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Govt one off giveaways


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3 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, there will always be an element of people on universal credit not wanting to work and exploiting the system but the vast majority are in genuine  need, 

This is where I have a problem with the benefits system Gordon.  I hear how hard it is for people on benefits , and that they're struggling to eat and pay bills , but , I see with my own eyes , people on benefits that have at least one foreign holiday every year , spend lots of time in the pub , and driving better cars than I drive , and they all seem to have a 40" telly hanging on the wall , with sky subscriptions etc . I just can't see how that can be classed as struggling. 

I know quite a few people on benefits , and they all appear to be equally well off , or better off , than me . I'm not in the slightest bit jealous,  but it can't be right for someone on benefits , to be better off than someone in full time employment. 

I'm a great believer in the welfare system.  It's what separates civilised people from savages , but it seems that its gone too far .

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4 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

This is where I have a problem with the benefits system Gordon.  I hear how hard it is for people on benefits , and that they're struggling to eat and pay bills , but , I see with my own eyes , people on benefits that have at least one foreign holiday every year , spend lots of time in the pub , and driving better cars than I drive , and they all seem to have a 40" telly hanging on the wall , with sky subscriptions etc . I just can't see how that can be classed as struggling. 

I know quite a few people on benefits , and they all appear to be equally well off , or better off , than me . I'm not in the slightest bit jealous,  but it can't be right for someone on benefits , to be better off than someone in full time employment. 

I'm a great believer in the welfare system.  It's what separates civilised people from savages , but it seems that its gone too far .

 

 

this post seems to be right on the button.

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22 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

This is where I have a problem with the benefits system Gordon.  I hear how hard it is for people on benefits , and that they're struggling to eat and pay bills , but , I see with my own eyes , people on benefits that have at least one foreign holiday every year , spend lots of time in the pub , and driving better cars than I drive , and they all seem to have a 40" telly hanging on the wall , with sky subscriptions etc . I just can't see how that can be classed as struggling. 

I know quite a few people on benefits , and they all appear to be equally well off , or better off , than me . I'm not in the slightest bit jealous,  but it can't be right for someone on benefits , to be better off than someone in full time employment. 

I'm a great believer in the welfare system.  It's what separates civilised people from savages , but it seems that its gone too far .

I agree Mell, I have posted on here before about my wife's friend. I got lambasted by certain people about it. She decided last week that she wanted to go away - is now in France visiting the grave of her daughters dad (who never paid a penny for her) - tickets alone cost over £600 as they have gone via train/Eurostar and last minute bookings. She is Mortgage free - having paid a mortgage for 16 years while only working the minimum hours - she now works 30 hours because her daughter is 20 this year but working 30 means she is still entitled to benefits - The daughter gets paid £50 a week to go to college as well which is a private college that helps people get into the military (but she has no chance) and it is funded by the government for each student. Last moth they went up to Edinburgh to the Harry Potter thing up there - that was £300 on train tickets again.

But it just isn't her, there are members of my wife's family who like to "exist" allowing the benefits system to take up the slack - they have more holidays than us, and newer car's than us.

Do they have more money in the bank than us - no - but they know because they are in the system they have a safety net. Whereas I know that if something happens we will lose everything before there is even a safety net in sight. 

 

I will also add in my half-brother who I was estranged from and who passed last year and never worked with the exception of 3 months in the Army - and he ended up with a war pension when the injury he had was actually caused before he started basic training.

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38 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

This is where I have a problem with the benefits system Gordon.  I hear how hard it is for people on benefits , and that they're struggling to eat and pay bills , but , I see with my own eyes , people on benefits that have at least one foreign holiday every year , spend lots of time in the pub , and driving better cars than I drive , and they all seem to have a 40" telly hanging on the wall , with sky subscriptions etc . I just can't see how that can be classed as struggling. 

I know quite a few people on benefits , and they all appear to be equally well off , or better off , than me . I'm not in the slightest bit jealous,  but it can't be right for someone on benefits , to be better off than someone in full time employment. 

I'm a great believer in the welfare system.  It's what separates civilised people from savages , but it seems that its gone too far .

 

33 minutes ago, mossy835 said:

 

 

this post seems to be right on the button.

Whilst I don't doubt that there will be evidence of this I doubt it's as common as people imagine.

This handout is another Tory fiasco. For the last two weeks they have voted against the Labour proposal for a windfall tax. Indeed they were whipped against it. Now two weeks later after the Sue Grey report they are falling over themselves to squander cash throwing it at at the public regardless of need. Ill thought out payment of Alms. What a waste. The sooner they are gone the better. 

 

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It seems the Yanks have Johnson and Sunak sussed, the Wall Street Journal really slating them for this weeks Tax and Spending announcement and lack of action to cut Green sunsidies that are a main cause of inflation, 25% of our bills.  I tried a link but it isn't working. We need to attack the causes of inflation not just print money, this pair are a real danger to the UK economy.

 

 

 
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1 hour ago, mossy835 said:

 

 

this post seems to be right on the button.

Seconded

13 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said:

Yes

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1 hour ago, mel b3 said:

This is where I have a problem with the benefits system Gordon.  I hear how hard it is for people on benefits , and that they're struggling to eat and pay bills , but , I see with my own eyes , people on benefits that have at least one foreign holiday every year , spend lots of time in the pub , and driving better cars than I drive , and they all seem to have a 40" telly hanging on the wall , with sky subscriptions etc . I just can't see how that can be classed as struggling. 

I know quite a few people on benefits , and they all appear to be equally well off , or better off , than me . I'm not in the slightest bit jealous,  but it can't be right for someone on benefits , to be better off than someone in full time employment. 

I'm a great believer in the welfare system.  It's what separates civilised people from savages , but it seems that its gone too far .

Hello Mel, I understand what you mean and I see this my self , I thought the government were going to stop this but oblivious it's not on the agenda yet

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51 minutes ago, oowee said:

 

Whilst I don't doubt that there will be evidence of this I doubt it's as common as people imagine.

This handout is another Tory fiasco. For the last two weeks they have voted against the Labour proposal for a windfall tax. Indeed they were whipped against it. Now two weeks later after the Sue Grey report they are falling over themselves to squander cash throwing it at at the public regardless of need. Ill thought out payment of Alms. What a waste. The sooner they are gone the better. 

 

Again Grant , this is where I struggle to get my head around it , because everyone that I know personally on benefits,  is doing very very well out of it , and the only people that I see struggling financially,  are the ones that are in employment . Most of the guys that I work with ( and have worked with for years) , are agency staff with zero guaranteed hours . Should they take a sick day , or get laid off by the council for a couple of days (this happens regularly),  they're left with less than the people on benefits.  They are eligible to claim benefits as a top up ,  but none of them ever do as the system is set up to make it very difficult for them to claim .

I have to agree that the tory handout is a complete fiasco , but I do understand why they have to hand the cash out to everyone,  as it would be too costly to set up a system where it was only handed out to those that need it . 

I'm a little bit of a leftie ( in most ways ) , and I'm a labour voter(whenever I can be ) , but I shudder to think what the likes of corbyn and abbot would have done to the country had Labour won at the last General election . I'm no tory fan , but I'm like millions of other people in this country , and had no other choice but to vote for them , and to be honest , I can't see that the options will be much better next time around.

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10 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello Mel, I understand what you mean and I see this my self , I thought the government were going to stop this but oblivious it's not on the agenda yet

In all honesty Gordon,  I can't see that any government will ever be able to stop it now.

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51 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

Again Grant , this is where I struggle to get my head around it , because everyone that I know personally on benefits,  is doing very very well out of it , and the only people that I see struggling financially,  are the ones that are in employment . Most of the guys that I work with ( and have worked with for years) , are agency staff with zero guaranteed hours . Should they take a sick day , or get laid off by the council for a couple of days (this happens regularly),  they're left with less than the people on benefits.  They are eligible to claim benefits as a top up ,  but none of them ever do as the system is set up to make it very difficult for them to claim .

I have to agree that the tory handout is a complete fiasco , but I do understand why they have to hand the cash out to everyone,  as it would be too costly to set up a system where it was only handed out to those that need it . 

I'm a little bit of a leftie ( in most ways ) , and I'm a labour voter(whenever I can be ) , but I shudder to think what the likes of corbyn and abbot would have done to the country had Labour won at the last General election . I'm no tory fan , but I'm like millions of other people in this country , and had no other choice but to vote for them , and to be honest , I can't see that the options will be much better next time around.

On the one hand you know these people that are doing well on benefits and on the other say how difficult it is to make a claim. I am not sure how some can do well making claims and I certainly hope its a minority? Maybe we should spend more on investigation but I would rather that money be spent on investigating corrupt business particularly in the self employed sector. As an employee most of my life I feel that I have paid more than my fair share of tax :lol:

 

The likes of Corbyn and Abbot are a waste of resources. Unfortunately we lack credible opposition to the looneys at the helm. As is the way of these things they will no doubt continue to go from crisis to crisis until the public vote for something else. It would be great to see someone come forward with a credible proposition to take the country forward. Unfortunately we are all too happy to vote against something tangible in favor of something undefined in the hope it will be better (Brexit being the classic example). In the end we get what we deserve.  `

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10 hours ago, Vince Green said:

The problem lies in sorting out the real cases. Plus we have no incentive for the "lazy" civil service to query applications. If they get a pile on their desk and rubber stamp the whole lot they are done in an hour and can go back to their crossword or sake an extended lunch.

If they have to start writing letter and querying things then it starts to look like lots of work.

My cousin, now retired, worked for the (then) DHSS in Liverpool the whole of her working life. An interesting job, but they were not allowed to call anyone a liar even if they clearly were. So when people walked in wearing paint splattered overalls to sign on every week nothing was said. 

Years ago one local to us had to employ security and glass screens.

Good to know we sit on millions of tons of energy but the powers to be would let the populace freeze to death, says it all to me.

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1 hour ago, oowee said:

On the one hand you know these people that are doing well on benefits and on the other say how difficult it is to make a claim. I am not sure how some can do well making claims and I certainly hope its a minority? Maybe we should spend more on investigation but I would rather that money be spent on investigating corrupt business particularly in the self employed sector. As an employee most of my life I feel that I have paid more than my fair share of tax :lol:

 

The likes of Corbyn and Abbot are a waste of resources. Unfortunately we lack credible opposition to the looneys at the helm. As is the way of these things they will no doubt continue to go from crisis to crisis until the public vote for something else. It would be great to see someone come forward with a credible proposition to take the country forward. Unfortunately we are all too happy to vote against something tangible in favor of something undefined in the hope it will be better (Brexit being the classic example). In the end we get what we deserve.  `

They struggle to make claims because they're working people , and don't know how to navigate the benefits system . It's made particularly difficult for them when they're told to come back another day (they'll probably be working another day, and can't afford to lose any more wages), so they just don't claim. Trust me , I've seen this every day for years , and I've lost count of the times I've bought lunch for one of the lads because he was flat broke because he'd been laid off for a few days , and had to chose between food and rent . it's not great when many on benefits will be sitting in wetherspoons having a couple of pints with their full English. 

A few years ago , the target for some of the guys was to have three kids , because once they had three kids , benefits were higher than their wages , and they could walk away from a working life . That just can't be right Grant.

I'd be more than happy to see individuals investigated , that are fleecing the state , and I'd be even more happy to see big business investigated if they were fleecing the state .

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1 hour ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, I think your right Mel, the DWP need more people to combat fraud, how's the 410 coming along, did you find a silencer ?

Nothing has turned up yet Gordon.  I've been having a look to see if it's possible to make one safely.

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1 hour ago, mel b3 said:

Nothing has turned up yet Gordon.  I've been having a look to see if it's possible to make one safely.

Hello Mel, I have one in 12 bore I still have to fit on an old single BSA 12 , I would think they are the same, have you seen those on the hushpower web site, cheers

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4 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello Mel, I have one in 12 bore I still have to fit on an old single BSA 12 , I would think they are the same, have you seen those on the hushpower web site, cheers

I've seen them Gordon.  It's the cost that's off-putting.

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Over the years I've known - and still know - people claiming benefits. This includes several elderly people receiving pension credits. Not a single one of any of them has been honest about savings, medical conditions such as bad back or depression, and the younger ones are busily working under the radar doing things like gardening for £500 per day or cleaning etc. The older ones typically hide their savings to meet the means testing requirements because once on pension credits they automatically receive housing benefit and council tax relief as well as free eye care and free dentist etc. My wife has an elderly friend on pension credits who buys new shoes about once a month and it flying off to Canada in a couple of weeks to visit her son. Another old lady had a visit from social services after she was widowed. At the time she didn't know what her income would be beyond her own partial state pension. Her visitor filled in the claim form and advised her to ensure that she keep her bank account under £20K. When she found out that she was entitled to half her husband's pensions plus an insurance pay-out she rang the DWP to tell them she no longer qualified. The operator laughed and said "Once you're on pension credits you're on for life, even if you win the lottery". So even people who try to honest are fiddling the system because of the way it's set up.

Funnily enough the old lady really did win £60K on the lottery a couple of years later.

Put simply I cannot think of any benefits claimant I've ever known who wasn't either playing the system or fiddling it - and often both - and don't get me started on the 10s of thousands of tradesmen, probably the overwhelming majority and including a good number I know personally, who claimed furlough money but never missed a day's work throughout the lockdowns.

Back on topic, I read a few days ago that we've got more gas in the country now than we need as we have 3 purpose built LPG tanker terminals and in fact we've been supplying gas to the EU who only have 2 terminals. The nett result is that the wholesale price of gas is currently very low, lower in fact than it was before the last rounds of huge price rises. As the energy companies buy 6 months ahead they will soon start to make eye watering profits as there's no sign of prices falling back to 2021 levels during this year.

I'm a free market believer at heart and normally anything but a lefty, but someone needs to get grip on the regulator and make them force the consumer gas price down to an acceptable level.

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50 minutes ago, Westward said:

I read a few days ago that we've got more gas in the country now than we need as we have 3 purpose built LPG tanker terminals and in fact we've been supplying gas to the EU who only have 2 terminals. The nett result is that the wholesale price of gas is currently very low

I believe the problem we have with gas is that we have very little storage.  We have worked on a 'just in time' basis for gas imports and have enough terminal capacity for peak winter demand.  But we only have storage capacity for 2% of our annual usage (less than 5 days in winter).  Hence we always need to have a regular supply arriving and passing through the terminals.  Most of the rest of Europe has much more storage (about 25% of annual demand I believe) but few terminals as they have relied on gas being piped in from Russia rather than shipped in by tanker (as we have).

Whilst gas may be cheap now - we have no means to store it  ........ and I imagine the 'buy forward price' for the winter isn't cheap.

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Whilst I don't doubt that there will be evidence of this I doubt it's as common as people imagine.

Correct. It is far more common. Whilst the number of people committing fraud might be smaller than the public perception, the scale of the fraud committed by fraudsters is far more than the public will ever know. People tend to think of fraudsters in terms of hundreds of pounds, or even thousands. Serious fraudsters defraud in the hundreds of thousands and even millions.

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