Panorama

[clangerman]

2019-2020 dwp estimated loss of 2.3bn to fraud hmrc 1.35 to tax credit at the same period 15bn went unclaimed in means tested benefits not hard to do the math if we are that bothered with 16bn lost to furlough fraud business are the biggest thieves ever seen! 

[Vince Green]

1 hour ago, toxo said:

Lets get this straight once and for all. Labour stands up for people not money. What does that actually mean? It means that if you want a happy society (meaning ALL society) certain things have to be in place like a police force, an NHS, a fire service and decent wages for all.

What do all those utilities have in common? THEY COST MONEY. They don't make money.

Under a tory government, these are the first to take a hit. A bit like the first out the door in a failing business is the cleaner. This is why, if you get burgled, you're lucky if you get a crime number let alone someone knocking on your door.

It's true big investors don't like Labour because their raison d'être is to MAKE MONEY. So what does the Labour party have to do in order for EVERYONE to be happy? You work it out.

 

I'm sorry but I don't agree with you. Labour dont stand up for people they just say that they do.

After all, Labour needs the country to have a poor and disadvantaged underclass. Otherwise who would vote for them? 

So they tell people they are going to solve all their problems but never actually do. 

Labour would be shooting themselves in the foot to create a society without problems or conflicts 

Same as the unions. How many industries have they closed down over the years claiming to be defending the workers?

Edited April 17, 2022 by Vince Green

[toxo]

33 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

I'm sorry but I don't agree with you. Labour dont stand up for people they just say that they do.

After all, Labour needs the country to have a poor and disadvantaged underclass. Otherwise who would vote for them? 

So they tell people they are going to solve all their problems but never actually do. 

Labour would be shooting themselves in the foot to create a society without problems or conflicts 

Same as the unions. How many industries have they closed down over the years claiming to be defending the workers?

What a load of ****! Name me one promise or pledge the torys have fulfilled from their manifesto to the present day?

[Gordon R]

Quote

Lets get this straight once and for all. Labour stands up for people not money.

It's hard not to laugh at junk like this. In recent times, I can only think of Frank Field who actually cared about people. Labour stands for anti-semitism.

Quote

Name me one promise or pledge the torys have fulfilled from their manifesto to the present day?

Brexit. Now will you stop being silly?

[toxo]

3 hours ago, Gordon R said:

It's hard not to laugh at junk like this. In recent times, I can only think of Frank Field who actually cared about people. Labour stands for anti-semitism.

Brexit. Now will you stop being silly?

You're one of the worst offenders. You're nasty, aggressive, you poo poo anything that doesn't suit you and you never ever add anything constructive to the debate. You're deluded enough to tout the tory party as getting Brexit done!!! what a joke. First of all Cameron went stone cold when he agreed to the referendum thinking no one would take it up. If it had been left up to the tories we'd still be in. Apart from that Brexit still isn't done. The biggest thing on the ticket was immigration. They've done really well with that one right?

For what it's worth it was Nigel Farage that got Brexit through

[discobob]

5 hours ago, Vince Green said:

I'm sorry but I don't agree with you. Labour dont stand up for people they just say that they do.

After all, Labour needs the country to have a poor and disadvantaged underclass. Otherwise who would vote for them? 

So they tell people they are going to solve all their problems but never actually do. 

Labour would be shooting themselves in the foot to create a society without problems or conflicts 

Same as the unions. How many industries have they closed down over the years claiming to be defending the workers?

Just look at Welsh Labour - been in power for 21 years in Wales - worst performing country in the union!!! We should be in the land of Milk and Honey by now if labour was that good

[toxo]

1 hour ago, discobob said:

Just look at Welsh Labour - been in power for 21 years in Wales - worst performing country in the union!!! We should be in the land of Milk and Honey by now if labour was that good

Define "performing", do you mean doing badly for the majority of people or doing badly for the more well off element?

[Vince Green]

7 hours ago, toxo said:

What a load of ****! Name me one promise or pledge the torys have fulfilled from their manifesto to the present day?

OK So what have the Romans ever done for us? 

Well Brexit for one

Keeping Corbin and his loonies out of Downing St is pretty magnificent

Edited April 17, 2022 by Vince Green

[Mice!]

9 hours ago, toxo said:

Lets get this straight once and for all. Labour stands up for people not money

The thing is I find this hard to believe,  as someone who has worked all his life, as a machinist nothing fancy it always seems to me that Labour want to punish the workers, whilst allowing perfectly fit and able people to sit at home enjoying a comfortable life without having to work, simply have four or five kids then milk the system, keeping these people happy means they'll keep voting for Labour.

How can that be right?

[Scully]

1 hour ago, toxo said:

Define "performing", do you mean doing badly for the majority of people or doing badly for the more well off element?

I’ll ask again…..what have you done to ‘address the problem’ you’re so keen for us to? 

[albifrons]

2 hours ago, discobob said:

Just look at Welsh Labour - been in power for 21 years in Wales - worst performing country in the union!!! We should be in the land of Milk and Honey by now if labour was that good

Bang on the money.

If the Welsh Assembley is indicative of how Labour would govern, then god help us all if they ever get the keys to No 10.

 

[toxo]

20 minutes ago, Mice! said:

The thing is I find this hard to believe,  as someone who has worked all his life, as a machinist nothing fancy it always seems to me that Labour want to punish the workers, whilst allowing perfectly fit and able people to sit at home enjoying a comfortable life without having to work, simply have four or five kids then milk the system, keeping these people happy means they'll keep voting for Labour.

How can that be right?

If not for Labour and the unions (and I know they sometimes went too far) your wages and working conditions would be nothing like they are now.

The benefit system wants looking at but don't lump the bludgers (an Australian term that I rather like) in with people who have absolutely nothing and no means to get themselves any further up the ladder. As a so called "caring society" aren't we duty bound to help them?

And as for punishing the workers? what do you think is happening right now? Filled your car up lately? Got your energy bills through yet? And don't tell me that this sorry lot couldn't give more than 5p back on fuel duty because they can.

[toxo]

16 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’ll ask again…..what have you done to ‘address the problem’ you’re so keen for us to? 

No one asked you to address anything. I merely thanked the Panarama program for highlighting what quite a lot of people are going through in this our caring society.

Did any of you watch the program? One woman with children was wrapped in a blanket because she couldn't afford to put the heating on. She had no money left at all and she was praying the £2 something left on the prepayment meter would last for the next three days until she got some money.

Do any of you know how horrendously expensive the tariffs are on prepayment meters. It's the same damn electricity for gods sake.

[Mice!]

3 minutes ago, toxo said:

If not for Labour and the unions (and I know they sometimes went too far) your wages and working conditions would be nothing like they are now.

That's possible,  but I've worked at two good companies,  both were closed shops, both have closed and gone now, the union might have got the old boys a good pay out but those jobs have gone now.

I've also worked at a good few places that could have done with the union being in place because of health and safety issues,  but they'd never have been allowed in.

The last place I worked at we brought the union in because management were basically bullying us, but the shifts still changed,  wages dropped and loads off the shop floor and offices left.

The unions aren't needed anymore. 

12 minutes ago, toxo said:

The benefit system wants looking at but don't lump the bludgers (an Australian term that I rather like) in with people who have absolutely nothing and no means to get themselves any further up the ladder. As a so called "caring society" aren't we duty bound to help them?

The benefits system does need looking at, we grew up with one parent on disability while the other worked to make ends meet, it was tough, we never went abroad,  didn't have sky TV ect, but we made do , and we were brought up well, knowing if we wanted more then we'd have to earn it, all three kids grew up with a great work ethic,  have never been unemployed and have great families. 

This in stark contrast to people choosing not to work, having kids then living off the system.

The system should be for those in genuine need, not a life style choice.

23 minutes ago, toxo said:

And as for punishing the workers? what do you think is happening right now? Filled your car up lately? Got your energy bills through yet? And don't tell me that this sorry lot couldn't give more than 5p back on fuel duty because they can.

I have, £170.7 for diesel yesterday, certainly not great, but not entirely in our Gov control though,  and I agree they could have knocked more than 5p off a litre, but I accept that covid has cost a fortune,  5p is neither here or there, it was a token gesture and nothing more.

[Scully]

On 16/04/2022 at 18:45, toxo said:

 

Thus far none of you have tried to address the problem 

I beg to differ. What is the above about then? 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Scully

[Mice!]

3 hours ago, discobob said:

Just look at Welsh Labour - been in power for 21 years in Wales - worst performing country in the union!!! We should be in the land of Milk and Honey by now if labour was that good

I didn't realise they had been in control for that long, Labour or the Conservatives seem to get two or three terms then folk want a change, but 21 years straight should mean everything is great, or people just won't vote for anything but Labour  sounds like Stockholm syndrome. 

[Scully]

26 minutes ago, toxo said:

No one asked you to address anything. I merely thanked the Panarama program for highlighting what quite a lot of people are going through in this our caring society.

Did any of you watch the program? One woman with children was wrapped in a blanket because she couldn't afford to put the heating on. She had no money left at all and she was praying the £2 something left on the prepayment meter would last for the next three days until she got some money.

Do any of you know how horrendously expensive the tariffs are on prepayment meters. It's the same damn electricity for gods sake.

As scandalous as it is in this 21st century, there have been people living in abject poverty for centuries; you would think that with all the subsequent Labour governments which have had their turn in power, being the saviours you seem to think they are, they would have got to grips with it by now wouldn’t you? 🤷‍♂️

[Gordon R]

toxo - address the anti-semitism. You seem to be avoiding the issue, with your mock outrage.

[12gauge82]

7 hours ago, toxo said:

You're one of the worst offenders. You're nasty, aggressive, you poo poo anything that doesn't suit you and you never ever add anything constructive to the debate. You're deluded enough to tout the tory party as getting Brexit done!!! what a joke. First of all Cameron went stone cold when he agreed to the referendum thinking no one would take it up. If it had been left up to the tories we'd still be in. Apart from that Brexit still isn't done. The biggest thing on the ticket was immigration. They've done really well with that one right?

For what it's worth it was Nigel Farage that got Brexit through

Got to say, I have no faith in the Conservatives or Labour, but there's alot of truth in this. 

Our political system is completely broken and has done nothing for the working masses in years. The whole thing needs complete change and that's not going to come from red or blue. 

[Raja Clavata]

On 16/04/2022 at 10:34, toontastic said:

I live on a **** hole of an estate, crime is high and many don't/won't work. I see many who genuinely do struggle but I also see many many more who abuse the system. I see people who holiday abroad visiting food banks surely that has to be wrong. Instead of blaming the haves try looking at those who are taking the mick. 

Well said

[toxo]

Labour/Tory, it's just a name. You think I'm a Labour voter? Wrong. I used to be but not for a while. They are found wanting in some areas but their goals are better for the country and the people in it. If you look at it objectively, What tools do they have compared to the torys? Generalising now, Most of em don't come from an Eton/Harrow background where they're taught from birth how to make money. They don't have anything like the budget that the tories have to work with. Tory background and money enables them to promise the world and give nothing. Their focus is all about getting re-elected and they're very good at it. They've been proven liars time and time again and still never admit it or say sorry. They get £50 whilst the rest of us get many times more. They're rotten to the core and because they focus every year to make more "haves" they get away with it.

My vote for the Reform party is the only way I have to register my disappointment with the whole system and hope they get enough votes to make someone take notice.

[Scully]

12 minutes ago, toxo said:

Labour/Tory, it's just a name. You think I'm a Labour voter? Wrong. I used to be but not for a while. They are found wanting in some areas but their goals are better for the country and the people in it. If you look at it objectively, What tools do they have compared to the torys? Generalising now, Most of em don't come from an Eton/Harrow background where they're taught from birth how to make money. They don't have anything like the budget that the tories have to work with. Tory background and money enables them to promise the world and give nothing. Their focus is all about getting re-elected and they're very good at it. They've been proven liars time and time again and still never admit it or say sorry. They get £50 whilst the rest of us get many times more. They're rotten to the core and because they focus every year to make more "haves" they get away with it.

My vote for the Reform party is the only way I have to register my disappointment with the whole system and hope they get enough votes to make someone take notice.

So, let’s sum this up. After all that, you haven’t done anything to address this scandalous behaviour either, except supporting the reform party ( that’ll show em! 😄 ) despite in one post lambasting other posters for not ‘rebelling’! 
Even as an ex labour supporter, that ingrained chip on your shoulder for the privileged and those of inherited entitlement will be with you for life. 

[Mice!]

I watched an episode of SOUTH OF THE RIVER last night, football isn't my thing but something made me watch. 

Young lads trying to change their families lives by making it in football,  apparently 14% of English footballers in the top flight are from South London. 

The bit that caught my eye because of this thread was that Tony B gave his first speech as PM from one of the areas, might have been Aylesbury, they showed a clip,  and since then not a thing has changed in a seriously poor area, despite Labour being in power.

[Dave-G]

If news reports are correct party politics across the globe all seem to be performing about the same with mostly two options because more options split the votes in too many directions leading to two party's sharing... I forget the word.

[Newbie to this]

Things like this is why Labour are are where they are

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/william-gladstone-park-renamed-diane-abbott-slavery-review/