Cheddite Hulls

[flippermaj]

Does anyone know if the Eley Eco pro 70mm steel cartridges are Cheddite hulls, I need some for reloading and have plenty of once fired Eley Eco Pro carts!

Cheers

[rbrowning2]

100% will not to be Cheddite hulls, but why is that an issue? use which ever hull gives you the best crimp when reloaded, unless only Cheddite do that for your reloading machine.

[rovercoupe]

Some eley cartridges have a slightly larger primer hole so can be a bit awkward to reload without the larger Rio primers.

[flippermaj]

Thanks for the info guys, was going to use Cheddite hulls as thats what the load recipe uses.  

I will be using CCI 209M primers, what do they best fit in?

Cheers

[rbrowning2]

Cheddite hulls are constructed like all EU hulls with the exception of the B&P manufactured gordon recoil reduction system type hulls, which are I find not worth reloading.

So your CCI 209M are American manufactured primers rather than EU manufactured like RIo and Fiocchi or Cheddite, however they are all type 209 primers so they should fit any of the EU hulls (Eley, Hull, Fiocchi, Express, Gamebore, RC, Jocker, Trust) just collect a few from your local clay ground and test them to confirm they are not lose in any particular cartridge manufactures hull. Insert primer in empty hull tap firmly the bottom, rim of the hull at an angle onto a table top and see if the primer is still secure in the hull.

The load data may call for cheddite hulls, each make does have a slightly different internal volume but that should not be significant enough to worry about.

The CCI 209m are a magnum primer (very hot) used for heavy loads, is the load data you are using calling for 209m?

[flippermaj]

The load data calls for cx2000 or cheddite 209 but all I can get are cci209m primers.  Will be using them with alliant steel powder.  Had considered CCI 209 as a cooler primer but have read that alliant steel powder needs a hot ish primer to burn properly?

[Gas seal]

Hi the cx2000 primer and the cci209m are the same size at 0.243 inches. The cci209m is the hotter primer then cx2000 .theCCI 209 is (cooler) . The data I use for Alliant steel power is using cx2000 primer . Are you loading steel shot.

 

 

 

[flippermaj]

Yep reloading steel shot

[mellors]

11 hours ago, flippermaj said:

The load data calls for cx2000 or cheddite 209 but all I can get are cci209m primers.  Will be using them with alliant steel powder.  Had considered CCI 209 as a cooler primer but have read that alliant steel powder needs a hot ish primer to burn properly?

Hi.

Not sure about cci primers but I'm loading 20 gauge steel  with cx 2000 primers and alliant steel powder to good effect. 

Clay and game have the cx2000. 

[Bernard]

On 12/03/2023 at 20:45, flippermaj said:

The load data calls for cx2000 or cheddite 209 but all I can get are cci209m primers.  Will be using them with alliant steel powder.  Had considered CCI 209 as a cooler primer but have read that alliant steel powder needs a hot ish primer to burn properly?

Here is an excellent guide to primer sizes. I have found Eley Maxam primer pockets to be in the Rio size and in need of resizing to get a CX2000 or similar to stay put.

[Bernard]

On 12/03/2023 at 20:45, flippermaj said:

The load data calls for cx2000 or cheddite 209 but all I can get are cci209m primers.  Will be using them with alliant steel powder.  Had considered CCI 209 as a cooler primer but have read that alliant steel powder needs a hot ish primer to burn properly?

There’s also a good article by Tom Arbrust here:

http://www.armbrust.acf2.org/primersubs.htm
 

it discusses the effect of primer substitutions in various loads. Not as cut and dry as you think and dependent upon payload size. It would indicate that they are fairly comparable when larger payloads are being used. That said, I have the Lightning Steel manuals which use CX2000, Fed209A and CCI209A primers with 7/8 and 1oz steel loads and they look like the CCI209 is hotter.

What’s the load? And what gun / chamber length?

[flippermaj]

Hi Bernard, sorry for the slow response but I am on and off line a bit at the moment.  It's Mark here, we have chatted elsewhere about TSS loads etc so it's your Oakie HG load I am planning to run.  I am looking locally for Cheddite hulls and thought that it would be easy enough to pick up some used 70mm cases from the clay ground but I don't know which brands use Cheddite hulls.  I would like to stick to the load recipe as much as possible but may have to use the CCI 209M primer as previously discussed with you.  That would be one variation from the recipe and I don't want to deviate any further especially as the PSI on the load was already at 11400 psi and my gun is only proofed to 13,000 psi or there abouts.  I may have to move to a different gun that can handle a higher pressure as I have a 3.5 inch SXP,  but that sort of defeats the point of home loading the TSS as I wanted to use it in the SxS !

If I used the SXP I would load a 3 inch case and take a chance on the forceing cones being fine in a 3.5 inch gun.  I would look for a 36grm steel load and swap out some of the steel for TSS.   All loads whatever cart would be roll turnover  so that should reduce the pressure a bit.

Cheers Mark

[Bernard]

On 19/03/2023 at 12:46, flippermaj said:

Hi Bernard, sorry for the slow response but I am on and off line a bit at the moment.  It's Mark here, we have chatted elsewhere about TSS loads etc so it's your Oakie HG load I am planning to run.  I am looking locally for Cheddite hulls and thought that it would be easy enough to pick up some used 70mm cases from the clay ground but I don't know which brands use Cheddite hulls.  I would like to stick to the load recipe as much as possible but may have to use the CCI 209M primer as previously discussed with you.  That would be one variation from the recipe and I don't want to deviate any further especially as the PSI on the load was already at 11400 psi and my gun is only proofed to 13,000 psi or there abouts.  I may have to move to a different gun that can handle a higher pressure as I have a 3.5 inch SXP,  but that sort of defeats the point of home loading the TSS as I wanted to use it in the SxS !

If I used the SXP I would load a 3 inch case and take a chance on the forceing cones being fine in a 3.5 inch gun.  I would look for a 36grm steel load and swap out some of the steel for TSS.   All loads whatever cart would be roll turnover  so that should reduce the pressure a bit.

Cheers 

I’ll share a page from the lightning steel 2 manual when I get home. It has a couple of identical loads and demonstrates the effect of that primer swap in a 24 gram and a 28 gram steel shot load with large charges of  Alliant Steel powder in a 2.75inch case. You can use them to inform your choices. Long story short, I think you’re looking at a 1 grain powder reduction if you’re concerned.

 

Separately, reference the forcing cones thing. Your SXP will be a chromed chamber. A small charge of TSS at the bottom of the wad where it’s thickest is not going to be an issue unless your thinking of very large TSS pellets for long range foxes or something. Having the TSS at the bottom means it isn’t hitting the forcing cone with a full payload weight behind it. It can jostle more and set back into the thicker wad section and base. I shoot the same load, with up to 137 grains of TSS in the bottom in 3 inch guns interchangeably with my 2 3/4 inch guns.

I do think that a full payload of TSS or a TSS on top Duplex is a different beast altogether and matching cartridge length is probably advisable in those circumstances.
 

I’ll pm or send through Facebook the data on the primers later on.

 

B

[Sweet11-87]

i got the cci 209 primers when i couldnt get cx2000 and i wish id waited.  when they go off i cant tell any noticilbe diffrence in performance  but they must be ever so slightly smaller as when loaded into the hulls (i use eley too) when shot wad and powder is loaded and compressed with crimp it pushes the primer back out a fraction so you end up with proud primers, nothing bads happened to me so far  but im very aware of it and i find myself cycling my pump a touch gingerly and i wont use them in a semi auto

[Bernard]

24 minutes ago, Sweet11-87 said:

i got the cci 209 primers when i couldnt get cx2000 and i wish id waited.  when they go off i cant tell any noticilbe diffrence in performance  but they must be ever so slightly smaller as when loaded into the hulls (i use eley too) when shot wad and powder is loaded and compressed with crimp it pushes the primer back out a fraction so you end up with proud primers, nothing bads happened to me so far  but im very aware of it and i find myself cycling my pump a touch gingerly and i wont use them in a semi auto

You can resize a primer pocket with a tool and a hammer. Clay and game sell the tool. You can also use a 3/8th socket extension. I’ll try to find a visor and post.
 

sometimes if I’m trying to load a really small primer like a federal in an Eley or Rio once fired, I’ll resize and I’ll also use cheap, laquer nail varnish. A quick dab inside the primer hole before priming. Sets hard and sits tight. Manufacturers do it, just not with my wife’s unused, electric pink!

[Bernard]

Here’s someone using the tool:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BCwBUzOOL5w
 

Watch this from 3:30 or so to see the socket extension version.  It’s basically applying blunt force to the base wad without a primer in the pocket. The compression of the base wad causes it to pinch the primer pocket and shrink it down a hair.

A collet type resizer will also shrink them down. I use a MEC Supersizer for my 28 bore cases.

Bernard

Edited March 22, 2023 by Bernard

[Sweet11-87]

i got the cci 209 primers when i couldnt get cx2000 and i wish id waited.  when they go off i cant tell any noticilbe diffrence in performance  but they must be ever so slightly smaller as when loaded into the hulls (i use eley too) when shot wad and powder is loaded and compressed with crimp it pushes the primer back out a fraction so you end up with proud primers, nothing bads happened to me so far  but im very aware of it and i find myself cycling my pump a touch gingerly and i wont use them in a semi auto

 

never really gave it a thought but a cheap clear nail varninsh from the poundshop may actualy get me through the pile of primers. thanks