NHS Problems

[ditchman]

looking at the news....and im seeing ambulances queing up for 5-10 hours to discharge their client....lack of beds ......

i was told and gleaned that nearly 50% of folk in hostpital are there to die ......these folk in years gone by would haver been in a nursing home ...but then the govt at that time withdrew funding for nursing homes....then they were classed as care homes....and when the folk became too ill.....the homes not having qualified staff anymore ...just bunged them in the hostpital........

 

am i being too simplistic as to the current problem

[chesterse]

17 minutes ago, ditchman said:

looking at the news....and im seeing ambulances queing up for 5-10 hours to discharge their client....lack of beds ......

i was told and gleaned that nearly 50% of folk in hostpital are there to die ......these folk in years gone by would haver been in a nursing home ...but then the govt at that time withdrew funding for nursing homes....then they were classed as care homes....and when the folk became too ill.....the homes not having qualified staff anymore ...just bunged them in the hostpital........

 

am i being too simplistic as to the current problem

No it’s a major contributory factor. There was a convalescent home near us called Halmer Grange which was fantastic. My wife’s father had two spells in there to recover after operations. These type of establishments have been closed down all over the Country with nothing to replace them. No wonder we have a problem.

[enfieldspares]

23 minutes ago, ditchman said:

looking at the news....and im seeing ambulances queing up for 5-10 hours to discharge their client....lack of beds ......

i was told and gleaned that nearly 50% of folk in hostpital are there to die ......these folk in years gone by would haver been in a nursing home ...but then the govt at that time withdrew funding for nursing homes....then they were classed as care homes....and when the folk became too ill.....the homes not having qualified staff anymore ...just bunged them in the hostpital........

 

am i being too simplistic as to the current problem

No. You are correct.

[Lloyd90]

17 minutes ago, ditchman said:

looking at the news....and im seeing ambulances queing up for 5-10 hours to discharge their client....lack of beds ......

i was told and gleaned that nearly 50% of folk in hostpital are there to die ......these folk in years gone by would haver been in a nursing home ...but then the govt at that time withdrew funding for nursing homes....then they were classed as care homes....and when the folk became too ill.....the homes not having qualified staff anymore ...just bunged them in the hostpital........

 

am i being too simplistic as to the current problem

 

Yes ... massively too simplistic. 

There are a big number of issues, all compounding the strain and burden on the NHS.

 

Care and nursing homes haven't "bunged" the people there into the NHS hospitals to die.

Absolutely loads of people receive end of life care in nursing homes all the time. 

In my years working in the Hospital and generally in adult social care it's almost unheard of with nursing homes sending people into hospital 'to die'. 

Sometimes they have people with very extreme or specific care needs that they cannot meet, and they go into Hospital for that specialist care until something else can be sorted out. Sometimes those people pass away whilst in Hospital. 

 

 

Just look at this forum as one example ... recent posts about care home costs, £1,200 - £1,500 per week, people shouting it's outrageous etc. 

Yet we don't have enough. They are pretty much all privatised now, and every local authority I know doesn't have enough placements. #They cannot get private industry to invest the multiple millions it takes to build, setup and run nursing home facilities. 

If it was such brilliant money and easy to do you'd think everyone would be doing it. 

 

The reality is, its a very risky business model, that's very difficult, and very expensive to setup and run. Hence the cost per bed is massive. 

Then ontop of all the problems of getting it setup, the people's family members, and local authorities, think they're being ripped off and aren't happy to pay for it. 

 

 

 

I've mentioned before, a friend in Ireland had an aunt with terminal cancer, they sent her home to die. Her family were expected to provide her care as best as they could. 

They got a visit from the district nurse maybe once a fortnight. 

Currently we have people having 3-4 visits from nursing staff each day in their own home, whilst their family who live nearby say they can't do anything to help out because they have other things to do.

 

At present people don't know how good they have it, but as we can see across the board, the current system just cannot handle the demand.

Either we massively reduce the amount of support and services offered, and say either people's family pick up the slack or they go without, or we have to increase funding to match the demand. 

 

[Mungler]

Taken from elsewhere:

 

How to destroy the NHS:

Step 1. Put it on a pedestal where any criticism is an act of apostasy

Step 2. Prioritize rainbows over patients

Step 3. Invite the third world over to use it for free

Step 4. Offer free healthcare to the educationally subnormal

Step 5. Allow GPs to hide behind fascist pitbulls on reception

Step 6. Make upset feelings a medical condition

Step 7. Close for 2 years for all services that don't involve a cough or gender reassignment.

Step 8. Appoint hundreds of net zero co-ordinators while setting fire to £4bn of unused plastic PPE

Step 9. Demand a 20% pay rise while being 7% less productive than you were in 2019.

Step 10. Demand a cashless society meaning nurses cant top up their pay from your nan's purse.

[rubyred]

Mungler 

You have got it spot on 

[JohnfromUK]

In a sense, the main problem I saw when briefly (3 days) hospitalised in 2020 (non covid related) was that it is utterly disorganised and chaotic:

• I was 11 hours in a corridor in A&E (where I had been sent by my GP) as there were 'no beds' - but when I did get to a ward (at 01:30 in the morning eventually) the ward was only 25% occupied.
• In A&E there were more staff than patients all falling over each other.  One person had 2 different 'teams' visit for the same tests in half an hour.
• Again in A&E, no one knows what is going on.  I was told repeatedly I would be 'seen' and told whether I was to be kept in or discharged within 1/2 an hour - and that was repeatedly over 5 hours.
• I was initially told a completely wrong diagnosis - and no idea what got confused and by whom, but completely spurious and I assume meant for someone else.
• Porters milling around to take you for scans etc, but couldn't find a wheelchair (I could walk perfectly well, but not allowed to)
• When I got to the ward - loads of pyjama tops, no bottoms, so had to wear an operating gown!
• Huge expensive trolley full of Hewlett Packard medical gear to take my vital statistics every 4 hours ......... and despite being all bluetooth, WiFi etc - 'that part wasn't connected' so all readings copied manually onto a paper chart and checked by a second nurse, then transcribed manually onto a desktop AND a wall mounted record chart!

Lovely staff on the wards, dozens of them, for (in our ward bay) 2 patients (8 beds in the bay), both of whom were walkable and needing little 'nursing care' other than our regular changes of drip feeds.

 

[Walker570]

1 hour ago, ditchman said:

looking at the news....and im seeing ambulances queing up for 5-10 hours to discharge their client....lack of beds ......

i was told and gleaned that nearly 50% of folk in hostpital are there to die ......these folk in years gone by would haver been in a nursing home ...but then the govt at that time withdrew funding for nursing homes....then they were classed as care homes....and when the folk became too ill.....the homes not having qualified staff anymore ...just bunged them in the hostpital........

 

am i being too simplistic as to the current problem

It is one of the problems BUT at the end of the day it has to be down to appauling mismanagement both within the NHS and at Ministerial level.  Running a hospital like any other 'industry' ain't rocket science but give me an example of any nationalised business/industry that has succeeded.    I have now been waiting for three months for s simple 10 minute very minor op ...an injection in my eye which takes all of 15 minutes maximum at Leicester Royal Infirmary where the Leicester Mercury raised the issue at the same hospitalo of failures much more serious than mine.    It must be a simple job to outlay this sort of work to the private system and the £1600 a shot charged to the NHS.

There must be thousands of small simple jobs that could be handled in the same way.

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

It must be a simple job to outlay this sort of work to the private system and the £1600 a shot charged to the NHS.

This is often done.  A friend of mine has had two cataracts done this way (private clinic, NHS paying) in the last 6 months.  Not a long wait either (8 weeks ish I think).

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by JohnfromUK

[Mungler]

5 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

It is one of the problems BUT at the end of the day it has to be down to appauling mismanagement both within the NHS and at Ministerial level.  Running a hospital like any other 'industry' ain't rocket science but give me an example of any nationalised business/industry that has succeeded.    I have now been waiting for three months for s simple 10 minute very minor op ...an injection in my eye which takes all of 15 minutes maximum at Leicester Royal Infirmary where the Leicester Mercury raised the issue at the same hospitalo of failures much more serious than mine.    It must be a simple job to outlay this sort of work to the private system and the £1600 a shot charged to the NHS.

There must be thousands of small simple jobs that could be handled in the same way.

 

This. We need BUPA-lite.

[Walker570]

2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

This is often done.  A friend of mine has had two cataracts done this way (private clinic, NHS paying) in the last 6 months.  Not a long wait either (8 weeks ish I think).

 

Yes, I need cataract surgery and have a private unit just 30 minutes away who will do it on the NHS BUT they do not do the injections unfortunately.

[Gordon R]

Reading Mungler's list, it would be easy to say it is slanted and dismiss it out of hand, but it looks scarily accurate to me.

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, one must also put in the ambulance times getting to 999 calls and then waiting in line for sometimes hours, 🤔

Edited January 5, 2023 by oldypigeonpopper

[oldypigeonpopper]

Just now, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, one must also put in the ambulance times getting to 999 calls and then waiting in line for sometimes hours, 🤔

Hello, my older son has been lucky to get a scan next week as his operations to sort out a hernia have not worked, both done in private hospitals on the NHS , he cannot work due to constant pain, I am sure there are 1000s on the waiting list , how do you fix the NHS Mr Sunak 🤔

[ph5172]

Unfortunately I think it is beyond repair. 
 

it needs someone in government to just say it and explain why. 
It’s concept is perfect - for the time it was conceived, since then people are living longer. Treatment that was never even imagined on ailments that were never even known about is now been carried out. 
I would hazard a guess if the NHS only treated the core list at conception it would probably still float. 
 

Local only recently there were no free ambulances in our county, not one,  ALL were waiting to unload, one had been waiting 10 hours ….. to unload … that’s nowhere near the 15mins unload quota!

saying that however broken it is people are still getting sorted …… eventually. 
 

what’s the alternative…. Government allowing you to Withdraw part of your NI / tax and go private, using a private A&E and private ambulance or allow the NHS to charge your private medical care for the initial ambulance and immediate care till you move over to your private hospital? 
 

Unfortunately the whole system needs a complete overhaul, stripping back and starting again.

Charging for appointments and attendance will (as usual) only hurt the income earning fraternity as exemption will apply as the do with everything - I would also hazard a guess those who would qualify for exemptions are probably the highest and most frequent users (discount old age in the exempt group because that’s a given unfortunately the older you get you will in most cases naturally require more medical care)

[Westward]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

Reading Mungler's list, it would be easy to say it is slanted and dismiss it out of hand, but it looks scarily accurate to me.

Just missing a couple of things like refuse hospital entry to drunks. Let the ambulances drop them at the nearest police station to be thrown in the cells to sleep it off.

As for the topic I've no doubt things in the hospitals would be easier if the GPs - who seem to do less and less these days - were more available to those who pay their (often huge) salaries.

[enfieldspares]

2 hours ago, Mungler said:

Step 10. Demand a cashless society meaning nurses cant top up their pay from your nan's purse.

You, Sir, nearly owed me one computer keyboard! Fortunately I'd just finished by afternoon cup of tea before I read this!

🤣 ROTFL!

[old man]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

 

This. We need BUPA-lite.

Nope, when you are in there and the wheels come off their first reaction is to dial 999 and get you shipped out!

[JohnfromUK]

6 minutes ago, old man said:

when you are in there and the wheels come off their first reaction is to dial 999 and get you shipped out

My late father had a hip replacement in a Bupa hospital.  Before the op - they assessed him for 'risk' as he was in his 70s at the time.  They would not do 'high risk' patients as they weren't equipped to deal with unexpected side effects.  He was pronounced 'OK' risk and the op was successfully done and all went well.

NHS general hospitals have a range of specialists and facilities up to and including emergency staff and intensive care on site should things go wrong. 

The Bupa hospital where father was done was mainly orthopaedic and minor/intermediate elective surgery (hernias, wisdom teeth, joints, local anaesthetic procedures etc.).  It had no A&E and no intensive care facilities, hence them being cautious with older patients.

[Vince Green]

5 hours ago, Mungler said:

Taken from elsewhere:

 

How to destroy the NHS:

Step 1. Put it on a pedestal where any criticism is an act of apostasy

Step 2. Prioritize rainbows over patients

Step 3. Invite the third world over to use it for free

Step 4. Offer free healthcare to the educationally subnormal

Step 5. Allow GPs to hide behind fascist pitbulls on reception

Step 6. Make upset feelings a medical condition

Step 7. Close for 2 years for all services that don't involve a cough or gender reassignment.

Step 8. Appoint hundreds of net zero co-ordinators while setting fire to £4bn of unused plastic PPE

Step 9. Demand a 20% pay rise while being 7% less productive than you were in 2019.

Step 10. Demand a cashless society meaning nurses cant top up their pay from your nan's purse.

This ^^^^

The NHS blames everybody but themselves for their own internal problems. Yet they do absolutely nothing to address them.

The answer is simple, they need to get a grip on what is going wrong not bleat about how unfair it all is.

 

 

[ditchman]

6 hours ago, Mungler said:

Taken from elsewhere:

 

How to destroy the NHS:

Step 1. Put it on a pedestal where any criticism is an act of apostasy

Step 2. Prioritize rainbows over patients

Step 3. Invite the third world over to use it for free

Step 4. Offer free healthcare to the educationally subnormal

Step 5. Allow GPs to hide behind fascist pitbulls on reception

Step 6. Make upset feelings a medical condition

Step 7. Close for 2 years for all services that don't involve a cough or gender reassignment.

Step 8. Appoint hundreds of net zero co-ordinators while setting fire to £4bn of unused plastic PPE

Step 9. Demand a 20% pay rise while being 7% less productive than you were in 2019.

Step 10. Demand a cashless society meaning nurses cant top up their pay from your nan's purse.

HHhhhahahhahhahhahahaahhaahaaaaaaaa........

[discobob]

16 hours ago, Vince Green said:

The NHS blames everybody but themselves for their own internal problems.

It is the way of the world - Sturgeon and Drakeford blame everyone else for problems they have created/can't rise to the occasion...... Money Money Money

[Vince Green]

My late father in law took very  ill in 2018 but was taken to a different hospital from usual about 30 miles away.

Presumably because his 'usual' hospital was full. He had a lot of things wrong with him, cancer, heart, kisneys, anemic, etc and had spent a lot of time in hospital 

Trouble was when he got there they had no idea of his history because they hadn't got access to his records and were reluctant to treat him

How can that be so in the 21st century?

And how much time and money (and lives) are wasted photocopying records and putting them in a taxi? It should be all available on a screen 

Simple stuff but so stupid. 

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Vince Green

[amateur]

14 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

And how much time and money (and lives) are wasted photocopying records and putting them in a taxi? It should be all available on a screen 

Simple stuff but so stupid. 

 

But that would require a new public sector IT system, and we know how well they go.

[ditchman]

On 05/01/2023 at 12:52, ditchman said:

looking at the news....and im seeing ambulances queing up for 5-10 hours to discharge their client....lack of beds ......

i was told and gleaned that nearly 50% of folk in hostpital are there to die ......these folk in years gone by would haver been in a nursing home ...but then the govt at that time withdrew funding for nursing homes....then they were classed as care homes....and when the folk became too ill.....the homes not having qualified staff anymore ...just bunged them in the hostpital........

 

am i being too simplistic as to the current problem

just heard from the news interview with Racheed Sanook..............he is realeasing millions to empty the hostpitals of the first of 13,000  fok that should be in care and nursing homes....

im a simple person ..