Surviving the pay squeeze.

[oowee]

Ross Atkins on I player. Shocking stats on the £1000's of pounds the typical Brit is worse off then the Germans and the french and the Average American is 60% richer than the average Brit.

Productivity is simply woeful. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by oowee

[Mice!]

25 minutes ago, oowee said:

Shocking stats on the £1000's of pounds the typical Brit is worse off then the Germans and the french and 60 times poorer then the average American. 

I'm not even going to look, but 60 times? I very much doubt that.

[ShootingEgg]

Scare mongering BBC hey.... Shocker 

[oowee]

2 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

Scare mongering BBC hey.... Shocker 

😃 of course.

[Pushandpull]

I believe the figure was 60%, not 60 x !

[johnphilip]

So why are we not the ones  jumping on rubber inflatables  to France.

[oowee]

36 minutes ago, Pushandpull said:

I believe the figure was 60%, not 60 x !

Just rewatched that bit you are correct. My memory is 60% of what it was too. 🙂 Now corrected. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by oowee

[Lloyd90]

36 minutes ago, Pushandpull said:

I believe the figure was 60%, not 60 x !

Which is still absolutely insane… after spending 11 weeks traveling the USA last year however their wages and general state of living does seem significantly higher than over in the U.K. 

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, I watched this, seem the less well off are taking the brunt of cost of living which I suppose this has always been part of our society, even a nurse on £24,000 in Cornwall finding life difficult but a hard working care worker mum with 2 children living right on the edge, then the young lady saying what is our life going to be like after education when property prices a beyond my dreams🤔

[Stonepark]

And it all comes down to bad tax policy........

If you tax inputs (especially energy and fuel, etc) everything thereafter is expensive, and if you then tax primary income at a high rate, and manufacturing activity being already suppressed by high input costs,  no one can afford to buy stuff and therefore the whole economy suffers.

 

The USA especially has minimal taxes on fuel and energy,and federal tax rates are 24% up to £150k etc. Compared to the UK. Even adding on state taxes, you are much better of in the USA.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Stonepark

[Pushandpull]

There is a series of tweets from Ros Atkins this morning summarising much of what was in the programme.

[Westward]

5 hours ago, Stonepark said:

And it all comes down to bad tax policy........

If you tax inputs (especially energy and fuel, etc) everything thereafter is expensive, and if you then tax primary income at a high rate, and manufacturing activity being already suppressed by high input costs,  no one can afford to buy stuff and therefore the whole economy suffers.

 

The USA especially has minimal taxes on fuel and energy,and federal tax rates are 24% up to £150k etc. Compared to the UK. Even adding on state taxes, you are much better of in the USA.

That's about right in my experience having made many business trips to the USA. Per capita, Americans are also far more productive and much more loyal and co-operative with their employers, including the fact that they don't receive or expect 5 or 6 weeks paid holiday.

Also, no one will ever convince me that the majority of people working from home are anywhere near as productive. And now, the liberal loonies are trying to get a 4 day week to boot. There really is no hope without a Thatcher style PM prepared to kick some life into the non-working classes.

[Lloyd90]

29 minutes ago, Westward said:

That's about right in my experience having made many business trips to the USA. Per capita, Americans are also far more productive and much more loyal and co-operative with their employers, including the fact that they don't receive or expect 5 or 6 weeks paid holiday.

Also, no one will ever convince me that the majority of people working from home are anywhere near as productive. And now, the liberal loonies are trying to get a 4 day week to boot. There really is no hope without a Thatcher style PM prepared to kick some life into the non-working classes.

Whilst their are clearly some benefits to life and work in the USA, “Expecting” holiday leave is hardly outrageous, as well as some of the other great benefits to the U.K. system. 
 

Women in the USA paying $18,000+ on average to have a baby are then expected to be back to work within weeks and their time off doesn’t have to be paid at all 😬. 
 

I’m not surprised they’re a very productive country, it’s very much a sink or swim style, you either make it, struggle by or you are a goner. 
 

Despite all our faults, I know which country I’d rather live in. 

6 hours ago, Stonepark said:

And it all comes down to bad tax policy........

If you tax inputs (especially energy and fuel, etc) everything thereafter is expensive, and if you then tax primary income at a high rate, and manufacturing activity being already suppressed by high input costs,  no one can afford to buy stuff and therefore the whole economy suffers.

 

The USA especially has minimal taxes on fuel and energy,and federal tax rates are 24% up to £150k etc. Compared to the UK. Even adding on state taxes, you are much better of in the USA.

It’s easier to have low taxes when your public services are almost non existent. 
 

I do wonder how we would manage if we totally did away with the NHS and people were responsible for their own health and funding anything they need. 
 

The cost of the NHS last year was apparently £153 billion 😬. 
 

 

[Westward]

1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said:

 “Expecting” holiday leave is hardly outrageous,

Americans get paid holiday breaks. In my day it was 2 weeks - and they didn't like you taking more than 1 week at a time.

If I had my time again I would take the opportunity to emigrate to the USA. I dislike the controlling culture that wants to ban or limit so many of our historic rights such as free speech. I so miss the freedoms I knew back in the 50s, 60s and 70s to live and function without constant interference and regulations.

[Vince Green]

19 hours ago, oowee said:

Ross Atkins on I player. Shocking stats on the £1000's of pounds the typical Brit is worse off then the Germans and the french and the Average American is 60% richer than the average Brit.

Productivity is simply woeful. 

I find it hard to believe that the AVERAGE American is richer than the average Brit. Much less 60% richer.

Having lived in America and travelled extensively, I am aware of the crushing poverty endured by vast swathes of the population. Its not a country you want to be poor in

 

 

[oowee]

2 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

I’m not surprised they’re a very productive country, it’s very much a sink or swim style, you either make it, struggle by or you are a goner. 
 

Despite all our faults, I know which country I’d rather live in. 

 

 

Even as a left leaning centrist ( 😁) I can't help thinking that our balance is not quite right. 

[Vince Green]

3 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

. 

 

It’s easier to have low taxes when your public services are almost non existent. 

 

 

No state Pension 

No sickness benefit

No social services

No healthcare

If you lose your job you get welfare for six months and then you are on your own

Etc

Oh yeah, land of the free alright

Edited March 21, 2023 by Vince Green

[Lloyd90]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

Even as a left leaning centrist ( 😁) I can't help thinking that our balance is not quite right. 

 

What’s going wrong in your opinion? 

The current Government can’t seem to get anything right and I doubt the next one is going to be much better. 
 

 

[oowee]

6 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

What’s going wrong in your opinion? 

The current Government can’t seem to get anything right and I doubt the next one is going to be much better. 
 

 

The list of possibilities is endless but as a starter for ten we should incentivise education for target industries (maths science etc), incentivise health (tax sugar and fat , take vat off veg and subsidise fitness). Prioritise knowledge driven industry with tax breaks and subsidies. Focus on what we are want to achieve rather than what we don't want (Migrants, Brexit). Generate cash from roads, vat on consumption.

IMO main problem is first past the post voting, no consensus, no strategy, no plan. We need to scrap the monarchy and get a constitution fit for today. Without it we will get nowhere other than more extremes. 

[Stonepark]

5 hours ago, oowee said:

The list of possibilities is endless but as a starter for ten we should incentivise education for target industries (maths science etc), incentivise health (tax sugar and fat , take vat off veg and subsidise fitness). Prioritise knowledge driven industry with tax breaks and subsidies. Focus on what we are want to achieve rather than what we don't want (Migrants, Brexit). Generate cash from roads, vat on consumption.

IMO main problem is first past the post voting, no consensus, no strategy, no plan. We need to scrap the monarchy and get a constitution fit for today. Without it we will get nowhere other than more extremes. 

1st para, that is exactly where things went wrong... Tax breaks, subsidies, taxing travel, consumption, ... Government should be taxing as less as possible and industries (not being taxed to death) should be left to sink or swim on their own.

 

2nd para, for once we are in agreement... 😜We definitely need full PR!

Edited March 21, 2023 by Stonepark

[udderlyoffroad]

3 hours ago, Stonepark said:

1st para, that is exactly where things went wrong...

Glad someone beat me to it.  All of the first para is actually being done in one form or another anyway, and as ever in the UK, it's all stick, no carrot - in other words, puritanical denial for the sake of it.   Consumption is massively taxed in this country already, after tax on income has been paid.

But i'll give you schemes like: graduates in STEM subjects who work for a given period in their chosen field should have their student debt wiped.  Similar incentive for trade apprentices.

 

5 hours ago, Vince Green said:

No state Pension - It's called 'social security'

No sickness benefit  - That one I'll give you, more or less

No social services  - You're high right?

No healthcare - Medicare and Medicaid - provision can be far better than the NHS, depending on the state.  Can also be a lottery.

If you lose your job you get welfare for six months and then you are on your own - Sounds like the right balance between safety net and motivation to me

Etc

Oh yeah, land of the free alright  Preferable to this cloying nanny state.  I'd be over there in a shot, except they don't just let anyone in.

 

6 hours ago, Vince Green said:

I find it hard to believe that the AVERAGE American is richer than the average Brit. Much less 60% richer

Cost of living much lower*, more of a work ethic, less of a safety net.  If what you're measuring is how much cash the average Brit vs US citizen has in the bank at a given moment, it will obviously be the American.

 

9 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

It’s easier to have low taxes when your public services are almost non existent. 

I'll give you a clue, the difference is not that they have public services and we don't - demonstrably not true - but the Americans expect value for money and competence from their civil servants and local politicians. And will boot them out of office for failing.  Where as we in the UK just shrug our shoulders and go 'oh well'.

Edited March 21, 2023 by udderlyoffroad

[Stonepark]

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Glad someone beat me to it.  All of the first para is actually being done in one form or another anyway, and as ever in the UK, it's all stick, no carrot - in other words, puritanical denial for the sake of it.   Consumption is massively taxed in this country already, after tax on income has been paid.

But i'll give you schemes like: graduates in STEM subjects who work for a given period in their chosen field should have their student debt wiped.  Similar incentive for trade apprentices.

 

 

Cost of living much lower*, more of a work ethic, less of a safety net.  If what you're measuring is how much cash the average Brit vs US citizen has in the bank at a given moment, it will obviously be the American.

 

I'll give you a clue, the difference is not that they have public services and we don't - demonstrably not true - but the Americans expect value for money and competence from their civil servants and local politicians. And will boot them out of office for failing.  Where as we in the UK just shrug our shoulders and go 'oh well'.

👍

[Mungler]

17 hours ago, Westward said:

That's about right in my experience having made many business trips to the USA. Per capita, Americans are also far more productive and much more loyal and co-operative with their employers, including the fact that they don't receive or expect 5 or 6 weeks paid holiday.

Also, no one will ever convince me that the majority of people working from home are anywhere near as productive. And now, the liberal loonies are trying to get a 4 day week to boot. There really is no hope without a Thatcher style PM prepared to kick some life into the non-working classes.

Agree with this 100%

 

8 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Glad someone beat me to it.  All of the first para is actually being done in one form or another anyway, and as ever in the UK, it's all stick, no carrot - in other words, puritanical denial for the sake of it.   Consumption is massively taxed in this country already, after tax on income has been paid.

But i'll give you schemes like: graduates in STEM subjects who work for a given period in their chosen field should have their student debt wiped.  Similar incentive for trade apprentices.

 

 

Cost of living much lower*, more of a work ethic, less of a safety net.  If what you're measuring is how much cash the average Brit vs US citizen has in the bank at a given moment, it will obviously be the American.

 

I'll give you a clue, the difference is not that they have public services and we don't - demonstrably not true - but the Americans expect value for money and competence from their civil servants and local politicians. And will boot them out of office for failing.  Where as we in the UK just shrug our shoulders and go 'oh well'.

👍

Incidentally, we’re screwed until we get the welfare state and the NHS under control.

[discobob]

16 hours ago, oowee said:

Even as a left leaning centrist ( 😁)

Love it Grant - made me chuckle

Regarding WFH - I have spent over 20 years commuting - I now WFH for 4 to 5 days- I find I take a short lunchbreak at best and rarely finish at the end of the day - I would say the employer gets a good few hours off me for free.

When I go to the Office I have a choice of 2.5 to 3 hrs commute (round trip) or paying through the nose for Tunnels and Parking and then that is up to 2 hours round trip.

And before someone says something about taking a job with travelling - it was 30 minutes drive away with plentiful parking - the day I started they announced they were moving into the city center (edge of) with no parking.

[Vince Green]

On 21/03/2023 at 17:42, Lloyd90 said:

 

What’s going wrong in your opinion

 

 

Soft socialism has a lot to answer for. Everyone thinks they are entitled to things in this county that they simply would not get in other countries

Edited March 22, 2023 by Vince Green