Payslip earnings to date

[Lloyd90]

When your receive your payslip from your employer, who gives the figures for earnings year to date? 
 

Does HMRC give that to the employer or does it come from the employers own records? 
 

My earnings noted were correct until Jan 2022, but Feb 2022 for reasons (apparently unknown to my employers payroll dept) my noted earnings to date jumped up £60k in 1 month! 
 

As much as I wish I had, I didn’t make £60k in Feb 2022. 
 

Due to this error initially HMRC wanted to deduct £10k from my pay in Feb, but couldn’t obviously as that would be more than my entire payslip. 
 

HMRC have been changing my tax code about recently due to some other work I’ve been doing. 
 

I am currently on a per month tax code so thankfully they are not trying to take my entire pay this month, but the £60k over what I’ve actually earned is still showing on my payslip under total earnings for the year. 
 

Any ideas re this much appreciated. 
 

When I spoke to HMRC on the phone they seemed clueless, as do our payroll dept! 

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, I would have thought your payroll department would be able to sort this out , but your noted being clueless does not give you much faith in the above, hope you can get this sorted Lloyd 👍

[amateur]

Only your payroll department can sort this.

I suspect that someone has been adjusting the YTD numbers. If you get nowhere with them, speak to the chief accountant, financial controller or finance director.

Many years ago, I uncovered a payroll fraud where a payroll clerk was doing exactly that and syphoning off small amounts from all the employees and paying less tax herself.

Most modern payroll systems have wised up to that dodge now, but.......

[Bobba]

This is indeed a matter for your payroll dept and the Finance Director or Chief Accountant responsible for that system

I would write to the FD or Chief Acct with copies of both your Jan and Feb payslips  pointing out the problem and stating that you have asked his staff to resolve the problem but as they are unable to do so will he/she now resolve the matter for you. For good measure you could add that from a systems viewpoint he/she will no doubt find this worrying as payroll reconciliation controls should have already identified the matter and staff should have been dealing with it.

My background was accounting including payroll (long ago) and had this happened I would be extremely worried as to who is tinkering with the system and why?

[simonm]

The employer sends the info to HMRC each month when they run the payroll. 

I hate it when HMRC start fiddling with tax codes, it's a nightmare! Fortunately it all comes out in the wash in self assessment but it can be a real pain.

[Lloyd90]

2 hours ago, Bobba said:

This is indeed a matter for your payroll dept and the Finance Director or Chief Accountant responsible for that system

I would write to the FD or Chief Acct with copies of both your Jan and Feb payslips  pointing out the problem and stating that you have asked his staff to resolve the problem but as they are unable to do so will he/she now resolve the matter for you. For good measure you could add that from a systems viewpoint he/she will no doubt find this worrying as payroll reconciliation controls should have already identified the matter and staff should have been dealing with it.

My background was accounting including payroll (long ago) and had this happened I would be extremely worried as to who is tinkering with the system and why?

So the HMRC have not given my employer a noted total earnings to date? 
 

the error is within my payroll department? 
 

 

thank you 👍🏻

[Bobba]

45 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

So the HMRC have not given my employer a noted total earnings to date? 
 

the error is within my payroll department? 
 

 

thank you 👍🏻

Correct, as far as HMRC is concerned. They issue tax codes.

As to whether it is your “Payroll Dept” depends on what you call payroll dept and how your pay is processed. I believe from some of your previous posts that you may be connected with Social Services. Central and local Governments can operate in one of two ways. They either (1) do the full HR and payroll function or (2) they have an HR dept which feeds staff changes etc to a central payroll body which operates payroll for a number of depts.

In the case of (1) I would be inclined to write direct to the Chief Acct or FD. In the case of (2) writing to the central payroll body will only bring the response “we only process what we are instructed by your HR dept” so I would be inclined to write a joint letter to both the head of HR and The chief Acct.

HTH

[Lloyd90]

thank you 

[amateur]

I agree with Bobba

[amateur]

6 hours ago, Bobba said:

 .........For good measure you could add that from a systems viewpoint he/she will no doubt find this worrying as payroll reconciliation controls should have already identified the matter and staff should have been dealing with it........

Just as a matter of fact, the particular fraud that I was concerned about could not be detected by a simple reconciliation of the payroll deductions, however if the defrauded individual employees totted up the tax paid month by month it would not equal their declared YTD tax paid, but the declared YTD would be correct, so HMIT would not raise any concerns.

[Bobba]

12 hours ago, amateur said:

Just as a matter of fact, the particular fraud that I was concerned about could not be detected by a simple reconciliation of the payroll deductions, however if the defrauded individual employees totted up the tax paid month by month it would not equal their declared YTD tax paid, but the declared YTD would be correct, so HMIT would not raise any concerns.

Thank you. How interesting. Organisations should always be alert where money / payments are concerned.

[amateur]

3 hours ago, Bobba said:

Thank you. How interesting. Organisations should always be alert where money / payments are concerned.

This was over 40 years ago and nowadays, usually, changes to totals are better protected.

[Lloyd90]

I have raised it with my payroll dept, and also with my line manager as an initial issue. 
 

If they do not resolve it then obviously will kick it up the chain to the financial officer. 
 

Let’s see if they can work it out. 

[amateur]

2 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

I have raised it with my payroll dept, and also with my line manager as an initial issue. 
 

If they do not resolve it then obviously will kick it up the chain to the financial officer. 
 

Let’s see if they can work it out. 

Let us know the outcome.

[ninjaferret]

My partner works at HMRC  she has advised me, and i know what the problem is 

[Bobba]

12 hours ago, ninjaferret said:

My partner works at HMRC  she has advised me, and i know what the problem is 

Well, do the decent thing and offer that advice to Lloyd90. I too would be interested.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Bobba

[amateur]

2 minutes ago, Bobba said:

Well, do the descent thing and offer that advice to Lloyd90. I too would be interested.

Yup

[Lloyd90]

16 hours ago, Bobba said:

Well, do the decent thing and offer that advice to Lloyd90. I too would be interested.

He’s a troll mate best ignored 👍🏻

[Mice!]

On 25/03/2022 at 12:49, Lloyd90 said:

I have raised it with my payroll dept, and also with my line manager as an initial issue. 
 

If they do not resolve it then obviously will kick it up the chain to the financial officer. 
 

Let’s see if they can work it out. 

Tell them they owe you 60k they should act fast enough then.

[Lloyd90]

2 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Tell them they owe you 60k they should act fast enough then.

Aye I’ve told them the money never arrived in my account 👀🤣🤣

[B725]

20 hours ago, ninjaferret said:

My partner works at HMRC  she has advised me, and i know what the problem is 

I used to say things like that when I was in the infant school, can't you just explain why?

[Bobba]

On 25/03/2022 at 12:49, Lloyd90 said:

I have raised it with my payroll dept, and also with my line manager as an initial issue. 
 

If they do not resolve it then obviously will kick it up the chain to the financial officer. 
 

Let’s see if they can work it out. 

Hi Lloyd90, it’s been three weeks since you raised this with payroll. Have they resolved the problem for you? Thanks

[Lloyd90]

2 hours ago, Bobba said:

Hi Lloyd90, it’s been three weeks since you raised this with payroll. Have they resolved the problem for you? Thanks

Payroll are adamant that HMRC sent them something that was incorrect and their issue, and they will not change anything without HMRC telling them to correct it. 
 

I have raised a formal complaint with HMRC over the issue as the people on the phone were clueless what the problem was. 
 

It’s been almost 3 weeks and I believe HMRC haven’t even looked at my complaint yet! 
 

They estimated it would be about the 16th before they even read it. 

[Bobba]

Thanks. How frustrating and annoying for you.

Prior to retiring (2nd time) I was Finance Officer in a Bristol mail order Co. running Sage Payroll.Before that 14 yrs Chief Acct in a Govnt Agency. In all that time I have never experienced HMRC requiring changes to an employers payroll functionality. Every day’s a school day.

so that you can have confidence in what your people are saying I would spin the tale that HMRC are drawing a blank so could they let you have a copy of what HMRC sent them in order to help your discussions with HMRC. If they cannot provide the evidence then Iwould start to be suspicious and ask them in such circumstances how they justified their actions. If they do give you HMRC docs it starts your audit trail with HMRC.

good luck

 

[amateur]

1 hour ago, Bobba said:

Thanks. How frustrating and annoying for you.

Prior to retiring (2nd time) I was Finance Officer in a Bristol mail order Co. running Sage Payroll.Before that 14 yrs Chief Acct in a Govnt Agency. In all that time I have never experienced HMRC requiring changes to an employers payroll functionality. Every day’s a school day.

so that you can have confidence in what your people are saying I would spin the tale that HMRC are drawing a blank so could they let you have a copy of what HMRC sent them in order to help your discussions with HMRC. If they cannot provide the evidence then Iwould start to be suspicious and ask them in such circumstances how they justified their actions. If they do give you HMRC docs it starts your audit trail with HMRC.

good luck

 

As a retired FD with over 30 years of running SMEs before I retired, I agree with Bobba.

The explanation doesn't  smell quite right. Ask for and follow the paper trail until it provides an understandable explanation.