Fury v Whyte

[Raja Clavata]

On 25/04/2022 at 18:36, chrisjpainter said:

I think right now Joshua's only strategy would have to be to try and walk through the jab and go for haymaker after haymaker. If he can land a few big shots early it could give Tyson something to think about. But he'd need to do it for round after round. What he needs is to learn how to move defensively. He can't match Fury for offensive movement, but if he can shift his feet more and sway intelligently to make Fury miss his big shots, that's tiring for a big man, because you're constantly having to reign in the missed punch to stop yourself over balancing. A long shot though. 

Too long a shot in my opinion.  AJ would most likely get battered

I think Fury would have beaten any of the older generation. Training and diet play a huge part in conditioning and that's moved on so much since Ali and Foreman were in the ring. And he'd have beaten Mike Tyson and Holyfield, because he moves so well. Lennox Lewis? Now that's a question!

Completely agree

 

[SuperGoose75]

On 25/04/2022 at 18:36, chrisjpainter said:

 

I think Fury would have beaten any of the older generation. Training and diet play a huge part in conditioning and that's moved on so much since Ali and Foreman were in the ring. And he'd have beaten Mike Tyson and Holyfield, because he moves so well. Lennox Lewis? Now that's a question!

I disagree! I personally don't think Fury would have beaten any of the names I mentioned, and there are others not mentioned who also would have beat Fury IMO Liston,Shavers, Riddick Bowe ect..!

Fury's resume is pretty weak in all honesty.  Got dropped heavy by a small-ish Cruiserweight and only won that fight by using his size and gangly-ness and weight leaning all over the smaller man and wearing him out. (Think what a prime Mike Tyson would have done) Tyson's come forward peek-aboo style would have gotten inside and tore up Fury's body and Fury would be susceptible to deadly uppercuts by a deadly power puncher.

Beat an old 39yr old Vlad in possibly one of the worst HW fights ever encountered to get the belts, which he then vacated and got stripped of the last one for not defending.

His other big wins were against a Basketball player with legs and footwork like a baby giraffe and very little boxing ability, but had freakish punching power.

Credit to Fury for doing what he did! Especially concerning getting clean and back in shape and turning his life around. But I think way too much is made of his movement. He certainly doesn't ''float like a butterfly's like Ali did!

He reminds me of a Joe Bugner type of fighter. I think if Bugner was in the division today he would have done what Fury did against the opposition Fury had fought.On the flip, if Fury was around back in the day of Ali, Shavers ect..he would have a similar results against the greats IMO

Training and diet may have came a long way over the years. But it takes more than that. Even today's modern fighters often go back to ''old-Skool'' training methods like what was done back in the day. ''Chopping wood" ect..! Plus them old school fighters had a hunger and rawness about them that you don't see as much today. Also they were all 15 round fighters back in day which took tremendous preparation to be able to get to the fitness level required. AJ has all the modern dietary and training at his disposal! Does anyone think he could go 15 rnd's  at a pace like Ali/Frazier did? 

It's only fantasy talk and opinions at the end of the day and we will never know for sure. Fury seen the poor state of the modern HW division and he took full advantage of the situation and you can't knock him for that.

 

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by SuperGoose75

[Mice!]

3 hours ago, SuperGoose75 said:

It's only fantasy talk and opinions at the end of the day and we will never know for sure. Fury seen the poor state of the modern HW division and he took full advantage of the situation and you can't knock him for that.

It would certainly have been interesting,  but they can only fight who gets in the ring at the end of the day.

[12gauge82]

4 hours ago, SuperGoose75 said:

I disagree! I personally don't think Fury would have beaten any of the names I mentioned, and there are others not mentioned who also would have beat Fury IMO Liston,Shavers, Riddick Bowe ect..!

Fury's resume is pretty weak in all honesty.  Got dropped heavy by a small-ish Cruiserweight and only won that fight by using his size and gangly-ness and weight leaning all over the smaller man and wearing him out. (Think what a prime Mike Tyson would have done) Tyson's come forward peek-aboo style would have gotten inside and tore up Fury's body and Fury would be susceptible to deadly uppercuts by a deadly power puncher.

Beat an old 39yr old Vlad in possibly one of the worst HW fights ever encountered to get the belts, which he then vacated and got stripped of the last one for not defending.

His other big wins were against a Basketball player with legs and footwork like a baby giraffe and very little boxing ability, but had freakish punching power.

Credit to Fury for doing what he did! Especially concerning getting clean and back in shape and turning his life around. But I think way too much is made of his movement. He certainly doesn't ''float like a butterfly's like Ali did!

He reminds me of a Joe Bugner type of fighter. I think if Bugner was in the division today he would have done what Fury did against the opposition Fury had fought.On the flip, if Fury was around back in the day of Ali, Shavers ect..he would have a similar results against the greats IMO

Training and diet may have came a long way over the years. But it takes more than that. Even today's modern fighters often go back to ''old-Skool'' training methods like what was done back in the day. ''Chopping wood" ect..! Plus them old school fighters had a hunger and rawness about them that you don't see as much today. Also they were all 15 round fighters back in day which took tremendous preparation to be able to get to the fitness level required. AJ has all the modern dietary and training at his disposal! Does anyone think he could go 15 rnd's  at a pace like Ali/Frazier did? 

It's only fantasy talk and opinions at the end of the day and we will never know for sure. Fury seen the poor state of the modern HW division and he took full advantage of the situation and you can't knock him for that.

 

 

What a load of nonsense! 

 

Ali would have been a cruiser weight in todays sport. The other thing that isn't being mentioned is genetics, people are getting bigger. 

Take your pick of any sport and find one that's gone backwards over the last 40 to 50 years, boxings no different, your looking through rose tinted specs, the likes of fury and the klitschkos (during their prime) are/were some of the best boxers to ever walk the planet. 

[Gordon R]

Quote

Ali would have been a cruiser weight in todays sport.

An even bigger load of nonsense. Heavier than Usyk, or Mike Tyson.

Would have love to have seen Ron Lyle or George Foreman in with Fury, Usyk or Joshua. I suspect the oldies would have had an easy night.

[12gauge82]

16 hours ago, Gordon R said:

An even bigger load of nonsense. Heavier than Usyk, or Mike Tyson.

Would have love to have seen Ron Lyle or George Foreman in with Fury, Usyk or Joshua. I suspect the oldies would have had an easy night.

Your just showing your lack of knowledge, Ali fought at between roughly 205lb and 215lb throughout his career, cruiser weight didn't exist for most if not all of his time. He would be tiny by today's standard of heavyweight and cruiser would be a far more natural weight for him today than heavy. 

[Gordon R]

No need to be a patronising idiot. Usyk has deliberately bulked up, as could Ali have done. Mike Tyson was lighter than both by a margin.

By your logic, Mike Tyson should have been a cruiserweight, as would Ron Lyle, Cleveland Williams, Earnie Shavers, Sonny Liston and Deontay wilder.

These are acknowledged as the hardest punchers in heavyweight history.. 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Gordon R

[12gauge82]

4 hours ago, Gordon R said:

No need to be a patronising idiot. Usyk has deliberately bulked up, as could Ali have done. Mike Tyson was lighter than both by a margin.

By your logic, Mike Tyson should have been a cruiserweight, as would Ron Lyle, Cleveland Williams, Earnie Shavers, Sonny Liston and Deontay wilder.

These are acknowledged as the hardest punchers in heavyweight history.. 

If the glove fits and all that. 

 

He could have bulked up and then he'd be the naturally smaller man fighting in a division above him, which is my point, boxing has moved on and the heavyweights of the past couldn't compete with the ones of today, that's not taking anything away from them but sport moves on. 

[ninjaferret]

For my money i want to put you lot in the ring because going by whats been said on here you can all fight better than any of them.......Who's the first for tickets 

[Gordon R]

Quote

If the glove fits and all that. 

You said Ali was too small to compete and should have been a cruiserweight today. The ones I cited were smaller and hit harder than Fury. Your logic doesn't hold water.

What was Deontay Wilder, a cruiserweight by your definition,  doing at heavyweight? Simple question.

[chrisjpainter]

3 hours ago, ninjaferret said:

For my money i want to put you lot in the ring because going by whats been said on here you can all fight better than any of them.......Who's the first for tickets 

LLLLLLLET'S GET READY TO GRUMBLLLLLLLLLE

Edited April 29, 2022 by chrisjpainter

[12gauge82]

7 hours ago, Gordon R said:

You said Ali was too small to compete and should have been a cruiserweight today. The ones I cited were smaller and hit harder than Fury. Your logic doesn't hold water.

What was Deontay Wilder, a cruiserweight by your definition,  doing at heavyweight? Simple question.

You need to take the rose tinted glasses off, Ali would have been very small by today's heavyweight standards, I'm sure he could give anyone in the heavyweight division today a decent fight, but he'd not be at the top of the pile, the sport has moved on. 

Wilder is exceptionally lean, far more so than Ali, he's also a good 4 inches taller with a freakishly heavy punch, without that he'd also be a cruiserweight. 

[Rim Fire]

7 hours ago, chrisjpainter said:

LLLLLLLET'S GET READY TO GRUMBLLLLLLLLLE

🤣🤣🤣👍

[Gordon R]

Quote

 

You need to take the rose tinted glasses off, Ali would have been very small by today's heavyweight standards, I'm sure he could give anyone in the heavyweight division today a decent fight, but he'd not be at the top of the pile, the sport has moved on. 

Wilder is exceptionally lean, far more so than Ali, he's also a good 4 inches taller with a freakishly heavy punch, without that he'd also be a cruiserweight. 

 

You are dodging the question. Should all those named be cruiserweights? Yes or no? I am intrigued as to how height now denotes which category a boxer should fight in. 

It's not rose tinted glasses you need, it's a little more serious than that. 

Feel free to continue, I'm sure your ego will demand it, but I have had enough of your biased rubbish.

Better judges than you or I have declared Ali as the GOAT.

[12gauge82]

3 hours ago, Gordon R said:

You are dodging the question. Should all those named be cruiserweights? Yes or no? I am intrigued as to how height now denotes which category a boxer should fight in. 

It's not rose tinted glasses you need, it's a little more serious than that. 

Feel free to continue, I'm sure your ego will demand it, but I have had enough of your biased rubbish.

Better judges than you or I have declared Ali as the GOAT.

You don't seem to be able to grasp the difference in eras. 

Your trying to compare sportsmen from across the ages, Mike tyson would struggle in todays top tear of the heavyweight division, so in answer to your question, it depends, could Mike Tyson compete with todays heavyweights, sure, would he get to the very top, doubtful. 

[Gordon R]

I rest my case.

[Mice!]

8 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

You don't seem to be able to grasp the difference in eras. 

Your trying to compare sportsmen from across the ages, Mike tyson would struggle in todays top tear of the heavyweight division, so in answer to your question, it depends, could Mike Tyson compete with todays heavyweights, sure, would he get to the very top, doubtful. 

The thing is Tyson finished fights, I'm not sure if he ever had a fight go the distance.

I've still not looked for the Fury highlights yet, but his uppercut was described as the uppercut from hell,  pretty standard for Tyson, duck dodge boom, fight over.

https://www.liveabout.com/mike-tyson-career-record-424338

The idea Mike Tyson couldn't cut it in the current heavy weight division is ridiculous, he was a wrecking ball.

[12gauge82]

7 hours ago, Mice! said:

The thing is Tyson finished fights, I'm not sure if he ever had a fight go the distance.

I've still not looked for the Fury highlights yet, but his uppercut was described as the uppercut from hell,  pretty standard for Tyson, duck dodge boom, fight over.

https://www.liveabout.com/mike-tyson-career-record-424338

The idea Mike Tyson couldn't cut it in the current heavy weight division is ridiculous, he was a wrecking ball.

I'm not saying he couldn't compete but he wouldn't be holding on to any titles, a prime lennox Lewis would beat him, both klitschkos would have beat him, fury would beat him. Like I said, sport moves on, it's rare that it goes backwards. 

8 hours ago, Gordon R said:

I rest my case.

You never had one. 

[Gordon R]

Against my better judgement, I revisited all the weight categories and the weights that heavyweights fought at in the past. Your view of different times, different weights, different diets and training regimes is a simplistic load of rubbish. 

Even more bizarre is your view that Deontay Wilder should have fought at cruiserweight, but for his height. Mike Tyson should have fought as a cruiserweight, despite both being well above the cruiserweight limit. Should they have slimmed down? 

Your posts have backed you into a corner where you feel obliged to defend your rather odd views. There are no facts to back up what you say, merely your simplistic, uninformed, naive view. I genuinely fell sorry for you.

I will post no more on the subject, as there is no point.

 

[12gauge82]

3 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Against my better judgement, I revisited all the weight categories and the weights that heavyweights fought at in the past. Your view of different times, different weights, different diets and training regimes is a simplistic load of rubbish. 

Even more bizarre is your view that Deontay Wilder should have fought at cruiserweight, but for his height. Mike Tyson should have fought as a cruiserweight, despite both being well above the cruiserweight limit. Should they have slimmed down? 

Your posts have backed you into a corner where you feel obliged to defend your rather odd views. There are no facts to back up what you say, merely your simplistic, uninformed, naive view. I genuinely fell sorry for you.

I will post no more on the subject, as there is no point.

 

You've stated a load of nonsense that I haven't said in an attempt to justify your daft argument. 

A conversation with yourself is a bit like a fight between Ali and Fury, and just like Ali would, you've found yourself massively outgunned in nearly every area 😂 

[discobob]

On 30/04/2022 at 21:27, Mice! said:

The idea Mike Tyson couldn't cut it in the current heavy weight division is ridiculous, he was a wrecking ball.

and still is - on a plane 

[Raja Clavata]

On 25/04/2022 at 18:36, chrisjpainter said:

I think Fury would have beaten any of the older generation. Training and diet play a huge part in conditioning and that's moved on so much since Ali and Foreman were in the ring. And he'd have beaten Mike Tyson and Holyfield, because he moves so well. Lennox Lewis? Now that's a question!

FWIW, I agree and TBH I didn't think it would be such a contentious point here.

Undoubtedly Fury vs. Lewis would indeed have been a very interesting encounter. 

Different division but if there was one fight of the ages to choose then for me it'd have to be Canelo vs Calzaghe, now that would have been a banger.