Surviving the pay squeeze.

[Poor Shot]

1 hour ago, Westward said:

You can sneer all you want but the fact is that there is no real poverty in 2023 but there certainly was 70 years ago.

Work at school, pass exams with decent grades, move on to higher education and study a "proper" subject, not nonsense social studies or textile design and be prepared to to accept employment away from the old home town. Then you have a life, a career and prospects as they used to call it  and more importantly, opportunity for a better and self sufficient life.

There're no short cuts, no amount of government initiatives or "levelling up" stunts, the only thing that works is initiative and effort based on an understanding that a better life comes from encouragement and support within the family.

The one thing that is the same today as it was 70 years ago is that without education you'll always be bumping along at the bottom of the heap, except that now, there's a basket of benefits and tons of free stuff.

Complete ****.

Just because people aren't have to re-sole their shoes with cardboard or wear socks as gloves or whatever does not mean that there isn't the same level of poverty today its just that the standard of what we consider poverty has changed.

I grew up in an ex-mining village in SW valleys in the 90's and 00's. I can assure you that there are still a lot of people who exist in comparative poverty.  Families having to rely on charitable handouts and food banks to get along.

The issues run deeper than people making the choice between shopping for the week or iPhone 11 or whatever egregious comments people tend to make when discussing this topic.

 

[Rupert]

If you spend all your money straight away you will never make any headway, if you are frugal and get behind the curve putting some wool on your back you are ridiculed. 

Where are the savers? its just not fashionable any more.

[udderlyoffroad]

50 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

However, being, as I suspect, of the entitled generation you will probably poo-poo this as rubbish.

What patronising nonsense - and in any case, precisely which generation is the entitled one?  Not to mention I happen to agree with what you're telling me I will poo-poo as rubbish, namely that the BBC et al actively pursue 'poverty porn'. The very idea that some people could 'game the system' appears incomprehensible to them. 

But this Four Yorkshiremenism that's arisen on this thread is just comical - remember, a sketch written by Tim Brooke-Taylor (a boomer) about his parents bemoaning how his generation didn't know they were born.

Perhaps those of you bemoaning how the younger generations are complaining they cant afford anything, yet have the clichéd massive television and over priced coffees,  only hear the vocal ones. 

What about the ones quietly getting on with life?  You know living within their means, registry office wedding and do in the pub function room?  Maybe,  they're entitled to a vent, too, on the cost of living and level of taxation?  Or is it just the prudent boomers who get to hold forth, and tell us we've never had it so good?  You know, like your parents did?  Thought so.

Of course, I'll be be telling my kids, that we 'ad it tough.

[Mungler]

7 minutes ago, Poor Shot said:

Complete ****.

Just because people aren't have to re-sole their shoes with cardboard or wear socks as gloves or whatever does not mean that there isn't the same level of poverty today its just that the standard of what we consider poverty has changed.

I grew up in an ex-mining village in SW valleys in the 90's and 00's. I can assure you that there are still a lot of people who exist in comparative poverty.  Families having to rely on charitable handouts and food banks to get along.

The issues run deeper than people making the choice between shopping for the week or iPhone 11 or whatever egregious comments people tend to make when discussing this topic.

 

The answer is ‘never feel sorry for yourself, work harder.’

It’s not what anyone wants to hear though. 

Indeed, I just don’t see anyone bettering their lot by complaining or specifically complaining about the government. Anyone waiting for the government (whatever colour that may be) to solve their problems will have a very long and disappointing wait.

There we go. Everyone is free to disagree but it’s the unbridled truth.

.

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Mungler

[oowee]

7 minutes ago, Mungler said:

The answer is ‘never feel sorry for yourself, work harder.’

It’s not what anyone wants to hear though. 

Indeed, I just don’t see anyone bettering their lot by complaining or specifically complaining about the government. Anyone waiting for the government (whatever colour that may be) to solve their problems will have a very long and disappointing wait.

There we go. Everyone is free to disagree but it’s the unbridled truth.

.

 

I absolutely get that but set aside individuals and ask why the country is struggling to keep up. The govt sets the stage and we all play our part in the delivery. 

Any good team needs a manager with a plan. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by oowee

[johnphilip]

7 minutes ago, Mungler said:

The answer is ‘never feel sorry for yourself, work harder.’

It’s never what anyone wants to hear though. 

 

Is the right answer,  we  did not feel sorry  for ourselves , cardboard   in our shoes  or  socks for gloves,  we  just  got on with  it .

We did not expect  hand outs  , we got hand me downs . I am proud of my parents  and how they  brought us up right.   Oh and I am not a Yorkshire  man .

[udderlyoffroad]

4 minutes ago, Mungler said:

The answer is ‘never feel sorry for yourself, work harder.’

It’s not what anyone wants to hear though. 

Indeed, I just don’t see anyone bettering their lot by complaining about the government.

At the individual level, that advice has some mileage of course.

However, where we currently are, the harder you work, the more you're punished for it through astronomical levels of taxation.  I wonder if PW's membership of mostly retirees even notices that though?

The idea that we're allowed to want better from our public services, and value for money for our taxes, and at the same want the government to leave us  the hell alone as much as possible, is not somehow mutually exclusive.

[oowee]

Just now, johnphilip said:

Is the right answer,  we  did not feel sorry  for ourselves , cardboard   in our shoes  or  socks for gloves,  we  just  got on with  it .

We did not expect  hand outs  , we got hand me downs . I am proud of my parents  and how they  brought us up right.   Oh and I am not a Yorkshire  man .

So why the change of heart for the population? Why do the British 'Feel sorry for themselves'? If your parents brought you up right where did you and your generation drop the ball? 

1 minute ago, udderlyoffroad said:

At the individual level, that advice has some mileage of course.

However, where we currently are, the harder you work, the more you're punished for it through astronomical levels of taxation.  I wonder if PW's membership of mostly retirees even notices that though?

The idea that we're allowed to want better from our public services, and value for money for our taxes, and at the same want the government to leave us  the hell alone as much as possible, is not somehow mutually exclusive.

For me the fundamentals, the foundations are just not there. We have allowed the heady wealth (?) of the 70's and 80's 90's go to our heads. We have no way to get a grip so we will slowly bleed our advantage away. 

[Mungler]

11 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

At the individual level, that advice has some mileage of course.

However, where we currently are, the harder you work, the more you're punished for it through astronomical levels of taxation.  I wonder if PW's membership of mostly retirees even notices that though?

The idea that we're allowed to want better from our public services, and value for money for our taxes, and at the same want the government to leave us  the hell alone as much as possible, is not somehow mutually exclusive.

I don’t disagree. I think all governments represent appalling value and are inherently self serving and wasteful. We should involve government in our lives to a bare minimum and such that we can then enjoy small government and small taxation. 
 

10 minutes ago, oowee said:

So why the change of heart for the population? Why do the British 'Feel sorry for themselves'? If your parents brought you up right where did you and your generation drop the ball? 

I’m fine. My kids are fine. I bribed all of them to read Rich Dad Poor Dad and answer some questions with me before they got the bung.

I have encouraged all of them to take higher education as far as they will possibly go with it, only because it’s the difference between 46 years at work or 50 years at work. I have however told them that whilst it’s an achievement and a door opener it is ultimately a waste of time - my list of top 20 clients, there’s not a degree amongst them. No one got wealthy on a wage. 

1 and 2 sons are careful with their money, 3 is a work in progress 😆

Incidentally, blaming the previous generation for the current generation feeling sorry for itself - you realise how that reads? 😆

.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Mungler

[oowee]

11 minutes ago, Mungler said:

I don’t disagree. I think all governments represent appalling value and are inherently self serving and wasteful. We should involve government in our lives to a bare minimum and such that we can then enjoy small government and small taxation. 
 

I’m fine. My kids are fine. I bribed all of them to read Rich Dad Poor Dad and answer some questions with me before they got the bung.

I have encouraged all of them to take higher education as far as they will possibly go with it, only because it’s the difference between 46 years at work or 50 years at work. I have however told them that whilst it’s an achievement and a door opener it is ultimately a waste of time - my list of top 20 clients, there’s not a degree amongst them. No one got wealthy on a wage. 

1 and 2 sons are careful with their money, 3 is a work in progress 😆

Incidentally, blaming the previous generation for the current generation feeling sorry for itself - you realise how that reads? 😆

.

Not blaming anyone, simply asking the question why are we not at the top of the leader board. If you don't accept its an issue of management then where does the problem come from? Is it simply the inevitable decline that comes from previous success? 

[johnphilip]

13 minutes ago, oowee said:

So why the change of heart for the population? Why do the British 'Feel sorry for themselves'? If your parents brought you up right where did you and your generation drop the ball? 

For me the fundamentals, the foundations are just not there. We have allowed the heady wealth (?) of the 70's and 80's 90's go to our heads. We have no way to get a grip so we will slowly bleed our advantage away. 

I did not drop the ball , my 3 girls  oldest  now 50  , have all done  well , my middle daughter  went  to uni  , worked evenings and  weekends  in a supermarket  , now  runs her own curtain and soft  furnishings  . Her daughter is  following  in her footsteps  uni and part  time in a cinema  . So something has  rubbed of  .

I am not responsible  for others. Nor should I be  . How much of all these  problems  I believe  are  down to the Internet  , and what it has done to people  and there outlook on life   the  old   " want  vers  need " 

[oowee]

5 minutes ago, johnphilip said:

I did not drop the ball , my 3 girls  oldest  now 50  , have all done  well , my middle daughter  went  to uni  , worked evenings and  weekends  in a supermarket  , now  runs her own curtain and soft  furnishings  . Her daughter is  following  in her footsteps  uni and part  time in a cinema  . So something has  rubbed of  .

I am not responsible  for others. Nor should I be  . How much of all these  problems  I believe  are  down to the Internet  , and what it has done to people  and there outlook on life   the  old   " want  vers  need " 

I am sure you did a great job but somewhere along the line we lost the plot. Some of the blame must rest with us?

We have nice houses and we block more being built to protect our green belt. We demand higher pensions and make our kids pay for them. We had free Uni education but make our kids pay for theirs. We polluted the planet and make others pay for the clean up. 

[Mungler]

11 minutes ago, oowee said:

Not blaming anyone, simply asking the question why are we not at the top of the leader board. If you don't accept its an issue of management then where does the problem come from? Is it simply the inevitable decline that comes from previous success? 

Cultural changes; we’ve had it too easy for too long and it’s made everyone soft with high expectations.

[oowee]

1 minute ago, Mungler said:

Cultural changes; we’ve had it too easy for too long and it’s made everyone soft with high expectations.

Cultural changes? 

[Dougy]

Last year alone we interviewed over 600 people, spent over 5k on medicals for those that could be bothered to turn up and list a further 2.5k for those that didn't show. 

Out of those 600 none started. 

Why because they can get more money watching TV in their shell suits. Smoking weed. 

Don't start on,,,, no jobs and no money. 

There's no insensitive if you get money for sitting on your sweaty backside. 

[Mungler]

19 minutes ago, oowee said:

Cultural changes? 

Yes. When I was climbing the greasy pole it was work hard play hard.

I’ve always been office based. When I was climbing the greasy pole I worked late and weekends. I don’t have to do that now so I don’t.

My successful friends who are trades are the ones that will work their cash jobs at weekends. There are those that don’t but they have less. 

These days it’s all about work life balance and being out the door at 5 pm. Obviously, if you can do the bare minimum and get all you want and need, brilliant. 
 

18 minutes ago, Dougy said:

Last year alone we interviewed over 600 people, spent over 5k on medicals for those that could be bothered to turn up and list a further 2.5k for those that didn't show. 

Out of those 600 none started. 

Why because they can get more money watching TV in their shell suits. Smoking weed. 

Don't start on,,,, no jobs and no money. 

There's no insensitive if you get money for sitting on your sweaty backside. 

That is actually shocking.

.

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Mungler

[oowee]

9 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Yes. When I was climbing the greasy pole it was work hard play hard.

I’ve always been office based. When I was climbing the greasy pole I worked late and weekends. I don’t have to do that now so I don’t.

My successful friends who are trades are the ones that will work their cash jobs at weekends. There are those that don’t but they have less. 

These days it’s all about work life balance and being out the door at 5 pm. Obviously, if you can do the bare minimum and get all you want and need, brilliant. 
 

That is actually shocking.

.

 

So what I think you are suggesting is that the work ethic has miraculously evaporated? Why's that then? Have we spoilt our kids or somehow badly managed the situation?  

I blame mismanagement, lack of investment and our generation making others pay for our extravagance (housing and pensions). 

 

[Dougy]

39 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Yes. When I was climbing the greasy pole it was work hard play hard.

I’ve always been office based. When I was climbing the greasy pole I worked late and weekends. I don’t have to do that now so I don’t.

My successful friends who are trades are the ones that will work their cash jobs at weekends. There are those that don’t but they have less. 

These days it’s all about work life balance and being out the door at 5 pm. Obviously, if you can do the bare minimum and get all you want and need, brilliant. 
 

That is actually shocking.

.

 

They play the system to continue to receive free hand outs. And there's jack we can fo about it, they can't string a sentence together but know a dam site more about claiming benefits than I ever will. 

[Poor Shot]

10 hours ago, Dougy said:

Last year alone we interviewed over 600 people, spent over 5k on medicals for those that could be bothered to turn up and list a further 2.5k for those that didn't show. 

Out of those 600 none started. 

Why because they can get more money watching TV in their shell suits. Smoking weed. 

Don't start on,,,, no jobs and no money. 

There's no insensitive if you get money for sitting on your sweaty backside. 

You need to pay more then.

Part of the issue today is employers offering the bare minimum and expecting that people will bite their hands off for it.

I'll make some assumptions and say it was minimum wage (or close to it) factory or warehouse work that you were offering?

[Dougy]

14 minutes ago, Poor Shot said:

You need to pay more then.

Part of the issue today is employers offering the bare minimum and expecting that people will bite their hands off for it.

I'll make some assumptions and say it was minimum wage (or close to it) factory or warehouse work that you were offering?

You should know all about assuming. 

No it's not minimal wage. 

People wanting a job turn up in track suit buttons and T shirts, no attempt of respect for themselves or their potential employer. I don't expect a suit and tie just a little effort would fo me. But seems the effort is far to exausting for them just to turn up. 

[Westward]

13 hours ago, Mungler said:

If anyone wants more or better, it’s going to be down to them to do something about it, not a government.

And that is the only way!

13 hours ago, Poor Shot said:

its just that the standard of what we consider poverty has changed.

 Errr.. My point exactly.

11 hours ago, oowee said:

I blame mismanagement, lack of investment and our generation making others pay for our extravagance (housing and pensions). 

I blame parents and possibly grandparents with a poor work ethic and lack of aspiration passing it on to their children.

[Poor Shot]

2 hours ago, Dougy said:

You should know all about assuming. 

No it's not minimal wage. 

People wanting a job turn up in track suit buttons and T shirts, no attempt of respect for themselves or their potential employer. I don't expect a suit and tie just a little effort would fo me. But seems the effort is far to exausting for them just to turn up. 

Well you're clearly doing something incorrectly as an organisation if recruitment is an issue.

What is it that you are recruiting for? It would be unreasonable to expect an applicant to show up in smart clothing if you were advertising jobs driving forklifts in builders merchants yard or people work in a stables for example.

You also need to look at the resource pool your advertising in. I wouldn't ever consider making vacancies open via the local job centre if I didn't want long term unemployed and benefit scammers throwing in applications just to keep their JSA allowance going.

[Vince Green]

 

14 hours ago, Mungler said:

It’s what you measure. Compared to the 70’s and 80’s the generation today will have an expectation of living to 100 

 

And will cost the NHS an absolute fortune in the process 

[Westward]

3 hours ago, Dougy said:

People wanting a job turn up in track suit buttons and T shirts, no attempt of respect for themselves or their potential employer. I don't expect a suit and tie just a little effort would fo me. But seems the effort is far to exausting for them just to turn up. 

Yep. Seen all that and more. There's the unemployed and then there's the unemployable.

[old man]

On 21/03/2023 at 15:00, Westward said:

Americans get paid holiday breaks. In my day it was 2 weeks - and they didn't like you taking more than 1 week at a time.

If I had my time again I would take the opportunity to emigrate to the USA. I dislike the controlling culture that wants to ban or limit so many of our historic rights such as free speech. I so miss the freedoms I knew back in the 50s, 60s and 70s to live and function without constant interference and regulations.

The removal of so called rights has always been the political aim? No one in power likes the thought of a pleb having any status or leverage regarding anything?

It's also a classic tactic to create fear in the population as has just been done with the energy debacle and cost of living situation etc?

This has driven our future back 40 years? As always, money to be made when tipped off in advance of the action?