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HSE lead ammo proposals - FAQs and updates


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3 minutes ago, clangerman said:

some people wouldn’t admit they have been sold down the river if they were on a boat might as well give up now unreal! 

All I will say on the matter is that its preferable to be afloat, than sitting underwater telling the tide to go back.....

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1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

This isnt just down to BASC 

what about CPSA? have they said anything?

what about NRA? have they said anything?

what about NSRA? have they said anything?

what about MLAGB? have they said anything?

these proposals will bankrupt every gun shop in the country, virtually every club and clay ground. When they banned handguns about half the gun shops in London area folded. They could still sell shotguns and rifles but their takings went down and they couldn't survive on the reduced turnover  j

That could be the objective?

The final solution to the problem?

A master stroke no doubt fostered from behind the scenes?

Are they going to remove all of the thousands of miles of lead water pipe too?

Edited by old man
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14 minutes ago, PeterHenry said:

All I will say on the matter is that its preferable to be afloat, than sitting underwater telling the tide to go back.....

it’s even more preferable not to jump of a cliff until pushed and fight without your own side shooting you in the back 

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6 minutes ago, clangerman said:

it’s even more preferable not to jump of a cliff until pushed and fight without your own side shooting you in the back 

Not really, if by jumping off in your own time you get to spot where the greater dangers lie below - I would say that is the better of the two options, than falling awkwardly and increasing the chance of injury. But perhaps we would be better returning to nautical analogies? If you are on a sinking ship, are you not better jumping off and trying to swim than standing on deck and having the ship pull you down with it?

Anyway, at this point, after the amount you have banged on about the ineffectiveness of steel shot, I shouldn't think you would be too bothered if you were shot in the back, as steel is going to be what accounts for the majority of our cartridges in the future.....

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I think we all knew this was coming as soon as the eu decided lead was finished. 

There's no point BASC bashing time will tell for them. 

I switched to reloading 20 gauge steel over two years ago now and can honestly say there's no difference for pigeon and vermin shooting.

It will be a real shame if the smaller calibers and lead bullets go as they have there uses as well. 

I saw an article recently if you fire 100 28gram lead loads over a pea field or laid barley which is more than possible that's nearly 3 kilos of lead in one session. 

Just a thought. 

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I would love to know what the experts think the actual area as a percentage  of the UK is contaminated with lead shot. Compared to the area in which lead covers on roofs. Our church roof is nearly flat on the back of the church and Is a good 80ft x 40ft approx. All the gutters from that roof run straight down the drains to a water coarse not 100 yrds away🙏

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4 hours ago, Vince Green said:

This isnt just down to BASC 

what about CPSA? have they said anything?

what about NRA? have they said anything?

what about NSRA? have they said anything?

what about MLAGB? have they said anything?

these proposals will bankrupt every gun shop in the country, virtually every club and clay ground. When they banned handguns about half the gun shops in London area folded. They could still sell shotguns and rifles but their takings went down and they couldn't survive on the reduced turnover  j

I quite agree Vince, BUT it was BASC that has lead the way!

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This will upset many on PW but I have been shooting steel at duck for over a decade and have shot several rounds of clays with a non steel proved Beretta. My average is on par with lead for both, so while it will be a problem with my old 16 bore greener I am not to worried about swooping to steel. Our clay club will have to insist on a paper or quickly degrading wads as we can not have plastic wads but sure that this problem will be overcome. Other countries have had to go down this route and have managed and so will we. I for one will not be packing up because of this. I lost my pistols because of a change in law and this is just a minor problem in comparison.

The end is not nigh

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21 minutes ago, Stimo22 said:

This will upset many on PW but I have been shooting steel at duck for over a decade and have shot several rounds of clays with a non steel proved Beretta. My average is on par with lead for both, so while it will be a problem with my old 16 bore greener I am not to worried about swooping to steel. Our clay club will have to insist on a paper or quickly degrading wads as we can not have plastic wads but sure that this problem will be overcome. Other countries have had to go down this route and have managed and so will we. I for one will not be packing up because of this. I lost my pistols because of a change in law and this is just a minor problem in comparison.

The end is not nigh

But will your clay club be able to survive when faced with a significant reduction in the number of people coming to shoot?

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43 minutes ago, Stimo22 said:

This will upset many on PW but I have been shooting steel at duck for over a decade and have shot several rounds of clays with a non steel proved Beretta. My average is on par with lead for both, so while it will be a problem with my old 16 bore greener I am not to worried about swooping to steel. Our clay club will have to insist on a paper or quickly degrading wads as we can not have plastic wads but sure that this problem will be overcome. Other countries have had to go down this route and have managed and so will we. I for one will not be packing up because of this. I lost my pistols because of a change in law and this is just a minor problem in comparison.

Which other countries have been down this route?

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14 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

But will your clay club be able to survive when faced with a significant reduction in the number of people coming to shoot?

Our duck shoot did not reduce when we switched to steel shot, and don’t think that any of our members will stop shooting because lead will not be available. I don’t think it is necessary but will not pack in because of it

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17 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Which other countries have been down this route?

Obviously your question wasent aimed at me, but having briefly lived there, I have a feeling all lead shot is banned in the Netherlands - even for clays.

Edited by PeterHenry
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10 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Which other countries have been down this route?

Germany, Denmark, Norway cant see the fuss about using steel for clays, so long as its with biodegradable wads so small farms shoots are ok

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9 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Which other countries have been down this route?

Belgium , Holland, Denmark and Germany for most shotgun use, but USA and others including UK for wildfowl. Did many duck shooters pack up when the rules change

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5 hours ago, Whitebridges said:

Same here. This whole ban lead thing is a nonsense. Has anyone tried non lead air rifle pellets? They are hopeless much lighter and can easily put a sub 12ft lb gun over the limit. As for non lead rifle bullets, you're having a laugh BASC !

I quote:

“BASC remains fully committed to the five-year VOLUNTARY transition away from using lead shot for live quarry shooting that has made such significant progress under challenging conditions.

“Given the severity of the proposed restrictions, the VOLUNTARY transition has afforded the sector a head-start in the move away from lead ammunition.”

The key here is VOLUNTARY so I won't get put in jail if I don't comply will I ?  

If the BASC keep pushing this twaddle I won't be paying them a membership fee. I'd rather join a more pragmatic group who are against a lead ban. 

 

Pray tell name a group against a lead ban?

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38 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Which other countries have been down this route?

Finland did I'm told for hunting but are now reversing it. I would not mind paying £3 a round to shoot a deer a couple of times a year like they do but 50 rounds a week on the range is a different story 

27 minutes ago, grahamch said:

 cant see the fuss about using steel for clays

Apart from the cost, neither can I , its the reduction in the number of shooters /  how often they shoot /  how many clays they shoot per visit that will have an impact on the profitability of the shooting grounds 

Edited by Vince Green
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22 minutes ago, grahamch said:

Germany, Denmark, Norway cant see the fuss about using steel for clays, so long as its with biodegradable wads so small farms shoots are ok

in 2014 Norway reversed their lead shot ban and now allow it.

Good to see so many will continue clay shooting when cartridges with biodegradable wads are £400 plus a 1000 and the way clays are going up say 40p per clay.

we are heading that way now, so also allow 10% inflation until the end of any transition period.

 

2 hours ago, mellors said:

 

I switched to reloading 20 gauge steel over two years ago now and can honestly say there's no difference for pigeon and vermin shooting.

Which biodegradable wads are you using for your 20gauge?

 

Edited by rbrowning2
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32 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

in 2014 Norway reversed their lead shot ban and now allow it.

Good to see so many will continue clay shooting when cartridges with biodegradable wads are £400 plus a 1000 and the way clays are going up say 40p per clay.

we are heading that way now, so also allow 10% inflation until the end of any transition period.

 

Which biodegradable wads are you using for your 20gauge?

 

Which biodegradable wads are you using for your 20gauge?. 

Non available yet but there coming.!!!!. 

They say the 20 gauge will do 21 grams of steel plenty for pigeon and vermin. 

Screenshot-2021-06-28-at-14.33.25.png

Edited by mellors
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3 minutes ago, mellors said:

Which biodegradable wads are you using for your 20gauge?. 

Non available yet but there coming.!!!!. 

so you criticise using lead shot but are happy to litter with plastic wads which will be around for hundreds of years.

Why are you not using the Eley VIP pro-eco in steel at around £410 per 1000 or the Eley VIP in bismuth at around £1440 per 1000 as you obviously care passionately about the environment.

 

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12 minutes ago, mellors said:

Which biodegradable wads are you using for your 20gauge?. 

Non available yet but there coming.!!!!. 

They say the 20 gauge will do 21 grams of steel plenty for pigeon and vermin. 

Screenshot-2021-06-28-at-14.33.25.png

 

Doubt the wads will be available for reloading, so begs the question what price will they be compared to the other choices.

 

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37 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

so you criticise using lead shot but are happy to litter with plastic wads which will be around for hundreds of years.

Why are you not using the Eley VIP pro-eco in steel at around £410 per 1000 or the Eley VIP in bismuth at around £1440 per 1000 as you obviously care passionately about the environment.

 

At no point did i criticise. 

The post merely said I'd switched to steel and found it does the job equally as well. 

I never mentioned the environment i agree we're littering with plastic wads and have been for many years but fibre wad development is moving on apace and I'm sure they will be available at some point. 

Yes i do care about the environment as do most of us. 

If we don't start to show we're doing are best in all areas. As we are a very small minority then there will be no future for our sport. 

 

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was at the northern shoot show just gone and there was a small stand called Vouzelaud ammunition, touting some ammo thats currently getting developed in europe.

its £200 a slab so its very expensive but the bloke just said its early days. main issues theyve alread cracked are its  steel, its bio,  and it can be fired through any choke and its standard pressure.   and the bloke said they shift in the region of 1300 fps for an ounce of steel 3s.

https://www.livequarrysteel.com/

main thing i took away from it is  once these kind of solutions and tech become common place (which they are very quickly) economy of scale and competition will  see the prices get to a point that the margins are small. 

i mean damascus is still a no go, but  damascus has been on borrowed time  since smokless became common place.  eventually were gona have to just  come to the  understanding thats its not a particularly good metal  for gun barrels however pretty it can be its been in its twilight for 100+ years. put them in a museum already and not on a peg

Edited by Sweet11-87
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