Savings ???.

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said:

What stops people hiding their private pension

If it is a proper private 'pension', then it will be on record with HMRC because it is eligible for tax relief on making payments 'in'.  Many people (particularly those in higher tax brackets) invest in pensions because of the (40% for higher rate payers) tax relief. 

Many other forms of savings in the UK (excluding for example physical items like art, antiques etc) are documented because they have various connections into the tax system and are 'operated' by organisations/brokers who report into HMRC for things like stamp duty (property), various taxes (stocks, shares, unit trusts, bonds).  There are must less traceable forms, the obvious ones being various overseas 'offshore' holdings and crypto ........

I believe that the banks have a duty to report any 'suspicious' income/outgoings for money laundering checks, but not sure how this is done or how effective it is.  Many (most?) UK Banks now either restrict or block some or all transactions seen to be 'crypto' related.

https://www.investomania.co.uk/what-uk-banks-are-banning-crypto-buying/

Edited October 29, 2023 by JohnfromUK

[Gordon R]

My late mother lived frugally - buying cheap biscuits etc. Visited and her TV was on the blink - she wouldn't buy another. I went to Asda and bought her one the same evening. When she died it came as a shock to find out she had been saving like it was going out of fashion and had dabbled in the stock market, making a chunk of money. 

Sadly, as joint Executor of her will, I found out that my older sister has been systematically milking her money. My sister got Power of Attorney and drew the daily cash machine limit out every day for two weeks following this and it continued. Had my mother not died suddenly, it would probably have never come to light. I would have let my sister deal with the estate, as I trusted her.

Lesson learned - trust no-one where money is involved.

I think saving money is an old fashioned habit, but am as guilty as the next.

 

[Vince Green]

4 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

If it is a proper private 'pension', then it will be on record with HMRC because it is eligible for tax relief on making payments 'in'.  Many people (particularly those in higher tax brackets) invest in pensions because of the (40% for higher rate payers) tax relief. 

Many other forms of savings in the UK (excluding for example physical items like art, antiques etc) are documented because they have various connections into the tax system and are 'operated' by organisations/brokers who report into HMRC for things like stamp duty (property), various taxes (stocks, shares, unit trusts, bonds).  There are must less traceable forms, the obvious ones being various overseas 'offshore' holdings and crypto ........

I believe that the banks have a duty to report any 'suspicious' income/outgoings for money laundering checks, but not sure how this is done or how effective it is.  Many (most?) UK Banks now either restrict or block some or all transactions seen to be 'crypto' related.

https://www.investomania.co.uk/what-uk-banks-are-banning-crypto-buying/

A lot of people in this country now have another country in which they have family or cultural origins. Rather than having savings in this country they send money 'home' to invest it there.

It's comparatively easy to move money beyond the reach of HMRC. 

You only have to look at the number of shops with Western Union or similar signs outside them.  Especially in cosmopolitan areas.

I'm told ( I don't know if it's true) that one of the reasons that the Post Office stopped doing pre paid cash cards was because they were being used to move money out of the country. 

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

A lot of people in this country now have another country in which they have family or cultural origins. Rather than having savings in this country they send money 'home' to invest it there.

It's comparatively easy to move money beyond the reach of HMRC. 

You only have to look at the number of shops with Western Union or similar signs outside them.  Especially in cosmopolitan areas.

I'm told ( I don't know if it's true) that one of the reasons that the Post Office stopped doing pre paid cash cards was because they were being used to move money out of the country. 

Any money leaving our country should be taxed. 80% seems fair.

[JohnfromUK]

45 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Any money leaving our country should be taxed. 80% seems fair.

Be careful what you wish for; the UK used to have limits.  In 1966 in Harold Wilson's Labour administration you could only take £50 plus a small amount not exceeding £15 in cash.  That was all you could have as holiday money.

Exchange controls were abolished by Margaret Thatcher in 1979.  As recently as 2017 John McDonnell when shadow Chancellor hinted Labour with him as Chancellor would bring back exchange controls if Labour's policies looked like leading to a 'run on the pound'.  The Green Party's Economic Policy manifesto includes bringing back exchange controls.

Currently there are no 'controls' but sums of over £10K cash are supposed to be declared to HM Customs when crossing the border.

[Shadowchaser]

I think it's difficult to find a truly sensible balance between saving and spending. 

My grandparents passed away fairly recently (nan in Dec 21 and Grandad in Feb this year). In many ways very tight with their money. Wouldn't replace stuff like furniture or carpets and really liked to save money. On the other hand they did pay for mine and my sisters driving lessons, always had the heating on when needed and always had a kitchen full of food. 

At the other end of the spectrum we have people living in constant debt. Is that any good or sustainable? 

If you went to your nearest warehouse employing say 200 people on a normal wage and did a poll:

1. Do you have enough money to see you to next pay day?

2. Enough money to see you to next pay day and £500 - £1000 saved up?

3. Enough money for next pay day, plus 3 -6 months worth of living expenses saved up?

4. All of the above and you can buy a brand new reasonably priced car outright? 

Most of the 200 would fall into the first two categories. 

[Gordon R]

Quote

I'm told ( I don't know if it's true) that one of the reasons that the Post Office stopped doing pre paid cash cards was because they were being used to move money out of the country. 

On the money.

[Genghis]

1 hour ago, Newbie to this said:

Any money leaving our country should be taxed. 80% seems fair.

That solution seems akin to wanting to lock everyone up in prison to make sure that we lock up the criminals.

 

It’s none of the government’s business if I want to use my money abroad.

[marsh man]

We are both over our mid 70s and have a reasonable amount of savings , well reasonable to us , we are not short of anything in the house and whatever we buy we pay for it one go , by having savings we don't worry about money , think about it yes but not worry about it, the difference nowadays from when I was younger was I could always earn extra money by doing a few building jobs after tea or weekends so we always kept our heads above water , whereas nowadays once it dwindle away I am no longer in the position of making it up , we both live exactly how we want to live , neither of us are bothered about holidays and we eat well , so although we sometimes use some of the savings like me just changing my car we have enough income coming in with two state pensions and two small private ones to leave the savings alone and it's a nice feeling to have that if anything cropped up unexpected we could pay for it without having to worry about it .

[oowee]

7 hours ago, Gordon R said:

My late mother lived frugally - buying cheap biscuits etc. Visited and her TV was on the blink - she wouldn't buy another. I went to Asda and bought her one the same evening. When she died it came as a shock to find out she had been saving like it was going out of fashion and had dabbled in the stock market, making a chunk of money. 

My great Aunt had a disabled husband and each day she would go to work at a local veg shop for a few hours without her husband knowing. She only went for the company and saved all of the wage packets. When she died my mum found literally hundreds of unopened wage packets with old currency. A total of a few thousand pounds. 

2 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

Any money leaving our country should be taxed. 80% seems fair.

🤣 Where do you think your cash is invested the minute you put it in the bank? If you have some cash savings and seek the highest rate available it could literally be anywhere. Often Bank of Eire and Egypt routinely do good rates. 

[London Best]

11 hours ago, Shadowchaser said:

I think it's difficult to find a truly sensible balance between saving and spending. 

My grandparents passed away fairly recently (nan in Dec 21 and Grandad in Feb this year). In many ways very tight with their money. Wouldn't replace stuff like furniture or carpets and really liked to save money. On the other hand they did pay for mine and my sisters driving lessons, always had the heating on when needed and always had a kitchen full of food. 

At the other end of the spectrum we have people living in constant debt. Is that any good or sustainable? 

If you went to your nearest warehouse employing say 200 people on a normal wage and did a poll:

1. Do you have enough money to see you to next pay day?

2. Enough money to see you to next pay day and £500 - £1000 saved up?

3. Enough money for next pay day, plus 3 -6 months worth of living expenses saved up?

4. All of the above and you can buy a brand new reasonably priced car outright? 

Most of the 200 would fall into the first two categories. 

Good post.

Someone at work once mentioned that he could not find £1,000 for something. 
I was amazed and after discussing it we sent a clipboard questionnaire round a workshop containing 51 fairly well-paid toolmakers. 
No names were involved and only one question, “can you put your hands on £1,000 cash tomorrow”? 
The result showed only 4 people could find that sort of money, plus myself., so 10% of the workforce. 
Just to be clear, this was forty years ago.

edit:

In 1983 someone who had just passed his driving test asked me, “if you had £1,000 how much would you spend on a car?” When my answer was, “about a hundred quid”  he could not understand what I meant and asked what I had paid for the Land Rover I had recently bought, which was over £4K.  That man never had any money until I lost touch with him when we retired.

Edited October 30, 2023 by London Best

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, London Best said:

Just to be clear, this was forty years ago.

According to an inflation calculator on the internet, £1000 in 1983 is around £4200 today.

My guess is that you would find much the same situation today.

I worked with people who were quite well paid (i.e. a bit above the UK national average), but some always cut things so fine that they were always borrowing on credit cards (expensive way to borrow) and couldn't spare the cash towards months end to fill the car fuel tank.  It is just the way some people (choose?) to live.

I have always been the opposite and always had a significant 'reserve fund' in a deposit account, even when it was earning near nothing in interest.  Bad economics, but peace of mind.  The amount varied - but was a minimum of a month's, usually at least 2 or 3 months salary.

[Lloyd90]

12 hours ago, Shadowchaser said:

 

If you went to your nearest warehouse employing say 200 people on a normal wage and did a poll:

1. Do you have enough money to see you to next pay day?

2. Enough money to see you to next pay day and £500 - £1000 saved up?

3. Enough money for next pay day, plus 3 -6 months worth of living expenses saved up?

4. All of the above and you can buy a brand new reasonably priced car outright? 

Most of the 200 would fall into the first two categories. 

It depends what you consider “a normal wage”… warehouse work isn’t usually skilled work, it’s usually minimum wage unskilled Labour, so for 200 unskilled people working minimum wage jobs then I wouldn’t be surprised at all of the vast majority / every one of them didn’t have a lot of money in savings. 
 

If we’re talking skilled warehouse work on decent pay then that’s a different matter but with the cost of living, housing, kids, etc I’d still expect a lot of them to be struggling in the current climate.

I reckon the people far more likely to have a good amount of savings put away are people 50+ years of age, with grown kids/no kids or 1-2 kids (not a big family), mortgages paid off on houses they bought many years ago etc. 

[cardigun]

Whatever you do, make sure you write a will, and get a Solicitor to check it for you.

[Newbie to this]

14 hours ago, Genghis said:

That solution seems akin to wanting to lock everyone up in prison to make sure that we lock up the criminals.

How so

14 hours ago, Genghis said:

It’s none of the government’s business if I want to use my money abroad.

Absolutely, but money earned in this economy, should stay in this economy, at least a percentage of it.

14 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

Be careful what you wish for; the UK used to have limits.  In 1966 in Harold Wilson's Labour administration you could only take £50 plus a small amount not exceeding £15 in cash.  That was all you could have as holiday money.

Exchange controls were abolished by Margaret Thatcher in 1979.  As recently as 2017 John McDonnell when shadow Chancellor hinted Labour with him as Chancellor would bring back exchange controls if Labour's policies looked like leading to a 'run on the pound'.  The Green Party's Economic Policy manifesto includes bringing back exchange controls

I did not know about this, thank you for enlightening me, I shall have a read up.

13 hours ago, oowee said:

 Where do you think your cash is invested the minute you put it in the bank? If you have some cash savings and seek the highest rate available it could literally be anywhere. Often Bank of Eire and Egypt routinely do good rates. 

And when the money is drawn out, am I drawing it from Eire or Egypt, or does it get drawn from my UK bank. Not really leaving the economy is it.

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, Newbie to this said:

I did not know about this, thank you for enlightening me, I shall have a read up.

I remember my parents taking us (parents, my sister and myself) on a motoring holiday in (southern) Ireland in around mid 1960s and my parents being careful on spending.   There were no credit cards in use then, (or at least my parents didn't have any) and travel money was done by 'travellers cheques' which you cashed at a bank to get local currency and you could only take £50 worth (presumably for each parent?).   What with fuel and accommodation plus eating out - they had to watch the spending - as once that was gone, it was gone.

[Vince Green]

16 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

Be careful what you wish for; the UK used to have limits.  In 1966 in Harold Wilson's Labour administration you could only take £50 plus a small amount not exceeding £15 in cash.  That was all you could have as holiday money.

Exchange controls were abolished by Margaret Thatcher in 1979.  As recently as 2017 John McDonnell when shadow Chancellor hinted Labour with him as Chancellor would bring back exchange controls if Labour's policies looked like leading to a 'run on the pound'.  The Green Party's Economic Policy manifesto includes bringing back exchange controls.

Currently there are no 'controls' but sums of over £10K cash are supposed to be declared to HM Customs when crossing the border.

This country haemorrhages money because there are so many ways of transferring money legally 

[oowee]

2 hours ago, Vince Green said:

This country haemorrhages money because there are so many ways of transferring money legally 

This country haemorrhages cash because its mostly a poor investment choice.  The country is bent on self destruction. Even the things we are exceptionally good at (science and innovation) we have chosen to disinvest. Fortunately Sunak has just reversed the decision to leave the EU Horizon initiative so at least a glimmer of hope. 

[Genghis]

5 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

How so

Absolutely, but money earned in this economy, should stay in this economy, at least a percentage of it.

I’ve already paid tax on my earnings, why should I pay again? What right does the government have of my money? I shouldn’t have to pay because others are abusing the system.

[bruno22rf]

On 27/10/2023 at 10:20, samboy said:

Hi gang.

              It amazes me how people won't spend any money on themselves because it would mean breaking into their savings.

              What are savings for?. I can understand having a few bob stashed for emergencies but some people don't want to

              spend a bean. Then they die and leave it for someone else to spend.  Perhaps i'm missing something.

Because I grew up with s*d all, I got used to it and I'm quite happy to live on a pittance. When my time comes my 3 kids will never have to live the life that I did, simples. 

[bigroomboy]

On 28/10/2023 at 08:31, Rim Fire said:

This thread looks like i fall into this category i live in a 4 bed house own a 3 bed house in the last couple of years i have sold two houses we got no children 

i can honestly say i can put my hands on  at least  150 k in cash i own a 2019 Qashqai which i am thinking of changing  i am 69 yrs of age i want for nothing

i own 5 rifles 2 shotguns and thermal spotters thermal scopes and three other NV scopes but i don't go around just spending  we both worked hard all out lives 

we actually talking other day that we need to start spending some of our money as been stated shrouds got no pockets richest  man in the graveyard i am quite fit for my age but you never know what's around the corner and no one to leave anything to only brothers and sisters so it looks like there is a cruise on the horizon  coming 

You could easily solve all your problems with just one Boss or Purdy....

[JohnfromUK]

6 minutes ago, bigroomboy said:

You could easily solve all your problems with just one Boss or Purdy....

Then some idiot will make the ammunition for it obsolete ............

[Smokersmith]

“Work like you’re going to live forever, and play like you’re going to die tomorrow” 

A quote that sums up a fair balance to me!!

 

[Shadowchaser]

11 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

It depends what you consider “a normal wage”… warehouse work isn’t usually skilled work, it’s usually minimum wage unskilled Labour, so for 200 unskilled people working minimum wage jobs then I wouldn’t be surprised at all of the vast majority / every one of them didn’t have a lot of money in savings. 
 

If we’re talking skilled warehouse work on decent pay then that’s a different matter but with the cost of living, housing, kids, etc I’d still expect a lot of them to be struggling in the current climate.

I reckon the people far more likely to have a good amount of savings put away are people 50+ years of age, with grown kids/no kids or 1-2 kids (not a big family), mortgages paid off on houses they bought many years ago etc. 

I think a lot of trouble is caused by people at any level who live beyond their means.  A bloke I know works as a HGV driver for a large company. The bosses are earning five times what he's on, yet many are in debt, using credit cards, loans etc... He's good with money (perhaps tight) and could lay his hands on £1000 tomorrow. He doesn't think the higher ups could (unless they borrowed it). 

[dogone]

On 29/10/2023 at 05:55, Lloyd90 said:

So even if you don’t save for a private pension, once pension age you can still sign “onto welfare” and get financial support? 
 

Sort of defeats the point. 
 

What stops people hiding their private pension and signing on anyways. 

    All income of any amount Must be declared on income tax form. You can forget to declare a pension but must live with consequences if caught. A simple audit of your bank account and survey of your lifestyle will catch a lot of people. 
    Seems easy to hide income but not very. Remember the old saying: don’t steal more than you can pay back.