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Shotgun Licence ??Refusal??


rhodes
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I was recently dragged to a clay shoot with my father-in-law. I LOVED it!!!

 

I promptly applied for my licence, wanted it QUICK!!

 

Now, I have over the past few years suffered from anxiety in social situations. Nothing too bad, no time missed off work, no sucidal tendancies, nothing like that, just feeling uncomfortable in groups of people. Never depression, just anxiety. I have visted the doc for it, he put me on some pills which sorted me out.

 

In the spirit of honesty I mentioned I mentioned it on my application.

 

When the guy came to the house for the 'chat' he said there is very little chance ideed of me getting the licence because I mentioned the anxiety on the form.

 

I'm gutted. It's a new hobby which I love.

 

Any advice anyone? Surely there must be some people who have had similar issues and still got a licence. Are there any examles?

 

If they do refuse (And the guy was pretty clear they would - he even gave me my photo's back!) what's the best way to appeal?

 

thanks everyone

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a freind of mine was on some prety heavy antidepresants already had a shotgun cert but then decided to go for his fac.was refused due to the depresion/anxiety thing but revisted his doctor and asked to be weaned from them. waited only two months before reaplying and guess what he was granted his fac.

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Guest The Outlaw

He should have at least let your application be processed, and not given you your pics back.

Move house and re-apply in a different area, get ticket and then move back again?

Bit of a sod that one ma.

Tony

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ah good, it's not a dead los then.

 

I'll see what they say if they refuse. If they do I'll come off the pills.

 

Seems a strange policy to me......

 

If you're on pills to control depression you can't have a licence

 

If you come off the pills which are controling the depression then you can!!

 

crazy!!

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I am all for new people starting shooting (welcome to the forums and shooting in general!), I hope this doesn't seem harsh, but it is relief to see that the police forces are not just handing out licenses out willy nilly. I am sure you will be able to over time get a shotgun certificate. I know one person who was refused because they had epilepsy (albeit no incidences for 40 years).

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just feeling uncomfortable in groups of people.

to be honest mate,what you you have said to a person who wants a gun,and tells you this.

 

the foe,s job is a tuff one, and if he makes a mistake, you know the rest.

appeal will be mega bucks,and must be made within 21 days ( i think)of refusale.

 

but first you must wait there reply, and take it from there.

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Rhodes

 

They will have to write to your doctor and should be guided by him/her. I think they are probably trying to browbeat you, making you think you have no chance. Bide your time and keep us informed of progress. It may be an idea to pre-empt them and pay a visit to your doctor for a chat.

 

Good luck

 

P

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I'll see what they say if they refuse. If they do I'll come off the pills.

it might be a bit to late for that, look at it from the view of the police.

 

If you're on pills to control depression you can't have a licence

 

If you come off the pills which are controling the depression then you can!!

 

in you first post you said you dont have depression,had you been on medication for depression you might have got it, as other people have.

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Its a shame you could try joining BASC and see if they can help.

 

In the mean time have a flick through this, you need Acrobat reader (you can download it free) and pay attention to page 53 - 70 ish it may provide you with grounds to appeal or re-apply

 

http://www.basc.org.uk/media/ho_guidance.pdf

 

 

 

this also may be some help but you may need to chery pick the info from it

 

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/c...aff/95/9505.htm

 

 

 

Im sure there are some very knowledgable people on here who may be able to shed some more light.

 

Admitedly i do not know your medical history but i hope all goes ok, and if you are allowed a cert then they give you one.

 

Good luck

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Unfortunatly you made the error of being more open with the police than you legally have to be. Any application here there are possibly contentious issues have to be on the defensive. Moving area will make no difference as you are now required to state you have been declined a cert in any future applications.

 

The new licensing sytem will put a record on the PNC that you were declined so there is no way round it. Your probably one of the many people who have been declined due to a total lack of police understanding. One red flag and they will run a mile.

 

You need to make sure that your GP will be onside in any future applications. Anxeity in crowded situations is probably something a lot of rural people experience; if it was not on your med records then perhaps it could have denefited from some defensive tact.

 

I can only suggest joining the BASC and getting their advice on it. Some people are on anti-depressants for a whole vareity of reasons including functional diseases. People with Fibromyalgia are prescribed them to ease muscle pain. Unfortunatly the police just see anti-depressants and run a mile. I can only suggest you seek the advice of a solicitor.

 

David Barrington Barnes is a firearms law specialist: http://www.shootinglaw.co.uk

Hopefully he can give you advice as to whether it is worth taking it to appeal.

 

If not then it may be better to be weened off the anti-depressants and apply again in a year or so. Preferably with GP support that you havent had any more problems since. Unfortunatly unlike most countries in the world; the police have so much discretion and it is an uphill battle to prove them wrong.

 

Good Luck,

 

mr_colt.

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Everyone gets 'depressed' at some time or other. I used the word 'anxiety' ('suffered from in my youth') in my application. No probs at all.

What you have to think about is a young soldier:

 

'I'm anxious and depressed Sgt. Major...'

 

'B*****ks! Pick up that gun an' get marching!'

 

If it's good for him it's good for you!' I'm sorry, but it's a 'job's worth' thing with doctors and Chief Constables.

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Or are you taking something else like Benzos? (Diazepam, Temazepam etc)

 

It doesnt look good from the outside but; if you can get your GP to fully support your fitness to hold a cert. You may have a chance. If not granted anyway with a supporting GP you have a shot at a sucessful appeal.

 

This presumes that the symptoms are fairly mild. as you have said.

 

mr_colt.

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Are you or are you not taking Anti Depresents?

 

I say speak to the Doctor he knows your condition and I think that the FAO should of processed the certificate and got an opineon from the Doctor.

 

But if you are taking the pills still, get of them quick and apply for a certificate a year after you have stopped taken them.

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If you are currently on antidepresants i dont think you will be granted a certificate any time soon. Get off them when you are able and leave it for some time.

 

The police have a responsibility to ensure that certificate holders are of sound mind, and to tell them that you have some issues which are current will flag you up as unsuitable.

 

The police asume that people with a history of depression may at some time be suicidal, and if in possession of firearms will use them to that end.

 

Lots of people have had depression at some time either through trauma, or chemical imbalance. But if a period of time has passed since a bout of it then you may well be granted a certificate. Plenty of other have.

 

If you chose to fight their decision at this time they may consider that you are not taking their concerns seriously and are not a sensible individual anyway.

 

I may be giving advice you dont want to hear, but if it were me i`d sort myself out, get off the medication, and leave it a while before applying again. When you apply eventually, they will know of your history, the fact that it is a thing of the past, and you were sensible enough to leave it a proper amount of time.

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You say on your first post "never depression"

 

Then your second post"if your on pills for depression you cant have a license"

 

Maybe a slip on your behalf,or maybe there is more to it than that and a comment like "if they dont give me a license then i will come of the pills" imo just gives justification to the police for not granting you a license.

 

I think that you should sort yourself out before re-applying.

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I'm no legal expert, but; you've had the visit and the FEO has given you your photos back, has he spoken to your Doctor yet? Has he taken up any independent advise on your conditional needs?

 

This doesn't sound like a fair and impartial process.

 

This, lifted from an earlier thread, may help with prepping your doctor:

 

There should be no problems so long after the event but stick to the basics and dont go into detail or exoplanations.

 

Also write to your doctor BEFORE you send in your application with a letter something like this. (This is based on a BASC suggestion)

 

Dear Doctor XYZ,

 

I am in the process of applying for a Shotgun Certificates and it is now a requirement that I give the police the name and address of my Doctor.

 

It is possible that the police may contact you and ask you to provide factual details of my medical history. The Home Office has advised that that is all they may ask and that is all they have my signed authority for. They may under no circumstances have access to my medical records nor are they to ask you for an opinion on my suitability to possess firearms.

 

The Home Office has also said that the police should only need to contact Doctors where there are genuine concerns about an applicant’s health and that if there is a charge for supplying the information it must be paid by the police.

 

Any request to you from the police will inevitably concern confidential, privileged and personal information. I should therefore be most grateful if you would copy to me any report you may make to the police and also keep me informed of the details of any other contact you may have with them concerning my application. Any charges for this aspect will of course be covered by myself.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

NMNMNM

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In the meantime you can borrow a gun of your F-I-L and shoot it in his company :good:

 

mmmm maybe not...as I understand it; 'You may only lend a Shot gun to someone without a certificate if you are with that person, on land of which your are legally the occupier OR if you are at a clay pigeon shoot where the Chief Constable has granted special permission to allow non-certificate holders to shoot'.

 

On another point...'It is the right of every citizen to have a Shotgun Certificate granted unless the chief police officer believes there are grounds to stop you from having one. He must make these grounds clear in the case of a refusal. A past conviction for a serious crime or medical grounds may be some reasons'.

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Its a difficult one and I actually think the FEO is right. I've had two friends who got depression after being granted tickets who took their own lives with their shotguns. Tragic and not something the FEO could know about, he is actually acting in your best interests as well as one of public safety. You've declared it which you legally have to do and its pretty straight forward that if you are suffering or have a history of any form of mental illness that a license isn't granted. The FEO has been straight up and it looks like will go through the application process at which time you can decide whether to fight it or not.

What I would say is don't just come off the medication as its imperative that you get yourself right rather than focus on getting something at the detriment of your health. If its helping things keep on with it and come off it when you are ready.

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Basc may help on this one, but as others say you would have to prove you are of sound mind and unfortunatly only a doctor can declare this to be true. so your best bet is speak to your doctor- get him/her to say that you no longer have any anxity 'issues', then procede with your application.

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I had similar issues when I last renewed and sent the same/similar letter that LEFTY posted and after a chat with the FEO got my renewal and a slot for a 6.5x55 and sound mods for 2 cf rifles. The BASC were ready to step in too as I had phoned them and they were prepared to either be with me when the FEO called or to phone him and discuss any issues that may have arisen.

 

if you want to discuss this further you can PM me in confidence.

 

Hd.

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I would suggest a couple of things ....

 

1 consider accepting the confidential help (remember this is a public forum) including BASC

2 make sure your doctor (who may change) writes in your records only what is necessary and what you are happy with.

3 make sure your doctor writes any improvement down and the final OK when it all clears up. You really want your medical notes to state it is cleared up as soon as possible.

4 be careful what you say.... tell the truth and only as far as you are required to do so.

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I feel that you're application forms and photographs should still have been taken by the the FEO and processed SUBJECT TO a medical report from you're GP, which would almost certainly be asked for given you're medical history, the FEO can make an initial judgement of you're character at the interview stage BUT I would assume he is not a medically qualified practitioner.

I would appeal.

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