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HSE lead ammo proposals - FAQs and updates


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5 hours ago, PeterHenry said:

I've been using d3o for years. It's really quite fascinating behind the science! I use it in ski pants to protect my coccyx, and I assure you it has prevented serious injury! 
It'd be perfect for recoil reduction, I am surprised we haven't seen it more in the sport. 

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21 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

So electric cars are responsible for the death of shooting?

Well we Basc probably use them 🙄

and it’s just about the only reason I can see for the whole fiasco 

it’s not going to increase the sale of game that’s for sure 

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3 hours ago, Smudger687 said:

I've said this in another thread but will repeat here. 

I spoke to a BASC representative at an evening event and asked them what prompted BASC to announce, apropo of nothing, that they wanted the entire industry to move away from lead. I was told that the primary pressure was that Europe takes most of our game meat, and that they don't want it containing lead.

When I asked why BASC wasn't content to simply let the market take care of it i.e. Europe doesn't want lead shot game, so the game shoots impose their own steel shot rules or sell the game elsewhere, they stated that many of the smaller commercial shoots would go out of business if left to their own devices.

In other words, BASC has prioritised the commercial driven shoots and their...more affluent clientele, and have shafted everyone else (again). 

All of the arguments that BASC have given regarding the toxicity and the environmental damage caused by lead (which may well be true), played little to no part in the decision to move away from lead, and are simply being used to retroactively justify their actions. 

@Conor O'Gorman- You know, Conor, BASC can't have it both ways. You can't publicly announce that lead is toxic, that steel is just as good, then oppose measures to ban all forms of lead ammunition. You've completely removed all grounds by which to argue against a legislative lead ban by doing so. 

Thanks @Smudger687

The strategic decision for the shooting organisations to encourage a voluntary transition away from lead shot and single use plastics in shotgun cartridges for live quarry shooting is explained here:

https://basc.org.uk/a-joint-statement-on-the-future-of-shotgun-ammunition-for-live-quarry-shooting/

And the latest update is here:

https://basc.org.uk/the-lead-shot-transition-solid-progress-on-the-ground/

The evidence has been analysed by scientists at GWCT and continues to be analysed. It's here:

https://www.gwct.org.uk/advisory/lead-ammunition/

The restriction proposals announced last week go too far, we have been clear about that, and we will challenge them in our response and there will be updates on that. We have also been clear that if after this consultation and others to come that we are not happy with the findings and recommendations that are submitted to the secretary of state, that we will challenge that. 

A summary timeline of events so far:

  • BASC has been fighting lead ammunition bans since they were first proposed in a 1983 Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution report.
  • The European Chemicals Agency has been reviewing the use of lead ammunition since 2011 and BASC has been supporting the European Federation of Hunting Associations (FACE) in fighting these proposals.
  • In 2016, after a lengthy campaign by BASC and other shooting organisations , the UK government rejected proposals for a lead ban, , with the Secretary of State noting that the findings of the Lead Ammunition Group did not show the impacts of lead ammunition were significant enough to justify changing government policy.
  • In 2021, proposals to ban lead ammunition in the European Union were published under EU REACH along similar lines to what has recently been proposed by the Health and Safety Executive under UK REACH for England, Wales and Scotland.
  • BASC is working with FACE to challenge the EU REACH proposals and working with UK shooting organisations to challenge the UK REACH proposals.

Further details around this are in the updates and FAQs on BASC's website here:

www.basc.org.uk/lead/

 

 

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10 hours ago, chesterse said:

How much harm is lead actually doing?

Doesn’t it all pale into insignificance when you consider the devastation going on in Ukraine?

Absolutely none.

4 hours ago, Scully said:

Eh?  Where have you got that info’ from?

Game shooters don’t struggle with ‘cost’, and never have. Many things may end game shooting, but cost won’t be one of them. 

I am, shoot fees have nearly doubled this year and if it stays the same it will be my last season as I can't justify the cost.

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7 hours ago, Rob85 said:

So if this all goes ahead I take it I may as well run my 22lr remington through a bandsaw? Does reasonable priced 22lr in non lead that is accurate to 100yards exist?

Mine will be going up on the wall as obsolete calibres.

I just hope some sense is seen soon

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10 hours ago, Old farrier said:

Dosent matter how much money you have if the shoot can’t get any bird’s this year 

have you found any alternative days at a competitive price?

Point one: I don’t have, and have never had a lot of money. What I do have I spend on shooting.

Point two: the shoot where I go most often is a partridge shoot and will be unable to run next season. We are still waiting for confirmation that our two provisional days are able to go ahead as usual on another shoot we use. I have booked the team a pheasant only day on a place they have never been but where I shot as a guest last season.

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12 hours ago, Sweet11-87 said:

i think youre right.... i do a fair bit of shooting from PSG to pigeon and honestly maybe 1 in 10 is under 50. i think in the next 20 years as folks pass on or just get too long in the tooth we will see a sharp decline in shooters

I belong to several clubs and the average age is over 50. well over in some instances. More significantly in some ways, all the committee members are getting on. Mostly because there is nobody willing to take over from them

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8 hours ago, Rob85 said:

So if this all goes ahead I take it I may as well run my 22lr remington through a bandsaw? Does reasonable priced 22lr in non lead that is accurate to 100yards exist?

I'm told its not bad but about £9 a box at the moment, Hopefully that will come down. Its a much lighter bullet though so prospects for long range accuracy is not good.

what firing zinc bullets is going to do to the barrel over time remains to be seen.  

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14 hours ago, HantsRob said:

I've been using d3o for years. It's really quite fascinating behind the science! I use it in ski pants to protect my coccyx, and I assure you it has prevented serious injury! 
It'd be perfect for recoil reduction, I am surprised we haven't seen it more in the sport. 

I've got to say, I am a big fan - I do think that there is a bit of a macho thing about recoil, but if something improves my shooting, I'm all for it

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11 hours ago, Rob85 said:

So if this all goes ahead I take it I may as well run my 22lr remington through a bandsaw? Does reasonable priced 22lr in non lead that is accurate to 100yards exist?

No same as none lead airgun pellets.

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21 hours ago, Old farrier said:

If you don’t mind me asking what weight is your aya no 2 

apreciate the thought of the shoulder pad and am considering it maybe have to have the stock altered to compensate for the extra thickness 

another aspect of course is the recoil through the gun and the possibility of the stock splitting 

 

 

Sorry, I should added - the pad is thin enough so that I haven't noticed any need to have my guns refitted. Also, the Lylvale 30g '5' earthwads are very light on recoil as it is - no need for a recoil pad with them, and certainly no concern of a broken stock.

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11 hours ago, Rob85 said:

So if this all goes ahead I take it I may as well run my 22lr remington through a bandsaw? Does reasonable priced 22lr in non lead that is accurate to 100yards exist?

More to the point where are you going to be able to buy it from? This will finish off most of the gun shops

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Lead occurs naturally in the UK and in large amounts.

The Romans mined it extensively and there were still at least eight working mines in Cornwall in the 1700s.

It's still mined today in the Pennines  region. 

How does this legislation make sense? 

Where is the great environmental disaster?

Edited by Vince Green
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5 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Lead occurs naturally in the UK and in large amounts.

The Romans mined it extensively and there were still at least eight working mines in Cornwall in the 1700s.

It's still mined today in the Pennines  region. 

How does this legislation make sense? 

Seeking a link between common sense and legislation is a sure way to insanity?

It seems obvious that there has to be a reason behind this bizarre scenario?

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1 hour ago, old man said:

Seeking a link between common sense and legislation is a sure way to insanity?

It seems obvious that there has to be a reason behind this bizarre scenario?

It's extremely interesting that these proposals are coming from the Health and Safety executive.

Their remit covers health and safety in the workplace. 

It doesn't cover the Environment or Food Standards. Both of which are separate Agencies.

Very strange, what's it to them?

Edited by Vince Green
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34 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

It's extremely interesting that these proposals are coming from the Health and Safety executive.

Their remit covers health and safety in the workplace. 

It doesn't cover the Environment or Food Standards. Both of which are separate Agencies.

Very strange, what's it to them?

It will all eventually come under the Game Alliance scheme as it has in agricultures  Red Tractor scheme. Then in the long term become a new department in DEFRA, Food and Fisheries etc, stricter controls, MORE compulsory regulation training etc. there for more, alot more expense.It will be endless regulation, comply or no shooting

 

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2 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Lead occurs naturally in the UK and in large amounts.

The Romans mined it extensively and there were still at least eight working mines in Cornwall in the 1700s.

It's still mined today in the Pennines  region. 

How does this legislation make sense? 

Where is the great environmental disaster?

I live in what was a lead mining area.  In the village, those born here tend to live to a ripe old age. I know several, and they know of no one who has died of lead poisoning.

Despite this when a new build is put up the top 300mm of soil must be removed due to "lead pollution" and treated as hazardous waste. 

They can still buy and consume produce grown locally.

Go figure?

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Well up here in County Durham there’s a disused lead mine up at kilop it’s now and has been for many years a visitor centre and museum where you can go down to the face where lead was mined work that one out talking my mate who is a farmer about the lead ban and he said you can test land where ever you go and there are traces of lead he was going mad about it being a bow down to Europe yet again 

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