Chaos at Dover again

[Mungler]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

We left. Remember? 

 

Yes, and so what?

Does "leaving" make my observation about the needlessness of paper and physical stamps or French border control under staffing or a thousand years of national discontent any less correct?

I am quite pleased at the queues because:

1. I am not so stupid as to be sat in them

2. the French (as too the Spanish) will feel it next year with a reduction in tourist numbers

3. this pettiness helps remind everyone that we've never got on (historical fact)

 

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Advantage Mungler!   

[Penelope]

3 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Advantage Mungler!   

😆

[oowee]

6 minutes ago, Mungler said:

 

Yes, and so what?

Does "leaving" make my observation about the needlessness of paper and physical stamps or French border control under staffing or a thousand years of national discontent any less correct?

I am quite pleased at the queues because:

1. I am not so stupid as to be sat in them

2. the French (as too the Spanish) will feel it next year with a reduction in tourist numbers

3. this pettiness helps remind everyone that we've never got on (historical fact)

 

 

When we left we gave up the option to suggest such a move. Now we can sit at home and moan about the dastardly French and rotten Germans 

[Mice!]

18 minutes ago, oowee said:

When we left we gave up the option to suggest such a move. Now we can sit at home and moan about the dastardly French and rotten Germans 

We really didn't,  if the French are sat on our side of the channel checking passengers leaving the country then it's to speed things up and make entry smoother, anything can be negotiated,  otherwise kick them out and do the checks on French shores, while everyone is sat on board a ferry waiting to depart,  see how long the ferry companies put up with that.

Let's be honest what are they expecting to find leaving Dover?

[Mungler]

34 minutes ago, oowee said:

When we left we gave up the option to suggest such a move. Now we can sit at home and moan about the dastardly French and rotten Germans 

 

So because we have left the club we aren't allowed to pass comment or observe on deliberate under-staffing or make a suggested improvement to efficiency? How very odd and petty. That's really going to help 🙂

Mind you, if that's the way they want to play it, fine by me. I just wish the rest of the country would vote with their wallets - immediately stop buying French wine, cheese and cars and certainly on no account holiday there.

How many of the people sitting in a 12 hour queue are going to open themselves up to that again next year? Following on, who loses out on that tourist revenue? Genius.

We will all have to get used to getting a boat to Santander or dropping in through Belgium or Holland. Inconvenient and financially costly to the French, but what price independence eh? Ask a Greek or an Italian.

And since you mention the Germans, well, their relationship with Putin and behavior within Nato has opened a few eyes I bet. Altogether as one in Europe, that is until national interests and domestic elections matter, then it's make it up as you go along. And we want to be part of that club?

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

24 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Let's be honest what are they expecting to find leaving Dover?

Empty rubber dinghies!   

[Scully]

24 minutes ago, Mice! said:

 

Let's be honest what are they expecting to find leaving Dover?

Exactly. It’s not going to be a truckload of refugees or illegal immigrants is it? 

1 minute ago, Mungler said:

 

So because we have left the club we aren't allowed to pass comment or observe on deliberate under-staffing or make a suggested improvement to efficiency? How very odd and petty. That's really going to help 🙂

Mind you, if that's the way they want to play it, fine by me. I just wish the rest of the country would vote with their wallets - immediately stop buying French wine, cheese and cars and certainly on no account holiday there.

How many of the people sitting in a 12 hour queue are going to open themselves up to that again next year? Following on, who loses out on that tourist revenue? Genius.

We will all have to get used to getting a boat to Santander or dropping in through Belgium or Holland. Inconvenient and financially costly to the French, but what price independence eh? Ask a Greek or an Italian.

And since you mention the Germans, well, their relationship with Putin and behavior within Nato has opened a few eyes I bet. Altogether as one in Europe, that is until national interests and domestic elections matter, then it's make it up as you go along. And we want to be part of that club?

 

Good post. I like a post oozing common sense and logic! 👍

[Mungler]

26 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Let's be honest what are they expecting to find leaving Dover?

 

Precisely. 

And with modern advance passenger notification there really is no need for paper or stamps.

Anyways, it's academic. When Le Pen gets a foothold all bets will be off.

 

[Boybrit]

Seems many folk on here are not very aware that the UK does its passport controls for travelling to Dover in Calais or Dunkirk the same way as the French do in Dover for crawling over to France, some sort of international agreement is in place. The ferry companies all do a check on every vehicle coming to the UK to find illegals after the passport check which gets tiresome but only spot checks are done in Dover Eastern Docks when leaving the UK.                                                              I had to stand in a line in Atlanta for 4.5 hours a few years ago just to get through their passport control, its how many countries operate without a Schengen system in place.

[oowee]

15 minutes ago, Boybrit said:

 passport control, its how many countries operate without a Schengen system in place.

Schengen? Now that could be the future 😇

[12gauge82]

The french are simply behaving like toddlers having a tantrum because they didn't get what they want. I think any sensible person that voted brexit would have expected no less from some of our so called European parrners. I'm sure it will all die down soon or they will damage their own economy. 

At the end of the day all it does is show the UK was right to leave, who wants countries like Spain and France able to influence the UK's laws, when they act in spite when not getting their own way. 

[Mungler]

6 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

The french are simply behaving like toddlers having a tantrum because they didn't get what they want. I think any sensible person that voted brexit would have expected no less from some of our so called European parrners. I'm sure it will all die down soon or they will damage their own economy. 

At the end of the day all it does is show the UK was right to leave, who wants countries like Spain and France able to influence the UK's laws, when they act in spite when not getting their own way. 

This

[Jaymo]

2 hours ago, Mungler said:

This

Not really. 
Think people have short memories, the Dover and Ashford situation isn’t unique to a post brexit world. 
There have been countless times in the past of such delays. 
 

We seem to have a simplistic view of them/us which we believe is reciprocated on both sides. No wonder it’s perceived if many seem to hold grudges dating back nearly a thousand years- move on and get along. 
 

PS, boycotting a bit of cheese n wine is like peeing in the wind in terms of economics 

[Raja Clavata]

Talking of economics, we’re now predicted to have the lowest growth of all G7 economies next year, of all the major global economies only Russia is predicted to fair worse.

What’s the cause of that I wonder…

Good job we took back that control 😉

[Dave-G]

2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Talking of economics, we’re now predicted to have the lowest growth of all G7 economies next year, of all the major global economies only Russia is predicted to fair worse.

What’s the cause of that I wonder…

Good job we took back that control 😉

Hotels, feeding, medical and legal bills for thousands upon thousands of boat migrants will be taking its toll no doubt, all assisted by France shipping them over here. 

And yes I DO have a thing about them sapping the funds we provide through our high taxation, it was one of my reasons for LEAVE MEANS LEAVE.

EDIT: Though I will also lay perhaps equal blame on the net zero green policy burden - no doubt partly driven by Mrs. Boris. We're apparently shooting off much more than our fair share towards that target.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Dave-G

[Jaymo]

Sterling has lost between 6 and 20% against all currencies since 2016. Make of that what you will. 
 

[Mungler]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

Talking of economics, we’re now predicted to have the lowest growth of all G7 economies next year, of all the major global economies only Russia is predicted to fair worse.

What’s the cause of that I wonder…

Good job we took back that control 😉

Remainer spin.

Growth is based and measured ‘year to year’ and on GDP which is something most economists can’t even agree on.

For the sake of this example if your economy is at 10 (let’s say that’s GDP, but as above I don’t think GDP is the be all and end all measurement) and in 2020 with covid your economy sustains a massive crash down to 2.5, but next year in 2021 it returns and bounces back to 10 - that return is of course represented on year to year growth as a 400% increase in annual GDP from the previous year.

What is being punted now is more of this - have a look at the average annual growth rate of gross domestic product in the European Union vs UK over the past 5 years.

Back to GDP, that’s one measure of economic prosperity. So are employment figures for example (3.8% in UK) and far worse across Europe. There are other measures and indicators but my experience of Brexit vs remain is that people carry with them entrenched views and I would be wasting my time - and I voted remain 🙂

Also staunch remainers should refrain from throwing stones - the glass panels in the Italian, Greek, Spanish and now French / German sections of that greenhouse are looking rather wobbly.

 

[Jaymo]

You need to check historical data as the Spanish and Greek figures look better now on that chart than they did ten years or so, ago 

[Rem260]

3 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Talking of economics, we’re now predicted to have the lowest growth of all G7 economies next year, of all the major global economies only Russia is predicted to fair worse.

What’s the cause of that I wonder…

Good job we took back that control 😉

 Remoaners blocking every thing we try to do. There just like having an E U  fith column embedded into the country.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Rem260

[Mungler]

2 hours ago, Jaymo said:

Sterling has lost between 6 and 20% against all currencies since 2016. Make of that what you will. 
 

I was taught by my economics teacher to always say ‘compared to what?’.

Here, let’s have a look at what the Euro has done against the dollar by way of comparative example.

 

And Euro to Juan 

[12gauge82]

Not to mention there's far more to quality of life and even wealth for the vast majority of uk citizens, particularly at the bottom of the tree, than measuring it using as blunt a tool as raw economic growth. 

While I'm sure the likes of big uk ceos are disappointed, brexit will almost certainly be of overall benefit to the little man on the street. 

 

[oowee]

18 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Not to mention there's far more to quality of life and even wealth for the vast majority of uk citizens, particularly at the bottom of the tree, than measuring it using as blunt a tool as raw economic growth. 

While I'm sure the likes of big uk ceos are disappointed, brexit will almost certainly be of overall benefit to the little man on the street. 

 

At least now he will be a free little man, doing what he wants when he wants by himself.  

[Raja Clavata]

6 hours ago, Mungler said:

Remainer spin.

Growth is based and measured ‘year to year’ and on GDP which is something most economists can’t even agree on.

For the sake of this example if your economy is at 10 (let’s say that’s GDP, but as above I don’t think GDP is the be all and end all measurement) and in 2020 with covid your economy sustains a massive crash down to 2.5, but next year in 2021 it returns and bounces back to 10 - that return is of course represented on year to year growth as a 400% increase in annual GDP from the previous year.

What is being punted now is more of this - have a look at the average annual growth rate of gross domestic product in the European Union vs UK over the past 5 years.

Back to GDP, that’s one measure of economic prosperity. So are employment figures for example (3.8% in UK) and far worse across Europe. There are other measures and indicators but my experience of Brexit vs remain is that people carry with them entrenched views and I would be wasting my time - and I voted remain 🙂

Also staunch remainers should refrain from throwing stones - the glass panels in the Italian, Greek, Spanish and now French / German sections of that greenhouse are looking rather wobbly.

 

That's a really ill formed example.

Are you suggesting the IMF are a part of the remainer spin establishment?

Of course our employment figures are good, Brexit resulted in a ton of our workforce returning to their native EU countries. Compounded by global skills shortage and mass resignation. I'm pretty sure any UK resident who is able and willing to work can find a job.

Relative earnings are another measure of prosperity, have you checked how we fayre compared to other nations in that regard?

Then there's the topic of productivity but I don't expect you'll enter into a "debate" about how productive the French are, for example, compared to us...

6 hours ago, Dave-G said:

Hotels, feeding, medical and legal bills for thousands upon thousands of boat migrants will be taking its toll no doubt, all assisted by France shipping them over here. 

And yes I DO have a thing about them sapping the funds we provide through our high taxation, it was one of my reasons for LEAVE MEANS LEAVE.

EDIT: Though I will also lay perhaps equal blame on the net zero green policy burden - no doubt partly driven by Mrs. Boris. We're apparently shooting off much more than our fair share towards that target.

So, it's because of migrants, OK.

You actually thought the illegal immigrant issue was going to improve as a result of Brexit, like really!?

Net zero, what are these burdens you refer to and how do they impact GDP?

That's some bubble you're living in fella...

[Raja Clavata]

5 hours ago, Rem260 said:

 Remoaners blocking every thing we try to do. There just like having an E U  fith column embedded into the country.

Everything like - examples please?

We have left, at the very least I was expecting the brave souls who voted for it would at least own the issues it has caused. But no, it's always somebody else's fault...

If you voted for it, then at least be man enough to own the consequences of it.

44 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

While I'm sure the likes of big uk ceos are disappointed, brexit will almost certainly be of overall benefit to the little man on the street. 

 

When!?