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Barrels catch firing pin ??


1Ab
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I have had a bit of trouble with my over and under recently and it's had 4 visits to the gun Smith. 

The last time I picked it up from the gunsmith I got home put stap caps in it and released the springs. 

When I got to my next shoot I opened the gun to take the snap caps out and it got stuck closed.

I did manage to open it with some gentle force and it shot fine. When I got home and started cleaning the gun I noticed the bottom firing pin sticking out more than usual and a small chunk of metal missing in the closing face of the bottom barrel.

This is when I realised the barrels are catching the bottom firing pin when i close the gun. 

Obviously this only happens when I have used snap caps to unload the springs. 

This has never been an issue before so I went to the gunsmith this morning and their opinion is that this is caused by snap caps and I should put them in the bin. And always leave the gun cocked. 

So basically now I can't open or close the gun if the springs are not cocked.

Does this seem correct ?

 

 

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No, not correct, because the same will happen when you fire a cartridge. Also, the fall of the barrels is what cocks the springs and not the movement of the top lever, so the firing pins need to be correct and move out of the way before the bottom barrel comes in contact.

Have you ever heard the saying, ‘ gunmakers make guns, gunsmiths ruin guns’.

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sounds a load of carp to me.......

have you had your pins changed ?........have the return springs been changed ?..........just check your snap caps are nor bigger than your cartridges...

really sounds like the pins are not withdrawing properly

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3 minutes ago, London Best said:

Have you ever heard the saying, ‘ gunmakers make guns, gunsmiths ruin guns’.

No I have not but, I certainly believe it now. 

The gunsmith was convinced it was catching on the snapcaps. And seemed not to take into account the very evident gouge in the closing face of the barrel. 

 

5 minutes ago, ditchman said:

have you had your pins changed ?........have the return springs been changed ?..........just check your snap caps are nor bigger than your cartridges...

really sounds like the pins are not withdrawing properly

To be honest at this point I am not sure exactly what they have changed and what not. But I think you are on to something the bottom firing pin definitely sits more proud.

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19 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

When sorted get rid of the pointless snap caps

How about I get rid of one and keep the other 🤪.  I have not heard convincing enough evidence from either side of this argument. I sit on the fence 

Just now, Old farrier said:

What make of gun ?

It's a Bettinsoli. It's got the usual bettinsoli symptoms and they have been tinkering with it in an attempt to put it right. 

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8 minutes ago, London Best said:
13 minutes ago, 1Ab said:

It is a reputable RFD with a long history and a gunsmith onsite 

I rest my case.

So it's not a good idea to use a gunsmith that works for an RFD?

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25 minutes ago, 1Ab said:

So it's not a good idea to use a gunsmith that works for an RFD?

It all depends on how much of a gunsmith he is. Any goon can fit a pair of firing pins. Not all can do it properly. Some gunsmiths are very capable, but I know three who work on site for RFD’s and I wouldn’t let them wash my car.
Take the gun to someone like John Wiseman at Cannock or Darren Hartshorn at Mid Counties Blacking and know you have a professional working on it.

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16 minutes ago, London Best said:

It all depends on how much of a gunsmith he is. Any goon can fit a pair of firing pins. Not all can do it properly. Some gunsmiths are very capable, but I know three who work on site for RFD’s and I wouldn’t let them wash my car.
Take the gun to someone like John Wiseman at Cannock or Darren Hartshorn at Mid Counties Blacking and know you have a professional working on it.

Great thanks I don't think those are local to me. I'll do some research and ask arround to see if I can find someone local 

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My son has a Belgium Browning B26 O/U game gun which exhibited similar symptoms.. Would either lockup solid or scoring of the cartridge case head from the lower firing pin.. Upon closer examination we found two rods within the action which were used to reset the hammers upon cocking and also as ejector trippers, two roles in one.. When miking up these rods we discovered a few thou difference between them which we concluded was due to wear. This was addressed and repaired rod reinstated to good effect.. Proper result and not a gunsmith in sight..

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11 hours ago, Salmo9 said:

My son has a Belgium Browning B26 O/U game gun which exhibited similar symptoms.. Would either lockup solid or scoring of the cartridge case head from the lower firing pin.. Upon closer examination we found two rods within the action which were used to reset the hammers upon cocking and also as ejector trippers, two roles in one.. When miking up these rods we discovered a few thou difference between them which we concluded was due to wear. This was addressed and repaired rod reinstated to good effect.. Proper result and not a gunsmith in sight..

Thanks for the info, I am certainly going to investigate and attempt to find the problem myself before I take it back to a gunsmith. So I don't get the wool pulled over my eyes again.

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1 hour ago, 1Ab said:

Thanks for the info, I am certainly going to investigate and attempt to find the problem myself before I take it back to a gunsmith. So I don't get the wool pulled over my eyes again.

Take photos with your phone when you take it to bits 

it’s so much easier to put it back together 👍

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On 23/07/2022 at 13:15, 1Ab said:

I have had a bit of trouble with my over and under recently and it's had 4 visits to the gun Smith. 

The last time I picked it up from the gunsmith I got home put stap caps in it and released the springs. 

When I got to my next shoot I opened the gun to take the snap caps out and it got stuck closed.

I did manage to open it with some gentle force and it shot fine. When I got home and started cleaning the gun I noticed the bottom firing pin sticking out more than usual and a small chunk of metal missing in the closing face of the bottom barrel.

This is when I realised the barrels are catching the bottom firing pin when i close the gun. 

Obviously this only happens when I have used snap caps to unload the springs. 

This has never been an issue before so I went to the gunsmith this morning and their opinion is that this is caused by snap caps and I should put them in the bin. And always leave the gun cocked. 

So basically now I can't open or close the gun if the springs are not cocked.

Does this seem correct ?

 

 

Please tell what kind of gun you are talking about . No one can pass an opinion without knowing . Also what sort of snap caps .

Did you talk to a gunsmith or a gun dealer , two very different things , a gunsmith would have checked the gun with your caps and with capped cases ,if he could not see an obvious fault .

There could be a number of possible causes , worn snap cap inserts , broken /deformed /worn /dirty striker   , action timing /cocking fault . 

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3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Yes, in MY HUMBLE OPINION, the OP states it is an O/U and will probably not be 200 years old so will not need the pressure to be relieved in old springs!  

Purdey suggest snap caps be used on all their guns both SXS and OU. Good enough for me.

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On 23/07/2022 at 13:46, London Best said:

But they cannot be causing this problem.

Oh yes they can, if there is excessive headspace or the snap cap springs are worn and weak or the actual cap in the snap caps are sunk, then the pins can remain proud of the breech face thus catching the barrels upon opening the gun. I would be very surprised if the firing pins, especially the bottom one are not now bent. I saw the same thing occur with a plastic snap cap that was cracked and allowed the cap to go too far forward, jamming the firing pin. Some O/U guns have a floating bottom pin that the barrels will push back upon opening.  Throw the snap caps away and buy new IF you must. Do you jack up your car when you are not using it, it takes the pressure off the springs, you know  ?  🤔

24 minutes ago, DUNKS said:

Purdey suggest snap caps be used on all their guns both SXS and OU. Good enough for me.

I use snap caps in my 2 S x S guns due to their V springs and only coming out 4 or 5 times a year, but never in the O/U's.

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