Held at gun point

[bruno22rf]

19 hours ago, Westley said:

I can see more of these events occurring quite honestly. Before I retired I became the force Wildlife Liaison Officer,  I attended many seminars which were organised by the RSPB. At the first and several more of these seminars those attending were primarily shooting people. At the final seminar that I attended and the Officer that took up my position after my retirement, were all fully paid up, RSPB members. So things are changing and far more shooters are facing complaints from people who have rather bigoted views of shooting. There are more people exercising their 'right to roam' in the countryside and especially on the urban fringe than ever before. I have even been told that I 'should not be there' by blatant trespassers walking their doggies. With our laws of trespass being virtually none existent we will struggle, which is why I am an advocate of informing the Police of my intention to shoot, especially on the ever expanding urban fringe. Enter the grounds of the properties of those trespassing and see how long it takes for the Police to attend, but try phoning for the Police to attend to trespassing on the ground you are shooting  ? Someone has to make the first move in enlightening the Police who are likely to have to attend these incidents and the BASC are the only ones who are attempting this at present.

All very interesting but totally irrelevant in my area, if you inform the police that you are shooting their new policy, as of approx 18 months ago, is not to even log your call thus keeping no record or reference. The old system, where you would be given a URN (unique reference number) that you could quote for instant clarification, has been scrapped. The BASC fighting this? pull the other one.  

[Westley]

4 hours ago, bruno22rf said:

All very interesting but totally irrelevant in my area, if you inform the police that you are shooting their new policy, as of approx 18 months ago, is not to even log your call thus keeping no record or reference. The old system, where you would be given a URN (unique reference number) that you could quote for instant clarification, has been scrapped. The BASC fighting this? pull the other one.  

It was never suggested that BASC were 'fighting'  anything, but it is a fact that they have held several seminars which Police Officers have attended, with the intention of enlightening them to what is a legitimate activity, regardless of public opinion.

[bruno22rf]

1 hour ago, Westley said:

It was never suggested that BASC were 'fighting'  anything, but it is a fact that they have held several seminars which Police Officers have attended, with the intention of enlightening them to what is a legitimate activity, regardless of public opinion.

Oh, a seminar....that should help no end. There is so much that BASC could do to fight increasing pressure on shooting, they just choose to sit on their hands (and huge fighting fund), ask them how much they have in the bank, couple of years ago it was several million in the fighting fund alone, also ask how many days free sghooting they provide for select MP's under the guise of introducing those in poweer to the sport, the vast majority of these MP's have been shooting all their lives.

[Westley]

10 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

Oh, a seminar....that should help no end. There is so much that BASC could do to fight increasing pressure on shooting, they just choose to sit on their hands (and huge fighting fund), ask them how much they have in the bank, couple of years ago it was several million in the fighting fund alone, also ask how many days free sghooting they provide for select MP's under the guise of introducing those in poweer to the sport, the vast majority of these MP's have been shooting all their lives.

I am not getting into a BASC bashing article here, I will make my feelings known to them tomorrow at the Game Fair. However, how many of the other Organisations have done anything in an attempt to stop what is an expensive waste of resources and time  ?

[holloway]

Just now, Westley said:

I am not getting into a BASC bashing article here, I will make my feelings known to them tomorrow at the Game Fair. However, how many of the other Organisations have done anything in an attempt to stop what is an expensive waste of resources and time  ?

A good point made .

[Fellside]

Legitimate shooters being held at gun point in the open countryside - needs to be reported to the press and media. The headlines could read: “2 men threatened by armed police for legally shooting crows on farmland”…. or similar. Further details re the cost of such a blunder should be mentioned. I’m just guessing, perhaps £50,000 for ground mobilisation, twice that if a helicopter is involved (as it was with someone I know). If there’s one thing that spells disastrous PR for the police, it’s any blatant squandering of the public purse, along with the injustice of someone being unfairly ‘got at’. A few such headlines, along with social media storms, would cause a rethink. 

[Walker570]

4 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Legitimate shooters being held at gun point in the open countryside - needs to be reported to the press and media. The headlines could read: “2 men threatened by armed police for legally shooting crows on farmland”…. or similar. Further details re the cost of such a blunder should be mentioned. I’m just guessing, perhaps £50,000 for ground mobilisation, twice that if a helicopter is involved (as it was with someone I know). If there’s one thing that spells disastrous PR for the police, it’s any blatant squandering of the public purse, along with the injustice of someone being unfairly ‘got at’. A few such headlines, along with social media storms, would cause a rethink. 

100%  correct.   

[discobob]

Just as an aside, back in the 80's in Germany we used to have to do Site Guard which meant protecting certain sensitive locations. I know that on two QRF's we had a family surrounded who had wandered into the protective region, as well as a couple that were "cough cough" making babies when they were surrounded..

[Westley]

1 hour ago, Fellside said:

Legitimate shooters being held at gun point in the open countryside - needs to be reported to the press and media. The headlines could read: “2 men threatened by armed police for legally shooting crows on farmland”…. or similar. Further details re the cost of such a blunder should be mentioned. I’m just guessing, perhaps £50,000 for ground mobilisation, twice that if a helicopter is involved (as it was with someone I know). If there’s one thing that spells disastrous PR for the police, it’s any blatant squandering of the public purse, along with the injustice of someone being unfairly ‘got at’. A few such headlines, along with social media storms, would cause a rethink. 

And THAT would do our sport a hell of a lot of good  !   🙄

[Westley]

1 hour ago, Fellside said:

Legitimate shooters being held at gun point in the open countryside - needs to be reported to the press and media. The headlines could read: “2 men threatened by armed police for legally shooting crows on farmland”…. or similar. Further details re the cost of such a blunder should be mentioned. I’m just guessing, perhaps £50,000 for ground mobilisation, twice that if a helicopter is involved (as it was with someone I know). If there’s one thing that spells disastrous PR for the police, it’s any blatant squandering of the public purse, along with the injustice of someone being unfairly ‘got at’. A few such headlines, along with social media storms, would cause a rethink. 

Try and find a newspaper that will run with that  !

They are more interested in the 2 shooting incidents in residential areas of Merseyside so far this week, I won't bother with the stabbings  !

And you wonder why the armed response react in the way they have been TRAINED to do, especially on the outskirts of large towns and cities.  These criminals are NOT going to play with their converted weapons in their back yards, they have a drive out to the country for that. 

Edited July 29, 2022 by Westley

[Fellside]

Just now, Westley said:

And THAT would do our sport a hell of a lot of good  !   🙄

It’s called justice……🙄

Framed in the correct context it WOULD actually do our sport a lot of good. If it happened to me - there would be a press and media pack despatched within the hour and interviews to follow. 

The only time I’ve been reported (for shooting on a friend’s farm) a local bobby phoned me and checked out the facts etc. After contacting the farm it was case closed. That’s how it should be. 

[Westley]

5 minutes ago, Fellside said:

It’s called justice……🙄

Framed in the correct context it WOULD actually do our sport a lot of good. If it happened to me - there would be a press and media pack despatched within the hour and interviews to follow. 

The only time I’ve been reported (for shooting on a friend’s farm) a local bobby phoned me and checked out the facts etc. After contacting the farm it was case closed. That’s how it should be. 

Is that farm situated on the outskirts of a major city where gun and knife crime is virtually out of control  ?  2 of our little darlings have been given 31 and 27 years respectively for the cold blooded assassination that they carried out. Now THAT made headlines  !

Edited July 29, 2022 by Westley

[Fellside]

P.S I’m not concerned with what the scaly wags in Liverpool are up to…..and yes I would get the story out. I’ve seen far less newsworthy items go to press. If the headline includes ‘held at gun point’ believe me it would copy!

 

Just now, Westley said:

Is that farm situated on the outskirts of a major city where gun and knife crime is virtually out of control  ?  2 of our little darlings have been given 31 and 27 years respectively for the cold blooded assassination that they carried out.

No - deep rural. Open countryside.

[Westley]

2 minutes ago, Fellside said:

P.S I’m not concerned with what the scaly wags in Liverpool are up to…..and yes I would get the story out. I’ve seen far less newsworthy items go to press. If the headline includes ‘held at gun point’ believe me it would copy!

 

No - deep rural. Open countryside.

And you are unable to spot the difference here  ?

[Gordon R]

Westley - totally agree. Wishful headlines such as "held at gunpoint" might sell, but just who is going to run with that headline.

An even handed article in a newspaper, highlighting innocent shooters being surrounded by armed Police, just isn't going to happen.

 

[bruno22rf]

2 hours ago, Westley said:

I am not getting into a BASC bashing article here, I will make my feelings known to them tomorrow at the Game Fair. However, how many of the other Organisations have done anything in an attempt to stop what is an expensive waste of resources and time  ?

Maybe because they know it would be like peeing into the wind, a useless waste of the groups financial resources and time?

[Westley]

37 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

Maybe because they know it would be like peeing into the wind, a useless waste of the groups financial resources and time?

If it helped to give Police Officers a greater understanding of shooting in the field, I fail to see it as a waste of time and money. The RSPB seminars certainly opened my eyes and made my future dealings with them a more cautious affair.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Westley

[bruno22rf]

16 minutes ago, Westley said:

If it helped to give Police Officers a greater understanding of shooting in the field, I fail to see it as a waste of time and money. The RSPB seminars certainly opened my eyes and made my future dealings with them a more cautious affair.

These seminars, before walked up was illegally threatened??? As for the RSPB I would'nt trust them to tell the time in a room of clocks, had dealings many years ago with them.

[Fellside]

2 hours ago, Westley said:

And you are unable to spot the difference here  ?

Yes. One wears camo and sits by some decoys in a hide. The other doesn’t. There are simply too many examples of armed response units swooping on the former - when the purpose and intent of the shotgunner is plainly obvious. 

[Fellside]

2 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Westley - totally agree. Wishful headlines such as "held at gunpoint" might sell, but just who is going to run with that headline.

An even handed article in a newspaper, highlighting innocent shooters being surrounded by armed Police, just isn't going to happen.

 

That’s because no one bothers to make it happen. I’m sure lots of people would just be relieved when the firearms unit eventually disembark - and they can get back to their shooting. Understandable. I can only say that for me, this would be the beginning of the affair and certainly not the end. 

[Westley]

54 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Yes. One wears camo and sits by some decoys in a hide. The other doesn’t. There are simply too many examples of armed response units swooping on the former - when the purpose and intent of the shotgunner is plainly obvious. 

Only plainly obvious to another shooter  !

[Fellside]

32 minutes ago, Westley said:

Only plainly obvious to another shooter  !

I respectfully disagree. Someone with more than two brain cells to make a spark would know they were shooting birds in some way, form or other. They wouldn’t have to be an expert pigeon shooter. This leads me to believe there may be an element of opportunistic training involved. 

On the occasion my friend was swooped on (literally by a police helicopter), they had phoned the farm first to clarify, yet still swooped. They ordered my friend to lay his gun in the dirt and keep his hands above his head etc. He was 4 miles from the nearest village - not a house or road in sight. He was strangely accepting of this situation. As I mentioned earlier, I would have taken it further.

As an aside, I would like to emphasise that I am a keen supporter of the police. I am grateful for the extremely tough job they do. However all practices / protocols evolve, and this aspect of policing is in need of urgent transformation I’m afraid. 

[mel b3]

1 hour ago, Westley said:

Only plainly obvious to another shooter  !

It should also be plainly obvious to a trained professional, such as a firearms officer . That carries in their hand , a tool capable of taking a life in a split second , if they get it wrong because of their lack of knowledge,  of firearms , and their uses.

[Walker570]

1 hour ago, Fellside said:

I respectfully disagree. Someone with more than two brain cells to make a spark would know they were shooting birds in some way, form or other. They wouldn’t have to be an expert pigeon shooter. This leads me to believe there may be an element of opportunistic training involved. 

On the occasion my friend was swooped on (literally by a police helicopter), they had phoned the farm first to clarify, yet still swooped. They ordered my friend to lay his gun in the dirt and keep his hands above his head etc. He was 4 miles from the nearest village - not a house or road in sight. He was strangely accepting of this situation. As I mentioned earlier, I would have taken it further.

As an aside, I would like to emphasise that I am a keen supporter of the police. I am grateful for the extremely tough job they do. However all practices / protocols evolve, and this aspect of policing is in need of urgent transformation I’m afraid. 

100%

[BlaserF3]

I too read about the helicopter fiasco, no doubt the cops had a good laugh about it. I have an idea, menstruating Police officers should not be allowed to go out armed duties.

1 hour ago, mel b3 said:

It should also be plainly obvious to a trained professional, such as a firearms officer . That carries in their hand , a tool capable of taking a life in a split second , if they get it wrong because of their lack of knowledge,  of firearms , and their uses.

Totally agree 😀