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I was going to lie down on the runway to stop the Rwanda deportations...


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1 minute ago, oowee said:

👍 I can understand how you feel. I can also see why many feel the same way and in desperation look for any remedy. Its a bit like snake oil. It's simply another distraction that will make zero difference.

We have to tackle the root cause not the symptoms. 

If it’s just a distraction that will make no difference then there’s no real reason for people to object to it, while we tackle the root cause……which is? 

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42 minutes ago, Scully said:

If it’s just a distraction that will make no difference then there’s no real reason for people to object to it, while we tackle the root cause……which is? 

We simply have no coherent policy for dealing with immigration or refugees, its a shambles.

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6 minutes ago, oowee said:

We simply have no coherent policy for dealing with immigration or refugees, its a shambles.

I’m not aware of any country having a coherent policy, but either way, that’s not a ‘root cause’ of illegal immigration. 
You said we needed to tackle the ‘root cause’, which is?

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23 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’m not aware of any country having a coherent policy, but either way, that’s not a ‘root cause’ of illegal immigration. 
You said we needed to tackle the ‘root cause’, which is?

No policy.

There will always be migration illegal or otherwise. The boats are in the channel because there is no policy to deal with migration, hence the boats. Trying to hurt the people that come across with tags or deportation is dealing with the wrong end of the issue.

The govt is hog tied by undeliverable promises , and the likes of Farage whipping up hysteria on the sidelines, making them unable to level with the public. Add to that at best a three year term in office, a donkey at the top and it's obvious nothing is going to change.

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11 minutes ago, oowee said:

No policy.

There will always be migration illegal or otherwise. The boats are in the channel because there is no policy to deal with migration, hence the boats. Trying to hurt the people that come across with tags or deportation is dealing with the wrong end of the issue.

The govt is hog tied by undeliverable promises , and the likes of Farage whipping up hysteria on the sidelines, making them unable to level with the public. Add to that at best a three year term in office, a donkey at the top and it's obvious nothing is going to change.

Just out of interest do you have children? If so will their only option for a home be social housing?

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1 hour ago, oowee said:

No policy.

There will always be migration illegal or otherwise. The boats are in the channel because there is no policy to deal with migration, hence the boats. Trying to hurt the people that come across with tags or deportation is dealing with the wrong end of the issue.

The govt is hog tied by undeliverable promises , and the likes of Farage whipping up hysteria on the sidelines, making them unable to level with the public. Add to that at best a three year term in office, a donkey at the top and it's obvious nothing is going to change.

Eh? You can’t have it both ways! 😀

You claim the ‘root cause’ of illegal migration is that we don’t have a policy to deal with it, but that there will always be illegal immigration anyhow! 
We certainly have a policy for legal immigration, and it must work because most are here and working rather than laying dead in the back of a truck or washed up on a beach.
We also have a policy of rescuing illegals, unless footage of RNLI and Navy boats landing illegals is fake news, so what policy is it that should be in place which prevents illegal immigration? 
We often tag British people who have acted illegally, so I fail to see why those from another country whom have done the same should be treat differently.
I’d suggest there are more agendas at play than this governments own promises that have it hog tied. 

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Not sure i follow your thoughts.

 

It is not illegal to land in the UK and ask for asylum. There are clearly many economic migrants on the boats but 61% of these potential migrants (data to 2021)  are recognised as refugees and allowed to settle in UK. Why would we want to tag innocent people? Why are the refugees risking their lives to cross when they could go through agreed channels to settle here? 

There are policy documents that set out the plan but there are such small resources that the policy as described is not delivered. 

 

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25 minutes ago, oowee said:

Why are the refugees risking their lives to cross when they could go through agreed channels to settle here? 

Read that back to yourself, about 5 times. 

It's because agreed channels won't let them in, because they don't qualify. 

They don't qualify because they aren't genuine refugees, they are economic migrants. 

They would rather risk that sea crossing, and take their chances with the asylum process, once they are already in this country. 

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7 hours ago, oowee said:

I would agree. There is though a balance on what the people want. Democracy requires minority rights as much as it requires majority rule. 

To control it we need a process of management. What we will allow what we wont allow. It has to be sufficiently resourced so that those allowed can come here. It has to be clear what will happen with those that come illegally.  There has to be resources to assist those we want to settle. 

Above all it must be evidence based, clearly set out and a reasoned process. 

I absolutely agree with that and it's the other end of the issue. We don't have a decent policy in place to deal with genuine refugees. 

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9 hours ago, oowee said:

 

Lots of unfounded rhetoric designed to whip up fear and anxiety such as :-

Migration will imperil the future of our civilisation. 

Believes in the New World Order theory.

Breaking point poster.

Concerned at living next door to a romanian.

100000 migrants could cross the channel 

Parts of britain are like a foreign land. 

Proposing to end multiculturalism in UK.

EU migrants penniless ill educated thieves and opportunists.

Sounds pretty extreme to me when it encourages hatred. Beliefs that are incompatible with multi cultural civilisation. Rather like Trump you could say.

Try this conclusion from a study of Farage 'language and gesture' from Lancaster and Birmingham University,

Our analysis, thus, points to gesture as a significant semiotic resource relied on in discursive constructions of prejudice and in the legitimation of discriminatory action. CDA identifies a range of specific rhetorical moves fundamental to the communication of prejudice and the legitimation of discrimination and exclusion, including denial, othering, proximisation and quantification.

ref https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/09579265211048560

At first glance I have a sound reply to these points. I used to respect the intellectual rigour and experience you had on a number of matters but I'm sorry, it now just seems, er, less so. Of course, some people are more affected by these events than others.....

Edited by yod dropper
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1 hour ago, oowee said:

There are clearly many economic migrants on the boats but 61% of these potential migrants (data to 2021)  are recognised as refugees and allowed to settle in UK.

 Here's a 60% statistic.

When those twenty odd people drowned this year the French authorities said 60% of them had been living in Belgium for several (8?) years.

Economic migrants, not refugees.

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4 hours ago, oowee said:

We simply have no coherent policy for dealing with immigration or refugees, its a shambles.

I watched David Blunkett last night from when he was Home Secretary back when you have said we had 'sensible government' and he spoke of the 'tens of millions' who wished to come to the UK and the 'impossible situation' Priti Patel is in. At least the man has pragmatism and empathy.

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5 hours ago, yod dropper said:

At first glance I have a sound reply to these points. I used to respect the intellectual rigour and experience you had on a number of matters but I'm sorry, it now just seems, er, less so. Of course, some people are more affected by these events than others.....

My thoughts exactly, ivory towers and all that...

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8 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Read that back to yourself, about 5 times. 

It's because agreed channels won't let them in, because they don't qualify. 

They don't qualify because they aren't genuine refugees, they are economic migrants. 

They would rather risk that sea crossing, and take their chances with the asylum process, once they are already in this country. 

Over 60% are genuine refugees and asylum seekers and are allowed to settle. They risk there lives because the official channels are simply not available to them. 

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55 minutes ago, oowee said:

Over 60% are genuine refugees and asylum seekers and are allowed to settle. They risk there lives because the official channels are simply not available to them. 

in short if you can’t have what you want break the law to get it how selfish is that! 

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Berth a vessel near to were these people are crossing via inflatables arrest them detain them on-board the vessel when it's full sail to wranda let them be processed  . If in a few months time they cross again by the same means , then someone is funding them . Let it be known world wide that this is the process  we are dealing with these people . 

Catching these smuggler gangs , someone else will just step into there place .

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18 minutes ago, clangerman said:

in short if you can’t have what you want break the law to get it how selfish is that! 

yup agree with that...we in this country our lives are governed by the law ...by which we all (mostly ) abide by....yet we give sucure and rights to people who are outside the law

so not right

if some folk arrived at our borders with proof of who they are and where they come from and the danger they face in their own country..............there is not a single person on PW who would deny them access to safety

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9 minutes ago, ditchman said:

yup agree with that...we in this country our lives are governed by the law ...by which we all (mostly ) abide by....yet we give sucure and rights to people who are outside the law

so not right

if some folk arrived at our borders with proof of who they are and where they come from and the danger they face in their own country..............there is not a single person on PW who would deny them access to safety

Absolutely spot on

The EU is one of the biggest culprits to my mind, if they registered them in the first country they are detected, it would be the first step in identifying if these people were genuine refugees. But they encourage the issue by each country turning a blind eye to them passing through and becoming someone else's problem. 

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36 minutes ago, clangerman said:

take it none of you are coming to Bristol’s current refugee festival then celebration help advice assistance everything you need IF your a refugee or migrant lol 

Meet on 'The Packet if you are about on Monday around 1315. 

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I see the economic migrants as being organised and funded as part of a political agenda by people hoping to undo Brexit by engineering part of what is required so that it has 'failed' - as a result of shenanigans on the part of EU or some other protectionist body.

I profess to also feeling that some of the Irish issue is being stymied for the same reason - but cannot get my slightly autistic brain around that to be fair.

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3 hours ago, Dave-G said:

I see the economic migrants as being organised and funded as part of a political agenda by people hoping to undo Brexit by engineering part of what is required so that it has 'failed' - as a result of shenanigans on the part of EU or some other protectionist body.

I profess to also feeling that some of the Irish issue is being stymied for the same reason - but cannot get my slightly autistic brain around that to be fair.

If your looking for a Brexit benefit its not easy to see other than higher migration rates for skilled workers, we don't pay membership fees and greater control.  Try this, 

 

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