Car flipped by farmer. Farmer not guilty

[Walker570]

5 hours ago, mel b3 said:

I read somewhere that this was a route already well travelled by this particular farmer . He'd called the police on several previous occasions,  but as is quite normal in these cases , he got zero response from the police( not knocking the police , they can't be everywhere at once) . In this instance , he approached the guy that was stopping him from working , and got assaulted.   The farmer felt that he had no other choice than to( defend) deal with the issue himself.

Looking to the future , I can see many more of these types of incidents.  As the police become less able ( for many many reasons) to protect the population , it will fail to the population to protect itself . Laws will be changed , or as in this case , older laws will be brought back into play . 

As we seem to edge closer and closer to a lawless society , I can only assume that society will become the new law .  

Mel, in my day we tried very hard to give the impression we would be everywhere at any time. On my last tour on a relatively quiet Division opposite side of Brum to you, we put out five Divisional cars and two Traffic cars had a dog van covering the area as well. we prowled the area looking for customers and we prided ourselves in arriving in a puff of smoke within minutes of a person calling.

Add to this a Sergeant and an Inspector who would individually have a drive around during the night and back us up.

It was not unknown for our Chief Super to suddenly appear at an accident/incident scene and willing sort out traffic but always there to help.

Recently I witnessed an injured person lie on the centre reservation for over an hour and half before any assistance arrived and then it was just one police officer the ambulance had not arrived.

HOW THINGS CHANGE IN THIRTY YEARS.

[ordnance]

6 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

No i asked a simple question, if you can't or won't answer it just say that.  Its obviously to anyone that watched the video what happened, the red mist descended and he decided to take the law into his own hands so he was guilty IMO. If some are happy with that and so convinced he was right fine, next time someone blocks their drive with a car try doing similar and see how they get on. 

26 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Don't make me laugh. It would have been a civvy or a recorded message answering the phone anyway.

Sounds like you are living in a third world country with third world police, I can only go by how the police respond in this part of the UK.

Edited February 6, 2022 by ordnance

[JDog]

4 minutes ago, ordnance said:

No i asked a simple question, if you can't or won't answer it just say that.  Its obviously to anyone that watched the video what happened, the red mist descended and he decided to take the law into his own hands so he was guilty IMO. If some are happy with that fine, next time someone blocks their drive with a car try doing similar and see how they get on. 

Sounds like you are living in a third world country with third world police, I can only go by how the police respond in this part of the UK.

Ordnance, I agree with you he was guilty of wrecking that car.

[mel b3]

39 minutes ago, ordnance said:

 

Sounds like you are living in a third world country with third world police, I can only go by how the police respond in this part of the UK.

I would guess that this is pretty typical in most parts of the UK now . I live in a pretty typical urban area , and my nearest manned police station is around seven miles away(and theirs talk of it closing) . If you walk into the station ( I do via work from time to time) , you have to stand in line and wait,  and then you'll be attended to by civilian staff. 

I have a friend that is a serving police officer. For a while he was doing emergency response (999 calls) . The emergency response service was regularly without any officers to attend calls , for between one hour , and three hours.  That's not much use when someone is punching you in the face.

The problem isn't with police officers , the problem is the lack of police officers , and societal changes . Fourty years ago , just the threat of calling the police , or the chance of a police officer coming along , would stop a lot of crime . Society has changed massively,  so criminals know that the likelihood hood of a police officer turning up , is pretty low at best .

A couple of weeks ago , my police mate was put on to 14 hours shifts , on his days off . He had no choice in the matter , it was the only way that his area of policing could be covered , and that was for no other reason than the lack of police officers.

[mel b3]

1 hour ago, Walker570 said:

Mel, in my day we tried very hard to give the impression we would be everywhere at any time. On my last tour on a relatively quiet Division opposite side of Brum to you, we put out five Divisional cars and two Traffic cars had a dog van covering the area as well. we prowled the area looking for customers and we prided ourselves in arriving in a puff of smoke within minutes of a person calling.

Add to this a Sergeant and an Inspector who would individually have a drive around during the night and back us up.

It was not unknown for our Chief Super to suddenly appear at an accident/incident scene and willing sort out traffic but always there to help.

Recently I witnessed an injured person lie on the centre reservation for over an hour and half before any assistance arrived and then it was just one police officer the ambulance had not arrived.

HOW THINGS CHANGE IN THIRTY YEARS.

The whole of society is changing nev , and not always for the better . We can't keep blaming the police , or politicians.  We have to looks at ourselves,  and see how our behaviour as a society is changing. 

God I sound like my old man 😄.

[39TDS]

As said above the threat of the police turning up and the fear of a custodial sentence was enough to stop the crime happening in the first place.

I believe the change in society is in no small part due to the fact people have realised neither of the above are very likely to happen.

[islandgun]

My concern [and probably the farmers] would be fear of reprisals

[Walker570]

20 minutes ago, islandgun said:

My concern [and probably the farmers] would be fear of reprisals

AND no response from a useless police force.

2 hours ago, ordnance said:

No i asked a simple question, if you can't or won't answer it just say that.  Its obviously to anyone that watched the video what happened, the red mist descended and he decided to take the law into his own hands so he was guilty IMO. If some are happy with that and so convinced he was right fine, next time someone blocks their drive with a car try doing similar and see how they get on. 

Sounds like you are living in a third world country with third world police, I can only go by how the police respond in this part of the UK.

If they turn out within at least hours, should you report a burglary or a theft along with scenes of crime officers etc etc., in your area then you must be living in cloud cookoo land because that does not happen these days but back in the 60s and 70s and even into the 80s for a while certainly would be the case.

[Walker570]

The problem is that in the last 35 years young folks have become used to the 'service' if you could call it that and assume this is normal.  

[ordnance]

1 hour ago, Walker570 said:

AND no response from a useless police force.

If they turn out within at least hours, should you report a burglary or a theft along with scenes of crime officers etc etc., in your area then you must be living in cloud cookoo land because that does not happen these days but back in the 60s and 70s and even into the 80s for a while certainly would be the case.

Why would he have being reporting a burglary or a theft. If it happened as he said he would have being reporting, trespass, assault, and the persons that carried out the assault were blocking his exit and threatening him. You are trying to tell me the police would say we will call but it will be in a day or two, Yeah.

Its obvious what happened he lost the rag and decided he would sort it, for example he could have pushed the car out of the way without much damage he didn't need to put it on its roof. I can see why some people are glad he got off and the thugs got what was coming, that does not make him not guilty. 

Edited February 6, 2022 by ordnance

[Walker570]

The court said he was not guilty. Twelve men good and true. Argue with them.

[ordnance]

1 hour ago, Walker570 said:

The court said he was not guilty. Twelve men good and true. Argue with them.

I know, that's why I said IMO.

[mel b3]

7 minutes ago, ordnance said:

I know, that's why I said IMO.

Purely for my own curiosity ordnance.  What would you have done in the farmers situation ?.

From previous experience,  you knew that the police wouldn't or couldn't attend , the guy refused to move his car out of your way so that you could get to your vital work  , and then the guy punched you in the face several times .

How would you have handled the situation ?.

Please don't take my question as any kind of dig at you mate , as it really isnt 👍.

[Mice!]

I'm often left wondering about threads like this when people say the police won't turn up, I can understand the police can't be everywhere,  especially out in the sticks.

But we're in a rental at the moment on a busy crossroads,  the police and Ambulance service fly past a few times each day so they're going somewhere?

I've no idea what they're going to RTA maybe, maybe we're lucky there is a police station still nearby?

 

[ordnance]

44 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

Purely for my own curiosity ordnance.  What would you have done in the farmers situation ?.

From previous experience,  you knew that the police wouldn't or couldn't attend , the guy refused to move his car out of your way so that you could get to your vital work  , and then the guy punched you in the face several times .

How would you have handled the situation ?.

Please don't take my question as any kind of dig at you mate , as it really isnt 👍.

The is a question over the sequence of events regarding the punch, he was trespassing on private property so ringing the police would be the sensible thing to do whether they came or not. I don't know how i would have handled it possibly the same way as the farmer did, that is not saying it would be the sensible smart or legal way to do it. If he had just pushed the car out of the way with minimal damage he might not have ended up in court with the charges he did. 

Edited February 6, 2022 by ordnance

[Mungler]

8 minutes ago, ordnance said:

The is a question over the sequence of events regarding the punch, he was trespassing on private property so ringing the police would be the sensible thing to do whether they came or not. I don't know how i would have handled it possibly the same way as the farmer did, that is not saying it would be the sensible smart or legal way to do it. If he had just pushed the car out of the way with minimal damage he might not have ended up in court with the charges he did. 

The agreed evidence at the Court was that the police were an hour away.

[mel b3]

13 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I'm often left wondering about threads like this when people say the police won't turn up, I can understand the police can't be everywhere,  especially out in the sticks.

But we're in a rental at the moment on a busy crossroads,  the police and Ambulance service fly past a few times each day so they're going somewhere?

I've no idea what they're going to RTA maybe, maybe we're lucky there is a police station still nearby?

 

The problem isn't that the police won't come , it's that they can't come , because their just isn't enough of them.

As I said in one of my earlier posts . I have a friend that's a serving police officer , when he worked in emergency response , their would often be several hours , when their was no officers at all to deal with 999 calls for several hours . If an emergency response officers is dealing with a street robbery , and gets a call to a extremely violent attack in progress , then he'd leave the street robbery,  and head to the violent attack , but , if he was dealing with a violent attack,  he wouldn't leave it for a farmer with a fat lip. 

When I was a kid , we had two police houses within shouting distance , and three permanently manned police stations within walking distance , but the nearest station is about six miles away now , and chronically short staffed , and on the verge of closing.

If you add that to the general rise in crime and thuggery that we all see every day( despite the manipulated statistics) , then you end up with a society that will eventually have no choice but to defend itself .

Twenty years ago , my late wifes car got broken into on the drive . The break in was reported , two police officers turned up to take statements,  then a soco turned up and took finger prints . Eventually,  someone was arrested and charged. Can you imagine what response you'd get from the police these days to a car break in.

 

[ordnance]

9 minutes ago, Mungler said:

The agreed evidence at the Court was that the police were an hour away.

A hour, some on here would have you think the police wouldn't bother or it would take them a couple of days. 

 

[mel b3]

24 minutes ago, ordnance said:

The is a question over the sequence of events, he was trespassing on private property so ringing the police would be the sensible thing to do whether they came or not. I don't know how i would have handled it possibly the same way as the farmer did, that is not saying it would be the sensible smart or legal way to do it. If he had just pushed the car out of the way with minimal damage he might not have ended up in court with the charges he did. 

Thankyou for taking the time to reply mate. Mungler pretty much covered it . The farmer took the only course of action that was realistically open to him . The one hour police response time was best case scenario , the reality is that they probably wouldn't turn up at all , as they had other priorities. 

I can completely see why you say the farmer was angry , but who amongst us wouldn't be angry in his situation ?.

[ordnance]

11 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

Thankyou for taking the time to reply mate. Mungler pretty much covered it . The farmer took the only course of action that was realistically open to him . The one hour police response time was best case scenario , the reality is that they probably wouldn't turn up at all , as they had other priorities. 

I can completely see why you say the farmer was angry , but who amongst us wouldn't be angry in his situation ?.

I could go along with that if he had pushed the car out of the way, he deliberately destroyed the car. If he has a firearms certificate found guilty or not you can be sure the police will be questioning his temperament and suitability to have one.  

[Mice!]

1 minute ago, ordnance said:

If he has a firearms certificate found guilty or not you can be sure the police will be questioning his temperament and suitability to have one

Folk on here say this all the time,  if someone was punching me I wouldn't be thinking I'd best not do anything because of my cert.

31 minutes ago, ordnance said:

hour, some on here would have you think the police wouldn't bother or it would take them a couple of days

But would they show for an assault? Like Mel says, other things take priority. 

35 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

The problem isn't that the police won't come , it's that they can't come , because their just isn't enough of them

That's why I wonder what the coppers going past ours are going to? But I haven't heard any today funnily enough. 

I asked one of the lads I play rugby with about guys doing drug deals in the tesco car park, clear as day driving in, windows down, money and drugs change hands then both cars leave, he said you'd get a crime number but don't expect anything to be done. 

[mel b3]

9 minutes ago, ordnance said:

I could go along with that if he had pushed the car out of the way, he deliberately destroyed the car. If he has a firearms certificate found guilty or not you can be sure the police will be questioning his temperament and suitability to have one.  

I can definitely see your point , but I'd guess that by the time the situation had deteriorated enough to be using a forklift truck , the niceties of load handling were long gone , and the fastest lifting technique was chosen . 

Fac is another good question,  as the farmer was found not guilty of any crime , and was just defending himself , his family , and his property. 

[ordnance]

Quote

But would they show for an assault? Like Mel says, other things take priority. 

They would here, maybe the police do things differently in the rest of the UK. 

[ordnance]

Quote

Fac is another good question,  as the farmer was found not guilty of any crime , and was just defending himself , his family , and his property. 

That's not the way it works, they could revoke it tomorrow after taking a view on the incident and his temperament and suitability to have one.  If he wanted it back he would have to go to court at his cost and appeal the police decision, good luck getting a judge to go against the polices decision to revoke a firearms Cert. 

[AULD YIN]

1 hour ago, ordnance said:

A hour, some on here would have you think the police wouldn't bother or it would take them a couple of days. 

 

Please read this ,

Lamara Bell, 25, was badly hurt and her boyfriend John Yuill, 28, was killed when their Renault Clio went off the M9 near Stirling on Sunday morning.

Police Scotland's Bilston Glen control room in Midlothian received a report on Sunday morning that a car had left the motorway.

But the force failed to follow the call up and and Lamara lay beside John’s body until Wednesday, when a local farmer found the wrecked Clio in a ditch by the side of the road near to junction nine.

 

Scottish police are fined £100,000 for failing woman, 25, who died after waiting THREE DAYS for help in wreckage of her crashed car

Family of M9 crash victim Lamara Bell to get £1million payout ...

Edited February 6, 2022 by AULD YIN
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