electronic collars

[darren m]

As any body used a pac collar or similar to train a blatently disobedient dog , with good and quick results.

 

Also any opinions on them good or bad , and which are good and which are rubbish.

if fact any info at all would be usefull .

thanks

Darren . :yp:

[Yorkshire Pudding]

Put it round your own neck first an press the button .

 

all the best yis yp :yp:

[lurcherboy]

:yp:

 

Go on, give it a go!

 

LB

[MadSpringer]

with good and quick results

 

Darren there are no quick fixes when it comes to training dogs!

 

Each step takes time and patience. Your Lab is still a pup (12 months?) far too young to consider using an e collar IMO.

 

Instead of spending £100 - £200 on a collar why not put it towards some one to one training with an experienced gundog trainer. They would be able to help you iron out any problems you have and give further advice on training.

 

Remember your dog is still very young, take things slowly! It can be frustrating but stick with it and you will have a better dog in the long run!

 

 

Cheers

[Fisherman Mike]

Spot on Mad.

 

My Thoughts entirely...

 

Darren your dog is Blatently disobedient for a good reason.. You need to find out what that is.

 

E Collar correction is not the answer and I hate the bloody things myself...

 

They train by associating a dog with fear or pain and are bloody draconian ( Thats just my opinion)

 

Get round the problem with patience and a system of reward and praise and you will have a better dog.

 

FM.

[ollie]

I agree with F.M. and Y.P. totally they are not a good idea :yp: . When you were a youngster and you were being disobdient, how would you have liked it if your parents put a collar round you and give you a shock everytime you were being disobdient.

I'll probably get a load of replys about how my post is wrong but I just think its not fair on the dog.

[new to the flock]

They train by associating a dog with fear or pain and are bloody draconian ( Thats just my opinion)

Darren:

 

I have to partially agree with the others: Put your time into the training, stop trying to work the dog off lead, and stop trying to do things it has not developed the basics for. Yard work is exactley that yard work. Get his basic obediance down first on lead then progress from there.

 

However now I must disagree with the others

 

 

The only thing Draconian about e collars is the people that do not use them correctly. FM this is not pointed at you just wanted to use some of your words. A proper ecollar program does not train with pain or fear. Most collars are equipted with a tone only button so the dog recieves no stimulation at all, similar to training with a clicker. A properly used collar in a proper training program teaches a dog to move away from you, come towards use, stand still, and many other aspects of training.

 

This does not mean they are a shortcut, (agreeing again), the dog must still know the basics before it is placed on a collar program. Collars are a very valuable training tool when used correctly....used incorrectly and they will ruin a dog. If you do not know what you are doing stay away from them or learn how to use them correctly. They are not meant to deliver pain.

 

When it comes to dogs there are only two ways to have a well trained animal...Pay someone to train it for you, or get off your *** and put the time in teaching it yourself.

[darren m]

PLEASE READ .

Thanks for your replys lads.

i'm not looking for an easy way out , i've been training Jack for 8 months now

( he'll be 1yr old next week).

IMO, he's being doing ok , but then i keep hiting sticking problems , as i try to move him on .

Thanks to NTTF and others, i,m now getting back on track, i went right back to the beginning and started the basics again a few months ago , he's got a great new collar ( thanks Dan) thats really helping with the heal work on lead , i'm introducing him to shot again( but this time taking it slower).

In the contolled enviroment ( field) where i mostly take him , he is great , he will recall to whistle , retrieve fur & feather dummies , sit , stay , lie down for as long as i tell him to and even stop on the thunder whistle and lie down at distance

( most of the time).

its when theres more distractions ie mainly dogs ( thinks its playtime) and people about that i have very little control over him , on his lead he cant do anything wrong , but off lead he,ll disobey , not straight away , but after a couple of seconds and repeated commands and he's away and returns at his will (not mine)

last night i was taking him out in the car i walked him out of the house at heal to the back of the car to put him in ( no lead on ) like i say he's usually fine doing this, but this time there was a large GSD and owner also walking down the avenue, i make him ( jack) sit stay and wait till the guy passes me , worked for a couple of seconds and then he just blatently disobeyed me and darted towards him

crossing the road in front of a car almost ending up splattered in the road .

Now what should i do , its not the first time hes broke command and made a b-line for another person/dog , the only thing i can think of is a collar that i can use to zap him the very moment that he brakes the command and tries to leave my side.

please tell me what you think ,i know he can obey me and always almost does , but in situations like this with other people and dogs , he's just oblivious to me.

I would just like to say that i do not hit him on return.

thanks for your help and advice

Darren .

[new to the flock]

Darren:

 

Stop getting Frustrated.... :yp:

 

You have been working hard with this dog, and you are gaining ground. However after reading your last post I think that you are missing something in the transition period. Mainly this is a transition period not a jump right in with both feet period. You are trying to go from working on lead with no distractions, to working off lead with major distractions. Back up. Jack works well on lead one on one, but works poorly off lead around others. Work Jack on lead around others for a minimum of 3 weeks. Go out and find others with dogs and have them walk their dogs around where you are working on your obediance. Sit him on lead, leave slack in the lead and have people walk their dogs by, trust me he will break and you will get to make a correction. Set him up while he is heeling, sitting, in downs etc, even his recalls just make sure he is on lead.

General rule of thumb train all exercises at least 3 times: ist with no distractions, 2nd with mild distractions, 3rd with major distractions. When Jack can perform on lead in these situations then you can look at working him off lead.

Keep it FUN

[Browning]

Darren,

 

I was having similar problems to you with Bailey, my GSP, I put it down to not being socialised enough, as NTTF said in his reply. Because I don't know many people around here with dogs, I took him off to the local dog training class for a couple of months.

 

You don't have to do everything their way, and can adapt their training methods/practices to fit in with your own favoured ways. But it worked wonders for my dog in terms of getting him used to working in and around other dogs.

 

I didn't learn anything about dog training from them, but it was definitely worth my while, and Bailey is a much steadier dog for it.

 

Cheers,

Browning

[reddeer 40]

I'm using a collar for about ten years, and I'm very pleased with it. It is like NNTF said, you have to use it correctly. As I am working with Small Munsterlanders, who are very good in front of a gun, they sometimes are to passioned and go to far away. Before I had the collar I was shouting at the dog and after a while working on the nerves of my fellow hunters. Even the dog senses the anger who was getting in my voise. Now its a big difference, a smal whistle and after not responding I give a pulse on the lowest level. From my experience I have to use it only once on a hunting day. The dog knows when he has the collar on he can not do what he wants. None of my dogs is affraid of me and they love to go hunting. use the collar correctly and you can have superb working dogs.

 

:yp:

[crowstopper]

No point in electronic collars all you need is to keep trying and in the end you will get there.

 

crowstopper

[Eric Begbie]

Darren,

 

Apart from the dangers and obvious cruelty of incorrect use, there is another huge downside to training with an e-collar. If you re-read Reddeer 40's reply above you will see that he talks about zapping with the collar while out hunting.

 

A lot of hunters in America (where methods like e-collars and Force Fetch are perfectly acceptable) find that if they train their dogs on the collar, they have to use them while hunting as well, for the very simple reason that the dog knows when the collar is not being worn and ignores commands. Some Yanks do what Reddeer 40 does and use the real collar while hunting; others use a dummy collar to try to fool the dog into believing that it is wearing the real thing. For safety reasons you should not let your dog wear any type of collar while out shooting. Go along to any shoot, test ot trial in Britain and you simply won't see any gundogs wearing collars. Its another USA/UK difference - collars (even plain fabric ones) are quite commonly worn by gudogs over the Pond. In fact, if they are hunting public land, it is mandatory.

 

It seems to me that, most of the time, Jack is doing well. Progress by easy steps towards the levels of temptation he finds difficult to resist.

 

For example, you say that, in the training field, he sits to the whistle at a distance most of the time. Most of the time is not good enough. Get that moved to 100% before attempting to move into more dificult situations. Get it 100% right at each stage before moving on to the next stage.

 

I get the feeling you are almost there. Well done.