious part of our law. Edited January 26, 2022 by enfieldspares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted January 26, 2022 Report Share Posted January 26, 2022 2 hours ago, Rewulf said: Just another reason for people to just walk on by when they see a violent or sexual crime being committed. The message is call the police , and let them deal with it , thats their job, but thats usually too late to stop the crime. Im not knocking the police, but when we hear of these incidents of people either defending themselves or others, getting arrested , and looking at murder convictions and years behind bars, just for wanting to help ? It makes you wonder if you should just put your head down , walk on and ignore the screams.....Which is often what happens. Is this the society we want, where the law, being inadequate , fears victim resistance more than the actual crime being committed? In a country where its illegal to possess a weapon (any weapon ) to defend your own home against violent invasion, I think the answer is clear. Like you say how to stop people helping to stop a serious crime when seconds matter!! He very probably saved the lives of others and absolutely did the right thing, if the deceased had been shooting a gun at the time instead of having a knife would he still have been charged? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted January 26, 2022 Report Share Posted January 26, 2022 They had no choice but to arrest to establish the actual facts. this must run it's course. As an aside I am aware that freedoms are only ever removed, hence a private car being classed as a public space and a limit on knife sizes etc. Neither of which are effective to any degree in the prevention of anything other than the personal freedoms of millions? That seems to be the way here as there is no Constitution to balance it? This scenario will unfold along the same lines simply because they can continue unchecked not caring about the mentioned scenario where some are unwilling to risk arrest by being involved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted January 26, 2022 Report Share Posted January 26, 2022 The police have to investigate, if it was to stop a knife attack he should get a medal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 On 26/01/2022 at 18:31, old man said: hence a private car being classed as a public space It's not a public space and never has been . If the car is in a public space it can be searched/stopped/examined etc where grounds (if necessary) and legislation exist. If its not in a public space (like in your garage or on the drive)it can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted February 2, 2022 Report Share Posted February 2, 2022 On 31/01/2022 at 13:10, GingerCat said: It's not a public space and never has been . If the car is in a public space it can be searched/stopped/examined etc where grounds (if necessary) and legislation exist. If its not in a public space (like in your garage or on the drive)it can't. Thanks for the clarification GC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billytheghillie Posted February 2, 2022 Report Share Posted February 2, 2022 Apparently hes a free man, and no charges against him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted February 2, 2022 Report Share Posted February 2, 2022 34 minutes ago, billytheghillie said: Apparently hes a free man, and no charges against him. Correct. He has had all charges dropped and was allowed to go free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 3, 2022 Report Share Posted February 3, 2022 15 hours ago, ShootingEgg said: Correct. He has had all charges dropped and was allowed to go free Good, and decently fast decision on it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 4, 2022 Report Share Posted February 4, 2022 More common sense rulings. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10476993/Farmer-used-forklift-tractor-car-parked-land-CLEARED.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted February 4, 2022 Report Share Posted February 4, 2022 33 minutes ago, Rewulf said: More common sense rulings. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10476993/Farmer-used-forklift-tractor-car-parked-land-CLEARED.html Crikey, not like our system is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 4, 2022 Report Share Posted February 4, 2022 14 minutes ago, old man said: Crikey, not like our system is it? No , that one did surprise me , but good on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel b3 Posted February 4, 2022 Report Share Posted February 4, 2022 The right result , and one that we might see more and more as we move into the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 On 02/02/2022 at 20:04, ShootingEgg said: Correct. He has had all charges dropped and was allowed to go free Some common sense, deserves a medal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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