Baldrick Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Has anybdy recently and successfully put in an application or a variation to obtain a Section 1 shotgun on their FAC? I know that Mungler ditched his efforts to get an FAC shotgun, as Essex Police weren't too keen on the idea of such a weapon. I've had a read through previous threads, and there isn't much detail. I'd like to put in for a variation to obtain a 5-shot (minimum) semi-auto, specifically for rabbit and vermin control on the farm. I've got an arsenal of conventional shotguns and rifles, but a high-capacity shotgun would be a great asset during and after harvest, for shooting rabbits and vermin out of the tractor/combine/4x4 window. Two shots is never enough when I come across a herd of rabbits in rape stubble. It's also a serious hassle reloading an O/U or a S/S in a cramped cab, plus a synthetic Benelli/Remmie would stand up to a lot more abuse. So to cut a long story short, has anyone had their 'good reason' accepted by their FEO? What would you advise? My FEO is a very level-headed chap, but I want to do this by the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Everything you have said there is good enough reason to my way of thinking, however talk it over with your BASC/CPSA/whatever association as they will be better placed to advise you. You may have to accentuate that it will be used more than for one field once a year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Could you not have a friendly chat with your FEO before applying to get his views and suggestions on the situation? NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted November 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 I can and I will talk to my FEO tomorrow, but I know that time spent in reconnaissance is seldom wasted. It's a lot more than an annual trip to a single field, Henry, but I appreciate the point about regular need. I'm just curious if any PWers have jumped through this hoop recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr smith Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Jimsld on here got one recently,but some area like them some don't.Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 just don't mention shooting birds with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auto culto Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 just say want that one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Practical Shotgun ? I know our lot give 'em for that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Practical Shotgun ? I know our lot give 'em for that... No need club membership. My farmer's good reasons were quantity of rats and reloading issues especially at night and on a quad (fumbling and dropping carts) Stick in a variation for a .50 cal rifle - you can then trade one application off against the other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted November 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Am definitely not going to mention shooting birds with one, but I'm not a fan of the idea of Practical Shooting. Hence my sticking point. I'll let you know what the FEO says. Mungler, that's a good point about shooting rats. I've got several grain stores on my permissions, and they are obviously rat heaven. Might be worth consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Why not mention shooting birds ?. Seems a good reason to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Fox Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Yep, i did as charlie said, and no problem ! Dont mention the capacity of shots you want, just apply for sect 1 shotgun (wish i had done that!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted November 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 I haven't got my Home Office Guidance to hand, but I was under the impression that shooting birds with an FAC shotgun was a no-go. That's only my recollection though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_colt Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Why is practical shotgun viewed with such a negative light? It's the main defence to keep the guns on sect 1 and not sect 5, I doubt the vermin control users would have enough clout on their own to challenge the home office if they decided to stop issuing certs for them. UKPSA enforces a 14hr "basic" safety course before they even let people shoot on a course of fire. If people want to spend lots of cash on buckshot knocking down plate targets then who are we to question? It's this sort of disunification that makes it easy for the Government to bring in the next set of draconian firearms restrictions. You may not have an interest in that area of shooting but thats no reason to knock it. mr_colt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Why is practical shotgun viewed with such a negative light? Because everyone knows that if you put practical shotgun down on anything (be it your firearms application or under "interests and pass times on your CV") then out comes the big red stamp with "NUT JOB". I ain't knocking it at all primarily because I wouldn't want any practical shot gunners dropping out of a black ops helicopter down my chimney or commando rolling through my patio doors. Anyhows, now it's going to take me a while to rub off the red ink from my laptop screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted November 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Mr Colt, I'm not knocking Practical, I'm just saying that I'm not interested in it. I took the many opportunities I got to do things akin to (and more testing and eye-opening than) Practical Shooting when I served in the military, and I just now prefer to shoot clays or game. I can't think of a finer way to spend my time than shooting driven partridge, but you may disagree with me on that. It's a case of each to his own. I agree with you on the unity though, don't get me wrong. We're all in the same boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 I haven't got my Home Office Guidance to hand, but I was under the impression that shooting birds with an FAC shotgun was a no-go. That's only my recollection though. Well I really don't know where you got that idea from. A section 1 shotgun is treated like any other section 1 rifle, if you can show need you will get one. All this talk of practical shotgun, whatever that is, as the main reason for issue is a load of tosh. There are 100's of multi shot shotguns being used for winged vermin control. If you can convince your feo that you need one you will get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight32 Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 My feo has no problem with it- He accepts they have a good place for use in vermin control, particularly for rabbit control form a vehicle. Very handy on a vermin drive too. If you are gonna buy one if you don't have an old one to unlock capacity the escort semi can be made 8+1 for 35 quid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 I haven't got my Home Office Guidance to hand, but I was under the impression that shooting birds with an FAC shotgun was a no-go. That's only my recollection though. Well I really don't know where you got that idea from. A section 1 shotgun is treated like any other section 1 rifle, if you can show need you will get one. All this talk of practical shotgun, whatever that is, as the main reason for issue is a load of tosh. There are 100's of multi shot shotguns being used for winged vermin control. If you can convince your feo that you need one you will get it. Might be worth reading this charlie taken direct from the North Herts police firearms advice http://www.herts.police.uk/firearms_licensing/vermin.htm Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 Shooters should acquaint themselves with The Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 (WCA) and comply accordingly. Particular note should be made of the restriction imposed by Section 5, which makes it an offence to use an automatic or semi-automatic weapon which has a magazine capacity of more than two rounds, to kill any wild bird. The definition also encompasses Section 1 (Firearms Act 1968 as amended) pump-action and semiautomatic shotguns, and any rifles whether bolt-action, pump-action or semiautomatic, with such magazines, including air weapons. However, a person will not be guilty of this offence if they have obtained a specific licence for themselves from the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) - 0845 601 4523 (general enquiries). Any person committing this offence may also commit an offence of failing to comply with the conditions of his/her firearm certificate if he/she is only authorised for vermin control. Any landowner giving permission to anyone who does not hold the appropriate DEFRA licence to use a Section 1 shotgun or any rifle with a magazine capacity of more than two rounds for such activities, will also commit an offence under Section 5. The shooter does not need to have even taken a shot. If he/she is in possession of such a weapon with the intention of shooting wild birds, he/she commits an offence under Section 18 WCA, which is treated as if the offence had actually been committed. On conviction, a court can order the forfeiture of anything used to commit the offence, including firearms or even vehicles (Section 21 WCA). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted November 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 al4x, thanks for rooting that out. I knew that my lingering doubt had some substance, although I'm unsure whether a woodie or magpie constitutes a wild bird. The FEO's answer was simple: "having a shotgun on an FAC is not a problem". So in goes my variation. Many thanks for the advice and discussion, chaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 I'm guessing it does as I'm sure its not the general license they are talking about for vermin. I assume if you can proove you've a serious vermin problem then they can grant another license. Sounds like a lot of agro to me especially as I assume you'll have other restrictions land wise unless you have an open firearms license. To me I usually have two shots with the semi then re-load as its easier to just keep stuffing shells in the bottom, and really I rarely need more than 3 shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted November 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 I have a Remmie 11-87 with a crimped mag tube, and I found that during and after harvest, that I needed a lot more than 3 shots when shooting rabbits from the tractor cab. And I'm a good shot. There are just a LOT of rabbits to shoot as soon as the combine goes through the fields. I read somewhere that a pair of rabbits can (directly and via their offspring) produce up to 95 offspring in the course of a year. Not an appealing thought... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 al4x The license mentioned is infact the "general license" which we all use to control crows etc which specifically authorises the use of section 1 shotguns and rifles for the control of "pest species" on the list. This is how we are all able to shoot crows with our rifles and section 1 shotguns. My main reason for having an 8 shot shotgun is for the control of winged vermin. Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggone Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Notwithstanding this, the Secretary of State for the Environment issues an official decree every two years which amounts to an exemption from the usual prohibitions placed on the killing of specific species of wild birds with Section 1 shotguns. The following thirteen species are at the moment included in this exemption: Crow Collared Dove Great Black-backed Gull Lesser Black-backed Gull Herring Gull Jackdaw Jay Magpie Feral Pigeon Rook House Sparrow Starling Wood Pigeon There are many species of animals which are protected - far too many to list here. They are all included in The Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 and it is every shooter's responsibility to ensure that they do not kill or harm such species. Taken from Herts Police guidance from above link, dated 2007 at the bottom. Aren't they a bit out of date with the list??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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