Shooting Times

[Scully]

I stopped buying this on a regular basis years ago, but sometimes browse the front cover while waiting in the local PO, and bought the current issue. 
There are some interesting and thought provoking articles in this issue, from ‘eating more game to fight climate change’, big bag shoots, trophy hunting, and an article on shooting Woodcock with steel, namely Lyalvales’ 2&1/2 inch load. 
There is a claim within this article which states UK shooters have around five years before the manufacture, sale and use of lead shot is banned by law. No mention of trap shooters, whom I was led to believe were unaffected by the ‘voluntary phase out’?
Time will tell no doubt. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Scully
Grammar

[dipper]

Talking of shooting times I have all the shooting times from the 70s a pile of over 4feet. My mate has all from the 60s.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

14 minutes ago, dipper said:

Talking of shooting times I have all the shooting times from the 70s a pile of over 4feet. My mate has all from the 60s.

They do make wonderful extra insulation!

[islandgun]

34 minutes ago, Scully said:

I stopped buying this on a regular basis years ago, but sometimes browse the front cover while waiting in the local PO, and bought the current issue. 
There are some interesting and thought provoking articles in this issue, from ‘eating more game to fight climate change’, big bag shoots, trophy hunting, and an article on shooting Woodcock with steel, namely Lyalvales’ 2&1/2 inch load. 
There is a claim within this article which states UK shooters have around five years before the manufacture, sale and use of lead shot is banned by law. No mention of trap shooters, whom I was led to believe were unaffected by the ‘voluntary phase out’?
Time will tell no doubt. 

Not having shot "at" clays for 40yrs, Im wondering why you dont use steel shot, I understand most modern guns can handle it, you get more shot to the oz and faster......... suppose a risk of ricochet ?

[London Best]

46 minutes ago, dipper said:

Talking of shooting times I have all the shooting times from the 70s a pile of over 4feet. My mate has all from the 60s.

I had every Shooting Times for fifteen years, but stopped taking it in 1976.

[dipper]

My first shooting times were from 1958 still at school then cost 9p old money

[TIGHTCHOKE]

27 minutes ago, islandgun said:

Not having shot "at" clays for 40yrs, Im wondering why you dont use steel shot, I understand most modern guns can handle it, you get more shot to the oz and faster......... suppose a risk of ricochet ?

That is a problem. Many grounds do not like steel.

[London Best]

9 minutes ago, dipper said:

My first shooting times were from 1958 still at school then cost 9p old money

Yes, they had gone up to one shilling when I first bought them in 1961. 
That was 200 .177 pellets then.

[Scully]

1 hour ago, islandgun said:

Not having shot "at" clays for 40yrs, Im wondering why you dont use steel shot, I understand most modern guns can handle it, you get more shot to the oz and faster......... suppose a risk of ricochet ?

Supposedly, although the wearing of purposely designed glasses is recommended if not compulsory at many grounds, so I’m not too sure of the thinking behind that claim. 

[rbrowning2]

3 hours ago, Scully said:
There is a claim within this article which states UK shooters have around five years before the manufacture, sale and use of lead shot is banned by law. No mention of trap shooters, whom I was led to believe were unaffected by the ‘voluntary phase out’?
Time will tell no doubt. 

just more of the relentless propaganda to make guns try steel shot, nobody yet knows how long if ever before a ban on lead shot, how can they ban the manufacture of lead shot or lead shot cartridges or their sale if clay target shooting could carry on using it.  
even to achieve a five year time frame would need massive investment in production of steel shot and biodegradable wads all or virtually all of which are not even made in this country so totally outside the control of U.K. shooting orgs or magazine writers.

however before the five years are up the ever rapidly increasing cost of game shooting and cartridges (toxic and non-toxic) may deliver a decline in the use of lead shot before any legal ban.

indeed time will tell.

[grahamch]

Gave up getting it regularly years ago as full of doom and gloom!

But did get this weeks out of boredom when shopping, no basis stated for the lead ban mentioned in the article. 

Can't see the need to ban lead on established shooting grounds where it can be recovered and re-cycled.

On a different note there was an article concluding bog bags are acceptable..... certainly not to most bird watchers I speak to when fowling. They are ok with a few forthe pot but hate the big driven days with superannuated chickens being shot en mass by rich folks. 

 

.

[PeterHenry]

1 hour ago, grahamch said:

Gave up getting it regularly years ago as full of doom and gloom!

But did get this weeks out of boredom when shopping, no basis stated for the lead ban mentioned in the article. 

Can't see the need to ban lead on established shooting grounds where it can be recovered and re-cycled.

On a different note there was an article concluding bog bags are acceptable..... certainly not to most bird watchers I speak to when fowling. They are ok with a few forthe pot but hate the big driven days with superannuated chickens being shot en mass by rich folks. 

 

.

If its the same article posted on the authors website (Diggory Hadoke / The Vintage Gun Journal) then he makes some valid points. However, as I think he makes a nod to, what is deemed acceptable by a person is often a matter of perception. 

[Scully]

1 hour ago, grahamch said:

 

On a different note there was an article concluding bog bags are acceptable..... certainly not to most bird watchers I speak to when fowling. They are ok with a few forthe pot but hate the big driven days with superannuated chickens being shot en mass by rich folks. 

 

.

When it comes to big bags, I’m not too sure wildfowling is in any position to criticise driven shooting, reading what I have regarding articles entitled ‘ the killing fields’. 
As an aside, from what I recall, don’t you participate in driven pheasant shooting? 

[Accuspell]

1 hour ago, grahamch said:

Gave up getting it regularly years ago as full of doom and gloom!

But did get this weeks out of boredom when shopping, no basis stated for the lead ban mentioned in the article. 

Can't see the need to ban lead on established shooting grounds where it can be recovered and re-cycled.

On a different note there was an article concluding bog bags are acceptable..... certainly not to most bird watchers I speak to when fowling. They are ok with a few forthe pot but hate the big driven days with superannuated chickens being shot en mass by rich folks. 

 

.

Because the EU lead group have been told by some scientists that lead is poisonous and shouldn't be used.....  forget the shooting of the lead, think of the manufacture and transport of the products..... dear Mr. Eley / Gamebore / Lyavale ? Rio et al... are you making employees work in an environment where lead is processed? That is verboten.

[grahamch]

12 minutes ago, Scully said:

When it comes to big bags, I’m not too sure wildfowling is in any position to criticise driven shooting, reading what I have regarding articles entitled ‘ the killing fields’. 
As an aside, from what I recall, don’t you participate in driven pheasant shooting? 

Used to but not now. Decided no more after the season just done. Inland geese over decoys is not wildfowling in my book, only shooting on foreshore. 

[Scully]

21 minutes ago, grahamch said:

Used to but not now. Decided no more after the season just done. Inland geese over decoys is not wildfowling in my book, only shooting on foreshore. 

Grand. We all see what we want to see. Aren’t they ‘fowl’, and ‘wild’?  🙂

Edited February 11, 2022 by Scully
Grammar

[Fellside]

They’re certainly fowl if you try roasting one.

Sorry, couldn’t resist…….😄

[rbrowning2]

2 hours ago, Accuspell said:

Because the EU lead group have been told by some scientists that lead is poisonous and shouldn't be used.....  forget the shooting of the lead, think of the manufacture and transport of the products..... dear Mr. Eley / Gamebore / Lyavale ? Rio et al... are you making employees work in an environment where lead is processed? That is verboten.

Yes lead is poisonous just like a lot of other substances.
think I understand what you are saying, the employees are at risk from handling the lead? 
if so with the exception of gamebore who do melt lead ingots to make shot, the rest receive the lead as shot, coated in graphite or possibly copper or nickel, and very unlikely to even touch the lead shot given the modern cartridge manufacturing process.
So the risk must be very small, any risk in working with lead is due to melting it and breathing in the fumes, which is where PPE comes in.

Lead is still big business in lots of industrial applications, medical, nuclear, engineering for example or are you/EU  suggesting humanity stops using lead despite its benefits to mankind.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by rbrowning2

[Accuspell]

8 hours ago, rbrowning2 said:

Yes lead is poisonous just like a lot of other substances.
think I understand what you are saying, the employees are at risk from handling the lead? 
if so with the exception of gamebore who do melt lead ingots to make shot, the rest receive the lead as shot, coated in graphite or possibly copper or nickel, and very unlikely to even touch the lead shot given the modern cartridge manufacturing process.
So the risk must be very small, any risk in working with lead is due to melting it and breathing in the fumes, which is where PPE comes in.

Lead is still big business in lots of industrial applications, medical, nuclear, engineering for example or are you/EU  suggesting humanity stops using lead despite its benefits to mankind.

 

 

 

 

I think you'll find this is the crux of it. The clue was in the first couple of sentences: the scientists.....   they get funding to do research. A group of them have gained funding to research the toxicity of lead and have discovered it is poisonous to humans! (Who knew? 😁 ) Yes, they are trying phase out lead from every facet of our lives, which is why the beneficial properties of it in petrol were cancelled out, and in paint and how many people still get their drinking water delivered through lead pipes? Or have they had them replaced with the even more toxic copper version? 🤣

You see, you make the mistake, like so many people, of thinking laws and Governments are there to make logical decisions based on common sense. Whereas they are actually directed by people with more power than the Government and who really fund things behind the scenes in their own interests. Whenever an authority or business tells you they are doing something for your benefit, e.g. smartmeters, you know very well it is for their benefit. When a Government tells you they are restricting freedom in some way for 'your safety', you know they just want to prevent the general population from having access to that, for their benefit and they use the 'public safety' argument to disguise it so it gains popular acceptance.

The trick to life is to suss this out and just do your own thing. I am stockpiling lead ammo!

[Westley]

On 11/02/2022 at 15:03, London Best said:

I had every Shooting Times for fifteen years, but stopped taking it in 1976.

Yes, NOT the same when you have to buy it  !

[Scully]

19 hours ago, Fellside said:

They’re certainly fowl if you try roasting one.

Sorry, couldn’t resist…….😄

Have never tried it to be honest, but that’s the impression I was always given. All the lads I know who use to shoot geese on flood plains etc, would buy their Christmas dinner geese at auction. 🙂

[Mr.T]

3 hours ago, Westley said:

Yes, NOT the same when you have to buy it  !

Fortunately my library has it so I can download a copy to my tablet at no charge 👍

[London Best]

3 hours ago, Westley said:

Yes, NOT the same when you have to buy it  !

I had to buy my own from ‘65. 
Reason I stopped was because almost every week I felt I had read it before.

[Vince Green]

On 11/02/2022 at 15:10, TIGHTCHOKE said:

That is a problem. Many grounds do not like steel.

The popular view (I could not comment from experience) is that steel does not break clays as well as lead does and people more experienced than me talk about lower scores around 5% 

For a top line clay shooter a loss of 5% is close to not being worth turning up.

I'm also told from another source that muzzle loaders will be exempt from the lead ban. So there is the answer

[Fellside]

4 hours ago, Scully said:

Have never tried it to be honest, but that’s the impression I was always given. All the lads I know who use to shoot geese on flood plains etc, would buy their Christmas dinner geese at auction. 🙂

I used to shoot pinks a lot and tried all sorts of cooking methods. Roasting was the worst. In the end I found if I cut a breast fillet in to thin strips and stir fried it with shallots, butter, and whatever else, it morphed in to something pretty good. Anyway there you go, I’ve digressed from the main topic, so might get moved to a cooking section if there is one…..🙂

Getting back on topic, they were all shot with 42 grams of size 3 lead shot - over stubbles in Scotland. Sometimes if we got the flight lines right a few bonus mallard and grey lags would end up in the bag. Same cart’s for all.