DUNKS Posted February 4, 2022 Report Share Posted February 4, 2022 Any of you guys know how far back three inch 12g black powder cartridges were used please? I have a set of very old Damascus 12g barrels which I have only just realized have three inch chambers. OK they could have been altered from new but I have a feeling that they are original. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 4, 2022 Report Share Posted February 4, 2022 24 minutes ago, DUNKS said: Any of you guys know how far back three inch 12g black powder cartridges were used please? I have a set of very old Damascus 12g barrels which I have only just realized have three inch chambers. OK they could have been altered from new but I have a feeling that they are original. Thanks. Your "very old" suggests that you'd have trouble finding out as I think I'm right in saying that the reproof marks did not come in until 1925 so hopefully your gut feeling will be correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted February 4, 2022 Report Share Posted February 4, 2022 51 minutes ago, DUNKS said: Any of you guys know how far back three inch 12g black powder cartridges were used please? Other than that 3" was in use in/before 1904 - I don't know. the 1904 date comes from an advert for 12 bore 3" ammunition dated 1904. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNKS Posted February 4, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2022 Thanks guys. The gun is probably turn of the century ish so looks as if the chambers could be original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushandpull Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 My Jefffery (hammer damascus) is engraved under the barrels : 3" Case 4 Drams 1 1/2 oz. Obviously original but I don't know the date. It's a quality gun with 32" barrels and original sling eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNKS Posted February 5, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Pushandpull said: My Jefffery (hammer damascus) is engraved under the barrels : 3" Case 4 Drams 1 1/2 oz. Obviously original but I don't know the date. It's a quality gun with 32" barrels and original sling eyes. Thanks. That's a heck of a load in an old gun "109 grains". I shoot 70grains out of mine to be safe and I can break all the clays at the shooting ground I use. Would perhaps need a drop more for game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushandpull Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 I had a very quick look through the book case. Henry Sharp ("Practical Wildfowling", 1895) writes of both paper case 3" guns - he mentions the Tolley Altro by name - and the Evans Special Kynoch gun for brass cases, with loads of 4 drams/1 1/2oz or 4 1/2 drams/1 5/8oz. Smokeless powders were just coming in at that time and are discussed. Payne-Gallwey, writing a few years earlier, only talks of 1 1/4 oz loads for 12s but he says little as he was obsessed by puntguns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNKS Posted February 5, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 Thanks. Explains why my barrels are so thick walled. I will stick to 70 gr thanks, Do you shoot your Jeffery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 Just wondering if those older guns were in fact `Pigeon Guns` used for the live pigeon competitions which generally used heavier guns and possibly with longer chambers. Just a thought. I`m sure others more in the know could advise on this. OB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNKS Posted February 5, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, Old Boggy said: Just wondering if those older guns were in fact `Pigeon Guns` used for the live pigeon competitions which generally used heavier guns and possibly with longer chambers. Just a thought. I`m sure others more in the know could advise on this. OB Good question, I too have wondered this. I have a book with live pigeon shooting in it "somewhere" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushandpull Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 DUNKS - I use all my guns. The Jeffery runs on 1 1/4 oz bismuth these days. It was re-proved at 850 bar a while ago. Old Boggy - I think not. These guns were advertised as long case guns for shore shooting. Live pigeon guns of this era were I believe heavy but 2 3/4" chambered as far as I know. Back in the day rules were no doubt slacker : in my youth I once owned an 8 bore ML gun for pigeons (no ram rod) which weighed just 7 1/2 lbs. It threw an excellent pattern with 1 1/2 oz or thereabout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 I have a Charles Lancaster for 1876 with 3” chambered Damascus barrels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushandpull Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 1876 must be pretty early for a 3" - nice. My gun is 1891 or later. At that time of course the gun trade was very competitive, with the makers all looking for an edge and I guess being early to the market place with such an advance was pretty important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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