Just another rant about my tax dollars going to the Ukraine

[NoBodyImportant]

So on top of the first 7 billion congress gave to the Ukraine they just decided to rob another 13.7 billion from us American tax payers to give them.  So I’m sure we will see more people getting caught at airports with suitcases of money in the near future.  We could have secured our borders with 4 billion but we didn’t have the money.  America could have bought 300 F35 fighter planes and moved them to Poland and it would have been more of a threat to Russia then this waist.  I’m done.  

[oowee]

1 minute ago, NoBodyImportant said:

So on top of the first 7 billion congress gave to the Ukraine they just decided to rob another 13.7 billion from us American tax payers to give them.  So I’m sure we will see more people getting caught at airports with suitcases of money in the near future.  We could have secured our borders with 4 billion but we didn’t have the money.  America could have bought 300 F35 fighter planes and moved them to Poland and it would have been more of a threat to Russia then this waist.  I’m done.  

Money????

Feel lucky you are not giving lives. 

[johnphilip]

13 minutes ago, oowee said:

Money????

Feel lucky you are not giving lives. 

But he is right , how much will go to were it is needed , 

[welsh1]

26 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

So on top of the first 7 billion congress gave to the Ukraine they just decided to rob another 13.7 billion from us American tax payers to give them.  So I’m sure we will see more people getting caught at airports with suitcases of money in the near future.  We could have secured our borders with 4 billion but we didn’t have the money.  America could have bought 300 F35 fighter planes and moved them to Poland and it would have been more of a threat to Russia then this waist.  I’m done.  

Do you think your country just gives the money away with no strings attached lol?

 

[Rewulf]

59 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

Do you think your country just gives the money away with no strings attached lol?

 

I think that's the point, it goes out as tax dollars, but it will come back as profits, straight into the accounts of big corporations. 

It's like all these weapons shipments, WE paid for them, but we will never see any return on it. 

Someone will, but it won't be us. 

[Wylye]

Money? You talk about money when ordinary peoples lives are being torn apart every day. The pain, sorrow and suffering being endured in Ukraine is heartbreaking and almost impossible to imagine. I don’t know what the outcome of all this will be but sending jets to Poland will only escalate the war. Sanctions are far more effective and will finally isolate Russia and force an eventual end to this terrible, awful war.

[ditchman]

arms for aid..........the british are very good at it......malaysia.......tanzania......michael heseltine....maggie thatcher......

[NoBodyImportant]

2 hours ago, johnphilip said:

But he is right , how much will go to were it is needed , 

Little to none, Ukrainian is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. 

32 minutes ago, Wylye said:

Money? You talk about money when ordinary peoples lives are being torn apart every day. The pain, sorrow and suffering being endured in Ukraine is heartbreaking and almost impossible to imagine. I don’t know what the outcome of all this will be but sending jets to Poland will only escalate the war. Sanctions are far more effective and will finally isolate Russia and force an eventual end to this terrible, awful war.

Nobody cared when the Ukrainian government was indiscriminately shelling Donetsk and Luhansk. 

[Benthejockey]

I'm going to stick my head above the parapet here and agree with @NoBodyImportant

As a country we're on our ****. Energy, fuel, cost of living its all sky rocketed and it was going up before Russia started playing silly *******. They've been farting about for the last decade flexing their muscles but apparently only once they blow up a few buildings does it occur to anyone to do anything. Last I heard we'd sent over 400 million in aid money plus all the toys and donations from Joe public. £400 million! Now it's very sad that Ukraine is bearing the Brunt of vlads bad mood but christ think of the good that 400 million could have actually done here at home. You're not telling me had Ireland or Wales or the Scottish come knocking in a foul temper and blown up some civilians in Birmingham and been threatening to take over London, that Ukraine would give a monkeys?! They're not a third world, they're Eastern European but they're not a poverty stricken African shanty town of a country. Its very sad but there's wars going on all over the place all of the time. 25k dead in the Russia/Ukraine war since 2014. That's not even a drop in the ocean compared to Ethiopia/Eritrea/Sudan- 500000 or Yemen/Saudi/UAE 377000 deaths. But we aside from Lewis Hamilton moaning he won't race in Saudi occasionally we don't hear about these crises. 

So yeah I agree with our American chum that charity should begin at home.

[ordnance]

Quote

NoBodyImportant Nobody cared when the Ukrainian government was indiscriminately shelling Donetsk and Luhansk.

Didn't know that, what evidence have you seen that ( the Ukrainian government was indiscriminately shelling Donetsk and Luhansk ) ? As for tax pounds going to Ukraine, I have no problem with some of my tax pounds going to help Ukraine. 

Quote

NoBodyImportant Little to none, Ukrainian is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. 

Same question what evidence do have that ( Ukrainian is one of the most corrupt countries in the world ) ?

 

The Top 11 Most Corrupt Countries in the World (2020 Corruption Perceptions Index):

CPI score on a scale of most (0) to least (100) corrupt

1. South Sudan - 11
2. Somalia - 13 (tie)
3. Syria - 13 (tie)
4. Venezuela - 14
5. Afghanistan - 16 (tie)
6. North Korea - 16 (tie)
7. Yemen - 16 (tie)
8. Equatorial Guinea - 17 (tie)
9. Libya - 17 (tie)
10. Burundi - 19 (tie)
11. Congo (Dem. Republic of) - 19 (tie)
12. Turkmenistan - 19 (tie)

Edited April 6, 2022 by ordnance

[holloway]

6 minutes ago, Benthejockey said:

I'm going to stick my head above the parapet here and agree with @NoBodyImportant

As a country we're on our ****. Energy, fuel, cost of living its all sky rocketed and it was going up before Russia started playing silly *******. They've been farting about for the last decade flexing their muscles but apparently only once they blow up a few buildings does it occur to anyone to do anything. Last I heard we'd sent over 400 million in aid money plus all the toys and donations from Joe public. £400 million! Now it's very sad that Ukraine is bearing the Brunt of vlads bad mood but christ think of the good that 400 million could have actually done here at home. You're not telling me had Ireland or Wales or the Scottish come knocking in a foul temper and blown up some civilians in Birmingham and been threatening to take over London, that Ukraine would give a monkeys?! They're not a third world, they're Eastern European but they're not a poverty stricken African shanty town of a country. Its very sad but there's wars going on all over the place all of the time. 25k dead in the Russia/Ukraine war since 2014. That's not even a drop in the ocean compared to Ethiopia/Eritrea/Sudan- 500000 or Yemen/Saudi/UAE 377000 deaths. But we aside from Lewis Hamilton moaning he won't race in Saudi occasionally we don't hear about these crises. 

So yeah I agree with our American chum that charity should begin at home.

…“Only once they blow up a few buildings “…that is an extremely ignorant remark ,there are whole cities flattened complete with residents.

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, ordnance said:

Same question what evidence do have that ( Ukrainian is one of the most corrupt countries in the world )

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine#:~:text=In 2012 Ernst %26 Young put,corrupt nation in the world.

[udderlyoffroad]

11 hours ago, Benthejockey said:

You're not telling me had Ireland or Wales or the Scottish come knocking in a foul temper and blown up some civilians in Birmingham and been threatening to take over London, that Ukraine would give a monkeys?!

No, but you might get a few dollars in the hat in Boston!

11 hours ago, Benthejockey said:

But we aside from Lewis Hamilton moaning he won't race in Saudi occasionally we don't hear about these crises. 

First thing he's done that isn't highly irritating.

11 hours ago, Benthejockey said:

They've been farting about for the last decade flexing their muscles but apparently only once they blow up a few buildings does it occur to anyone to do anything.

There was one recent American president who was, very publicly, warning NATO about this, and urging other members to up their defence spending and capabilities.  But obviously he wasn't listened to as he tweeted nasty words so was the WORST THING EVA (tm).

 

15 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

We could have secured our borders with 4 billion but we didn’t have the money.

That's not how you get democrat voters!

[Raja Clavata]

17 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

So on top of the first 7 billion congress gave to the Ukraine they just decided to rob another 13.7 billion from us American tax payers to give them.  So I’m sure we will see more people getting caught at airports with suitcases of money in the near future.  We could have secured our borders with 4 billion but we didn’t have the money.  America could have bought 300 F35 fighter planes and moved them to Poland and it would have been more of a threat to Russia then this waist.  I’m done.  

You, we, are fighting a proxy war with Russia and Ukraine is host - 20 billion is a small price for the US to pay to keep that war at arms length.

Please take a step back and think about the big picture here, you can't currently secure your borders from Russian hypersonic nuclear weapons, I'd suggest that's a bit more of an existential threat than Mexican migrants.

On the topic of corruption, in the UK, between February and November 2020, 98.9 percent of COVID-19 related contracts by value (£17.8 billion) were awarded without any form of competition, many without adequate justification and often to companies with no track record of supplying goods or services including 10 firms that were less than 60 days old. I'm sure nothing like that ever goes on in the US...

[Rewulf]

26 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

20 billion is a small price for the US to pay to keep that war at arms length.

I truly believe that the US wants to keep any war with Russia at arms length.
But I also believe that this particular proxy war was started by the US back in 2014, with 'groundwork' going on before that.
The US has pumped more money into Ukraine than ANY OTHER European country since it gained independence.
And no one asks why.

https://www.axios.com/ukraine-us-foreign-asistance-d96801de-e7a2-43a0-bfc6-02e476031fe8.html

[Mice!]

5 hours ago, Rewulf said:

I truly believe that the US wants to keep any war with Russia at arms length.
But I also believe that this particular proxy war was started by the US back in 2014, with 'groundwork' going on before that.
The US has pumped more money into Ukraine than ANY OTHER European country since it gained independence.
And no one asks why.

https://www.axios.com/ukraine-us-foreign-asistance-d96801de-e7a2-43a0-bfc6-02e476031fe8.html

It makes absolute sense for for the USA to fund a war against Russia rather than fight it, the sanctions hurt Russia and countries then buy oil from the states rather than Russia.

20 hours ago, Benthejockey said:

I'm going to stick my head above the parapet here and agree with @NoBodyImportant

As a country we're on our ****. Energy, fuel, cost of living its all sky rocketed and it was going up before Russia started playing silly *******. They've been farting about for the last decade flexing their muscles but apparently only once they blow up a few buildings does it occur to anyone to do anything. Last I heard we'd sent over 400 million in aid money plus all the toys and donations from Joe public. £400 million! Now it's very sad that Ukraine is bearing the Brunt of vlads bad mood but christ think of the good that 400 million could have actually done here at home. You're not telling me had Ireland or Wales or the Scottish come knocking in a foul temper and blown up some civilians in Birmingham and been threatening to take over London, that Ukraine would give a monkeys?! They're not a third world, they're Eastern European but they're not a poverty stricken African shanty town of a country. Its very sad but there's wars going on all over the place all of the time. 25k dead in the Russia/Ukraine war since 2014. That's not even a drop in the ocean compared to Ethiopia/Eritrea/Sudan- 500000 or Yemen/Saudi/UAE 377000 deaths. But we aside from Lewis Hamilton moaning he won't race in Saudi occasionally we don't hear about these crises. 

So yeah I agree with our American chum that charity should begin at home.

Been said a few times now, you would think this is the first time something like this has happened,  it's just the first time it's happened in Europe and not been civil war, the ongoing war since 2014 never got a mention till the tanks went in.

We were supposed to be broke after covid but there is money and weapons being sent without hesitation. 

Yet little or nothing mentioned about the other ongoing wars, if that's what they are, probably because they are further away and won't affect us??

I can understand people wanting to help when you are seeing women and children fleeing the violence, its in stark contrast to what we normally see when it's mostly young males arriving in dinghies. 

Certainly off topic ish, but another local hotel announced it was closing this week, with 24hrs notice and will be housing refugees,  I doubt they'll be Ukrainian. 

[ordnance]

20 hours ago, Rewulf said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine#:~:text=In 2012 Ernst %26 Young put,corrupt nation in the world.

Not even in the top ten, it's hardly ( one of most corrupt countries in the world ) 

[Rewulf]

48 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Not even in the top ten, it's hardly ( one of most corrupt countries in the world ) 

Do you even bother to read what's in the link? 

Corruption is widespread in Ukrainian society.^[1][2] In 2012 Ernst & Young put Ukraine among the three most-corrupt nations of the world—alongside Colombia and Brazil.^[3] In 2015 The Guardian called Ukraine "the most corrupt nation in Europe".^[4] According to a poll conducted by Ernst & Young in 2017, experts considered Ukraine to be the ninth-most corrupt nation in the world.^[5

[ordnance]

34 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Do you even bother to read what's in the link? 

Corruption is widespread in Ukrainian society.^[1][2] In 2012 Ernst & Young put Ukraine among the three most-corrupt nations of the world—alongside Colombia and Brazil.^[3] In 2015 The Guardian called Ukraine "the most corrupt nation in Europe".^[4] According to a poll conducted by Ernst & Young in 2017, experts considered Ukraine to be the ninth-most corrupt nation in the world.^[5

Did you read it, this is 2022. Anyway i don't see what the level of corruption in a particular country has to do with helping them when they are invaded, I doubt Russia is there to help lower corruption in Ukraine. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by ordnance

[Rewulf]

21 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Did you read it, this is 2022. Anyway i don't see what the level of corruption in a particular country has to do with helping them when they are invaded, I doubt Russia is there to help lower corruption in Ukraine. 

YOU asked for evidence of Ukraine being corrupt 😂 I gave it, then you said its not in the top ten, it is. 

Now you don't like the answer because it's not up to date enough 🙄

THEN  you say it doesn't matter anyway, classic 🤔

[Minky]

TAX DOLLARS.,!!    TAX DOLLARS don't exist.   All they do is get a  blooming great toilet roll,  a  Big felt tip pen and write out the big notes. You're  just a fish on a hook let run until the angler decides to reel you in.  Whatever it costs on imaginary paper will be reclaimed in the forthcoming years. A Russian experiment that might balled them dry.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Minky

[ordnance]

15 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

YOU asked for evidence of Ukraine being corrupt 😂 I gave it, then you said its not in the top ten, it is. 

Now you don't like the answer because it's not up to date enough 🙄

THEN  you say it doesn't matter anyway, classic 🤔

And i could post lots that do not put Ukraine in the top ten or anywhere near it, some even from Wikipedia your preferred source. You posted about Ukraine and corruption. Right or wrong what's your point ?

Edited April 7, 2022 by ordnance

[ordnance]

10 hours ago, Rewulf said:

I truly believe that the US wants to keep any war with Russia at arms length.
But I also believe that this particular proxy war was started by the US back in 2014, with 'groundwork' going on before that.
The US has pumped more money into Ukraine than ANY OTHER European country since it gained independence.
And no one asks why.

https://www.axios.com/ukraine-us-foreign-asistance-d96801de-e7a2-43a0-bfc6-02e476031fe8.html

Why ?

 

[Rewulf]

29 minutes ago, ordnance said:

You posted about Ukraine and corruption. Right or wrong what's your point ?

I actually didn't post about it, you replied to NoBodyImportant, claiming Ukraine wasnt corrupt, as according to you, it wasn't in the top ten. 

I put you right. 

You used transparency internationals CPI index to prove your point, which put Ukraine at 32, amongst the central African banana republics, Russia and Mexico, so not corrupt at all then 😂

Transparency International, made up of world Bank ex employees, who likely know a thing about corruption, as they practice it regularly, are a Berlin based think tank, who are financed by Western businesses, many of whom stand accused of corrupt practice. 

At least my sources are cleaner. 

[NoBodyImportant]

1 hour ago, ordnance said:

Why ?

 

Here is a completely hypothetical situation.   Pretend your a political figure, you arrange to have a billion  in aid from your country sent to the Ukrainian to help them out.  Then a year later a government funded gas company hires your son to advise them on how to run the company with a million dollar a year salary. Then a few more companies by some of your sons art work for a few million and the companies donate your sons art work to museums for tax right offs. This is all hypothetical. 

On a completely unrelated subject has anyone saw the latest Hunter Biden paintings, they are really bad, he better hang on to his day job as a Ukrainian energy expert.