Putin announces 'military operation' in Ukraine.

[Newbie to this]

Perhaps because for years our system has been abused.

And now there are genuine people in true need (not just a want/desire) they are falling victim to the years of abuse.

[oldypigeonpopper]

30 minutes ago, oowee said:

I hope you are right but I doubt it very much. There are already reports of people turned away. 50 to date is frankly appalling.  Why do we not have systems in place now? 

Hello, some have already got to Calais but the UK won't give any Visas 

[holloway]

4 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Surely it is far more important to expend every effort to get the women and children out of Ukraine to a place of safety.

Then it can be sorted out where they go to.

My view exactly,      they have lost everything ….Ireland has scrapped the necessity for a visa or covid test ,I am embarrassed by the Way the Uk is handling refugees it’s shameful.

[clangerman]

we are not letting them in because the public will rightly demand gump seize all the Russian money and property here to pay for refugees so any delay or lack of will is all down to gumps lack of action to avoid upsetting rich Russians 

[amateur]

5 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Intriguing that after two failed evacuation corridors in recent days where both sides have blamed the other.

A third attempt is happening now and that one route from the south east is actually in to Russia.

Apparently Putin is only authorising the corridor ceasefire if the corridor ends in Russia or Belarus. The Ukranians quite rightly say that their citizens should be allowed safe passage to their own homeland

[12gauge82]

5 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, slightly off topic, while many counties that border Russia and others  taking in 1000s of Ukrainian refugees, the UK has given out 50 visas, and only with family relations, 

Absolutely disgusting! 

While our politicians have allowed vast hordes of economic migrants to come here and take the mickey out of our country, we actually get genuine refugees in desperate need and we sit on our hands. It just shows how out of touch our government is. I don't know a single person that wouldn't welcome Ukrainians here with open arms. 

[mel b3]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

I hope you are right but I doubt it very much. There are already reports of people turned away. 50 to date is frankly appalling.  Why do we not have systems in place now? 

It'll happen , it'll just take a bit of time . It's something that nobody expected to happen , so we just didn't have a suitable system in place yet .

52 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Perhaps because for years our system has been abused.

And now there are genuine people in true need (not just a want/desire) they are falling victim to the years of abuse.

This is probably one of the biggest stumbling blocks . The system that we do have , is geared up to keep out the cheats , the ones that just try to get to the UK to get a free ride . The biggest problem is that those in real need will suffer because of the cheats . Hotels and guest Houses,  council houses etc , are full to the brim with economic migrants that arrived here on dinghies , those spaces can't be freed up overnight.

Once things get sorted , I would guess that the UK will take many more Ukrainian refugees than the government has already agreed to .

[TIGHTCHOKE]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

I hope you are right but I doubt it very much. There are already reports of people turned away. 50 to date is frankly appalling.  Why do we not have systems in place now? 

Get them out of the line of fire and we can sort out long term homes for them when they are safe!

2 hours ago, holloway said:

My view exactly,      they have lost everything ….Ireland has scrapped the necessity for a visa or covid test ,I am embarrassed by the Way the Uk is handling refugees it’s shameful.

Save your disgust for Putin and his war mongering.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Russia has issued a list of demands for Ukraine to follow if its invasion is to come to an end.

Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov gave Moscow's most explicit statement so far of the terms it wants to impose on Ukraine to halt its "special military operation", which is now in its 12th day.

Pesko said Ukraine must:

Cease military action

Change its constitution to enshrine neutrality

Acknowledge Crimea as Russian territory

Recognise the separatist republics of Donetsk and Lugansk as independent territories.

The outlining of Russia’s demands came as delegations from Russia and Ukraine prepared to meet on Monday for a third round of talks.

But it is ONLY a Military Action NOT a War!

[Rewulf]

54 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Recognise the separatist republics of Donetsk and Lugansk as independent territories.

Be interesting to see if hes after the entirety of those oblasts, and not just the ones that were held by the separatists.

Far larger areas than what was originally contested with 2 large cities.

[oowee]

56 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Be interesting to see if hes after the entirety of those oblasts, and not just the ones that were held by the separatists.

Far larger areas than what was originally contested with 2 large cities.

Whatever he says is *********** 

[Dave-G]

Apart from the possibility of 'ZORRO' in Cretins head, has anyone figured the significance of 'Z' yet? Google produces loads of guess's.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

5 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Apart from the possibility of 'ZORRO' in Cretins head, has anyone figured the significance of 'Z' yet? Google produces loads of guess's.

"Some interpret "Z" as "Za pobedy" (for victory). Others - as "Zapad" (West),”

[12gauge82]

3 hours ago, mel b3 said:

It'll happen , it'll just take a bit of time . It's something that nobody expected to happen , so we just didn't have a suitable system in place yet .

This is probably one of the biggest stumbling blocks . The system that we do have , is geared up to keep out the cheats , the ones that just try to get to the UK to get a free ride . The biggest problem is that those in real need will suffer because of the cheats . Hotels and guest Houses,  council houses etc , are full to the brim with economic migrants that arrived here on dinghies , those spaces can't be freed up overnight.

Once things get sorted , I would guess that the UK will take many more Ukrainian refugees than the government has already agreed to .

This is spot on. I hope all the idiots who've advocated allowing all these illegal economic migrants to come here using up the capacity that should be for genuine refugees like the Ukrainians is happy with themselves. 

[oowee]

5 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

This is spot on. I hope all the idiots who've advocated allowing all these illegal economic migrants to come here using up the capacity that should be for genuine refugees like the Ukrainians is happy with themselves. 

Fortunately we now have the centre in Calais to deal with the surge. Complete with a packet of crisps and a couple of kit kats. 

[Stuarta]

There were probably only three civil servants in the home office today so they sent them to France, the rest were “shirking at home” ?
The civil service unions call it work life balance and don’t give a pigs ear about illegal or genuine refuges or the Afghans that helped our troops and needed to get out of Kabul,  just as long as their inaction makes the government look bad.

[Weihrauch17]

49 minutes ago, oowee said:

Fortunately we now have the centre in Calais to deal with the surge. Complete with a packet of crisps and a couple of kit kats. 

It is quite unbelievable the utter incompetence of our Politicians.

[Jim Neal]

Here's a thing to ponder over.

I've been watching one of the flight radar websites with much interest, seeing what military planes are where.

At any one time there seems to be in excess of 10 or 15 military transport/freighters (C-17 Globemasters, C-130 Hercules and Boeing passenger-type jets) travelling over Europe, doing round trips to Eastern Poland and Romania not far from the Ukraine border.  They're British, Canadian, Italian and American planes (also, a U.S. Stratotanker flying out of Mildenhall seems to be keeping the big boys topped up).

I'm presuming these must be the deliveries of "aid" in whatever form from the western countries, shipped by air to the nearest viable place and then transported over ground into Ukraine. 

So are these planes coming back empty?  I know it's a very simplistic view but surely if people desperately need evacuating from the region there would be scope to get them on those planes for the return trip.

Probably a paperwork thing.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Very simplistic!

[oldypigeonpopper]

7 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

Here's a thing to ponder over.

I've been watching one of the flight radar websites with much interest, seeing what military planes are where.

At any one time there seems to be in excess of 10 or 15 military transport/freighters (C-17 Globemasters, C-130 Hercules and Boeing passenger-type jets) travelling over Europe, doing round trips to Eastern Poland and Romania not far from the Ukraine border.  They're British, Canadian, Italian and American planes (also, a U.S. Stratotanker flying out of Mildenhall seems to be keeping the big boys topped up).

I'm presuming these must be the deliveries of "aid" in whatever form from the western countries, shipped by air to the nearest viable place and then transported over ground into Ukraine. 

So are these planes coming back empty?  I know it's a very simplistic view but surely if people desperately need evacuating from the region there would be scope to get them on those planes for the return trip.

Probably a paperwork thing.

Hello, if British planes are coming back empty where's the sense in that🤔

[mel b3]

8 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

Here's a thing to ponder over.

I've been watching one of the flight radar websites with much interest, seeing what military planes are where.

At any one time there seems to be in excess of 10 or 15 military transport/freighters (C-17 Globemasters, C-130 Hercules and Boeing passenger-type jets) travelling over Europe, doing round trips to Eastern Poland and Romania not far from the Ukraine border.  They're British, Canadian, Italian and American planes (also, a U.S. Stratotanker flying out of Mildenhall seems to be keeping the big boys topped up).

I'm presuming these must be the deliveries of "aid" in whatever form from the western countries, shipped by air to the nearest viable place and then transported over ground into Ukraine. 

So are these planes coming back empty?  I know it's a very simplistic view but surely if people desperately need evacuating from the region there would be scope to get them on those planes for the return trip.

Probably a paperwork thing.

 

21 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, if British planes are coming back empty where's the sense in that🤔

My heart tells me that you're both right , and that every plane should be filled with as many refugees as possible,  but , my head tells me that their are so many reasons why it isn't being done . I know nothing of the military challenges that might arise from transporting refugees , but just organising a plane filled with civilians at a military base , then unloading them and dealing with them at the other end , would take a massive amount if time , when that time may be better spent on getting more military or food aid to where its needed.  It would be a terrible loss to remove 100 people from relative safety ( away from any military action) , whilst leaving many hundreds to starve because it had taken too long to get food to them.   It may also be that planes set up to transport cargo , are simply unsafe to carry passengers. I'm sure the military guys will be along shortly , and will be able to explain why things aren't as simple as they might seem.  

[TIGHTCHOKE]

It would very simply negate the planes use.

Dead stop, nothing going in, whether troops or weapons or equipment or fuel.

NADA!

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, the only thing I see stopping  Ukrainian refugees with family  in UK is the government's line on all the rules and regulation of applying for a Visa, just a thought, if they got a Polish passport being in the EU would that get them into UK ??

[NoBodyImportant]

Yeah about that extra 1200 pieces of American armor the USA sending, some of it isn’t going to make it.   Hope everyone is ok. https://vm.tiktok.com/ZTdDCUkdE/

[Jim Neal]

5 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

It would very simply negate the planes use.

Dead stop, nothing going in, whether troops or weapons or equipment or fuel.

NADA!

I know exactly what you mean and I was thinking along those lines. I can  fully imagine the massive extra amount of time it would take to herd people aboard at one end and then get them off at the other.
 

And that’s not even considering what the hell you’re going to do with them at the other end.  

Maybe they should hire in some of the recently redundant Ryanair and EasyJet staff who could expedite the process? They can turn round a 737 shipping boozed-up scousers back and forth from Tenerife in less time than an F1 pit stop!

I struggle to imagine that the current airlift efforts into Eastern Europe, maybe a dozen planes in the air at a time during day hours, is the maximum combined capacity of all the western countries currently active in supplying aid.

That’s my feeling. I know there’s a large chunk of reality getting in the way of that ideal scenario!